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Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:55 AM   #151
henchman
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Why do other countries have no problem providing healthcare to thir citizens.

We need to stop dumping our countries wealth into an out of control military system.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:04 AM   #152
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Why do other countries have no problem providing healthcare to thir citizens.

We need to stop dumping our countries wealth into an out of control military system.
We get taxed for nhs services as national insurance add tax on top and it's 25% plus employer contributions. Would you prefer that? I don't know how much tax you guys pay in that respect but national insurance for me is a rip off as I have and use my private health care.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:16 AM   #153
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We get taxed for nhs services as national insurance add tax on top and it's 25% plus employer contributions. Would you prefer that? I don't know how much tax you guys pay in that respect but national insurance for me is a rip off as I have and use my private health care.
If I wanted comparable healthcare that I receive through my union, it would cost me over $1000 a month. And I'm in the 35% tax bracket.

How much does your dental cost you? And what is your deductible.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 02:15 AM   #154
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We get taxed for nhs services as national insurance add tax on top and it's 25% plus employer contributions. Would you prefer that? I don't know how much tax you guys pay in that respect but national insurance for me is a rip off as I have and use my private health care.
If you remove the public option then you'll have millions (or in the case of America) 10's of millions of people that cannot afford insurance. They'll go to the ER for everything from a cough to a concussion because ERs can't turn people away. If these people can't afford health insurance odds are they can't pay the ER bill either which means hospitals will jack up the cost of treatment to people with insurance to cover the cost of treating people without insurance.

What you end up with is basically a form of universal health insurance delivered in the most expensive, least efficient way possible. Even though you don't like paying taxes to suppor the NHS plus the cost of private insurance it most likely is cheaper than the alternative. It's kinda like people without kids complaining about their taxes going to the local school system and not realizing that an educated populace benefits everyone (not to mention areas with good schools are typically more desirable which ads value to your home when you look to sell).
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:58 AM   #155
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My sister in holland pays roughly 50 euros a month for full nAtional healthcare coverage. And that includes dental.
I think tis 50. It could be 15. But not more than 50.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 11:58 AM   #156
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If I wanted comparable healthcare that I receive through my union, it would cost me over $1000 a month. And I'm in the 35% tax bracket.

How much does your dental cost you? And what is your deductible.
Again depends if your an nhs patient or private. I'm covered privately through work getting 85-100% back
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:29 PM   #157
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Again depends if your an nhs patient or private. I'm covered privately through work getting 85-100% back
So fr clarification, hw much does the nhs cost you?
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:45 PM   #158
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How is this a lame excuse? It’s really happening and it’s affecting thousands of hard working Americans. Total fail for Obama.
Un huh. Time for a reality check. The majority of people voted for Obama. He campaigned on his healthcare plan in 2008 and was elected. Then unlike a lot of politicians, he actually did what he said he would do...he implemented it. And with all the talk of people hating it, guess what? in 2012, he was reelected. So no...that is not a total fail. What is a total fail is the way we have been doing healthcare. No changes would have been necessary if it was working to begin with. Clearly it was not.

Oh...and if you want to see an actual total fail, look to the guys that ran against Obama in both 2008 and 2012. Now THOSE are total fails.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:04 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Gav2k View Post
We get taxed for nhs services as national insurance add tax on top and it's 25% plus employer contributions. Would you prefer that? I don't know how much tax you guys pay in that respect but national insurance for me is a rip off as I have and use my private health care.
As compared to what we pay for health care? Hell yes, I'll take what you have.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:08 PM   #160
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As compared to what we pay for health care? Hell yes, I'll take what you have.
+1 on that.

Everyone here is aware that the USA pays twice the average of the rest of the world with far worse outcomes right? Why prop up a clearly broken system when it is one of the few major logistical problems horribly hampering our ability to embrace the 21st century.

Think about how productive business can be without having to worry about medical costs, because we are all in it together thus taking the advantages of scale.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:12 PM   #161
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So fr clarification, hw much does the nhs cost you?

Band 1 course of treatment – £17.50
This covers an examination, diagnosis (including X-rays), advice on how to prevent future problems, a scale and polish if needed, and application of fluoride varnish or fissure sealant.
Band 2 course of treatment – £48.00
This covers everything listed in Band 1 above, plus any further treatment such as fillings, root canal work or removal of teeth.
Band 3 course of treatment – £209.00
This covers everything listed in Bands 1 and 2 above, plus crowns, dentures and bridges.

