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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:16 PM   #51
Eithanius
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Originally Posted by dyn View Post
That way of doing it was the number 1 rant on this board when SL came out. Loads of people disliked that way of doing it and they were even going as far as porting the Leopard or Lion Expose version to Snow Leopard.
True... But take a closer look again... this time Expose on Leopard vs Mountain Lion... You'll see what I mean...
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:17 PM   #52
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I don't get why people likes SL so much and thinks that Lion and ML are junk. I love to use Multi-touch gestures on my Mac, it makes things so much easier. I love Mission Control as well, and the ability to add multiple desktops and see all the windows in one flick is just something that I can't do on Windows. Apple is not adding a touch screen to their computers and forcing everybody to use their touch interface or anything. I think that the iOS features are a great addition to the Mac, not a replacement like Windows 8.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:21 PM   #53
r.harris1
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Originally Posted by wikus View Post
I wouldn't call anything non-mobile from Apple a 'full blown computer' seeing how that term could only be relevant to the Mac Pro line which it in itself has been a complete disaster for the last 4 years, Apple has effectively ignored professionals and catered to the iToy crowd.

Yeah, I get it that its a business and Apple doesnt care about consumers as much as they do about profits, but that doesnt take away from my distaste for their new business model or OS X's progress... for professionals, its been a terrible experience with Apple for the last while.
"for professionals" - I'm a professional. ML works great at the OS level, my experience across devices is much more consistent (because I have to travel) and the experience continues to improve. For my work (software development), ML continues to exceed my expectations and deliver performance, functionality and usability for all of the different environments I need to work in, including Windows-via-Parallels. My gripes with the OS tend to be around things that OS X has under-delivered on for years - i.e. Corporate integration and a Calendar implementation I'd love to throw across the room. For my play/hobby (Photography / Music) ML also continues to deliver. There's nothing that I did in SL that I can't do now and now there's better integration across my devices. Again, I travel.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and you seem to share the same essential post any time you get the opportunity, to refer to mobile devices as iToys is cute and overused, but also inaccurate. They are exceedingly powerful in the right hands. And combined with a powerful mac of whatever variety, I can personally do more across more environments than I can with Windows or Linux (and I use both every day - from OS X).

ML isn't perfect, but neither was SL. ML is also a transitional OS. While Microsoft went to a combined mobile/desktop OS in one go with Windows 8, Apple is taking a more staged approach, but as you and others have pointed out, it is happening and will continue to do so. It only makes sense and is nothing to freak out about. It's a good thing and isn't the end of the world.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:21 PM   #54
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I kept 10.6.8 SL on my old 2007 Macbook, still runs great.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:39 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by wikus View Post
... Also, get rid of versions.
You don't like versions? Turn it off. http://osxdaily.com/2012/07/11/disab...s-in-mac-os-x/
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:39 PM   #56
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I agree that Mission Control is garbage compared to Expose, but other than that it seems like ML is far better than SL.

Only issue I can think of is Messages... on a regular basis it'll take up 2 GB of RAM, and I only have 3 GB in my computer. Does anyone else have issues with it being a memory hog?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:56 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wikus View Post
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.
I disagree, I don't see the whole 'ipadification' as such a bad thing. I just don't use it. But to me it doesn't make it bloatware that it's in there.

further, I hated Expose and Space and thought they were a cumbersome mess. And I love Versions.

And I certainly prefer Mountain Lion's iCloud document support over that hot mess that was syncing in Lion.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikus View Post
I wouldn't call anything non-mobile from Apple a 'full blown computer' seeing how that term could only be relevant to the Mac Pro line
So I just edited 20 hours of green screen footage for digital matte compositing (on a major motion picture I'm not at liberty to name) on a "toy" as I was using an iMac and not a Mac Pro to link to my