I'm not covered on the nhs as its a pain to get covered due to limits spaces.

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As compared to what we pay for health care? Hell yes, I'll take what you have.
Hmm do you get treated straight away? Nhs has waiting lists even for bloody cancer
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:17 PM   #162
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I must admit that I do prefer our system. I pay my taxes. If I get sick, I get treated.

(Very oversimplified, and our system is far from perfect)
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:18 PM   #163
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Hmm do you get treated straight away? Nhs has waiting lists even for bloody cancer
Yes, because we need to take the cookie cutter approach from other countries and directly follow those models.

This is America, the land of taking others ideas and making them greater. As long as there is political will to not purposely set up a flawed system, and the voters push hard enough, there is no reason we cant do it.

Look at how we implemented massive programs such as the GI bill after WWII, we can do great things when the will is there.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:24 PM   #164
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Hmm do you get treated straight away? Nhs has waiting lists even for bloody cancer
We have wait lists too depending. My grandfather had to have a cancerous tumor removed and it took 4 months to get the surgery once they confirmed it was cancer.

Most doctor appointments is about a month or so, depending some are longer than others. We have walk in clinics for same day type stuff but basically it means you sitting in a waiting room for 2-4 hours to see a doctor.

For some health insurances, it may take you a month to see a doctor who then has to refer you to a specialist that can take another month or 2 to see the specialist. My insurance (which costs me personally around $250/month - dental not included) is a bit better as I can just call a specialist. Appointment costs vary but everything except preventative care costs me $20/visit at a minimum. Preventative care (yearly physical and such) are included.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:39 PM   #165
henchman
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Originally Posted by Gav2k View Post
Band 1 course of treatment – £17.50
This covers an examination, diagnosis (including X-rays), advice on how to prevent future problems, a scale and polish if needed, and application of fluoride varnish or fissure sealant.
Band 2 course of treatment – £48.00
This covers everything listed in Band 1 above, plus any further treatment such as fillings, root canal work or removal of teeth.
Band 3 course of treatment – £209.00
This covers everything listed in Bands 1 and 2 above, plus crowns, dentures and bridges.

I'm not covered on the nhs as its a pain to get covered due to limits spaces.


----------



Hmm do you get treated straight away? Nhs has waiting lists even for bloody cancer

Wow, I want your dental plan. Anything over $2000 a year ( which is anything over a filling) I have to pay for.

How many people in the UK have to file bankruptcy because of health costs?
How many people end up losing coverage, because they reached their lifetime limit, and now have to pay for everything themselves?

How many elderly have to spend a fortune for their own meds?
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:40 PM   #166
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Hmm do you get treated straight away? Nhs has waiting lists even for bloody cancer
No, we don't get treated right away. That's a big lie someone keeps selling. You know what we do get though? Big headaches from our insurance companies who will pre-approve a procedure, then deny the claim after the procedure is performed. People go bankrupt over such things here.

Do you have that?

BTW- your dental plan is awesome.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:49 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Gav2k View Post
Band 1 course of treatment – £17.50
This covers an examination, diagnosis (including X-rays), advice on how to prevent future problems, a scale and polish if needed, and application of fluoride varnish or fissure sealant.
Band 2 course of treatment – £48.00
This covers everything listed in Band 1 above, plus any further treatment such as fillings, root canal work or removal of teeth.
Band 3 course of treatment – £209.00
This covers everything listed in Bands 1 and 2 above, plus crowns, dentures and bridges.

I'm not covered on the nhs as its a pain to get covered due to limits spaces.

----------



Hmm do you get treated straight away? Nhs has waiting lists even for bloody cancer
My dad had about a two month wait in the states to get treatment for prostate cancer - granted, some of that time he spent reviewing his options with different doctors and deciding which treatment he wanted. Luckily prostate cancer is slow growing and the two month wait between diagnosis was not going to hurt his chances of recovery, and a year and a half later he's cancer free. Unluckily, the insurance he gets through his employer is crap and he was stuck with a $20,000 bill for treatment.

I find it hard to believe that in the UK or any country with UHC that if you were diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer, and the difference between starting treatment today and treatment next week could be the difference between life or death, they would make you wait.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:53 PM   #168
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Wow, I want your dental plan. Anything over $2000 a year ( which is anything over a filling) I have to pay for.
Yeah, I think when I had a root canal, with insurance, it cost me about $2,000.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 02:26 PM   #169
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No, we don't get treated right away.
I'm sure if you pay enough money you will get treated right away. Which is the crux of the problem. I do think that top flight health care in the U.S. is probably the best in the world but very few can afford it. For example, how many people can do what Jobs did and fly around the country seeing multiple specialists on short notice in order to get on multiple organ donor lists?

One time I broke my arm in the US, had to get put under for them to set it and my insurance got billed about $8,000 for an outpatient visit that took a few hours. Another time I broke two bones in my hand while staying England. I went to the ER and eventually had surgery, a two night stay in the hospital and a handful of followup and rehab visits. Since I was not a UK citizen and I was in the country less than 6 months only my initial ER visit was covered by NHS. The surgery, hospital stay, meds, follow up visits and rehab were all out of pocket costs to me to the tune of about $2,000 (I had to fight with my insurance company to reimburse me). I imagine if I'd broken my hand in the U.S. the bill would've been $15,000 - 20,000.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 03:05 PM   #170
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I'm sure if you pay enough money you will get treated right away. Which is the crux of the problem. I do think that top flight health care in the U.S. is probably the best in the world but very few can afford it. For example, how many people can do what Jobs did and fly around the country seeing multiple specialists on short notice in order to get on multiple organ donor lists?
Not only that but he was able to hop on a plane the second a liver became available.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 05:46 PM   #171
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No, we don't get treated right away. That's a big lie someone keeps selling. You know what we do get though? Big headaches from our insurance companies who will pre-approve a procedure, then deny the claim after the procedure is performed. People go bankrupt over such things here.

Do you have that?

BTW- your dental plan is awesome.
It kind of depends on the coverage you have. The more expensive coverage the more flexibility. I think going with private in the Uk affords the same, of course at that point you are outside the Nhs and paying either out of pocket or private insurance.

But i agree with you in general, dealing with insurance here is crazy.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:43 AM   #172
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It kind of depends on the coverage you have. The more expensive coverage the more flexibility. I think going with private in the Uk affords the same, of course at that point you are outside the Nhs and paying either out of pocket or private insurance.

But i agree with you in general, dealing with insurance here is crazy.
The info I posted for dental was nhs patients. I'm not on the nhs so I have to pay private fees which are a lot more but due to my cover through work I get it back.

As for nhs waiting times all I do is call my private healthcare line and I get seen straight away so maybe it's a bit fk'd in the us
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:06 AM   #173
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The info I posted for dental was nhs patients. I'm not on the nhs so I have to pay private fees which are a lot more but due to my cover through work I get it back.

As for nhs waiting times all I do is call my private healthcare line and I get seen straight away so maybe it's a bit fk'd in the us
Healthcare in the US is [****] when it comes to insurance.
At least when you are unemployed, or a job that doesnt provide health insurance, you have the NHS. Here,,people have nothing, if they can't afford it. And proper insurance, that will prevent you from going bankrupt in case of a major issue, will cost you at least $500 a month.

Last edited by balamw; Nov 21, 2012 at 11:27 AM. Reason: profanity
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:22 AM   #174
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Healthcare in the US is [****] when it comes to insurance.
At least when you are unemployed, or a job that doesnt provide health insurance, you have the NHS. Here,,people have nothing, if they can't afford it. And proper insurance, that will prevent you from going bankrupt in case of a major issue, will cost you at least $500 a month.
I read somewhere that more than 60% of private bankruptcies (not sure if spelled correct) in the US are due to medical treatments and the involved costs.

Sorry for no link, but it would be in German, so not that helpful either. It originally comes from the American Journal of Medicin, though.

Last edited by balamw; Nov 21, 2012 at 11:28 AM. Reason: profanity
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:25 AM   #175
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I read somewhere that more than 60% of private bankruptcies (not sure if spelled correct) in the US are due to medical treatments and the involved costs.
That is absolutely true.
And remember. People don't CHOOSE to get sick, or have an accident.

Losing everything you've worked for your entire life, due to illness is unacceptable.
Which is why the US needs a proper, national healthcare system
Take the money out of the bloated military budget, that benefits only wealthy military contractors and weapons manufacturer era.
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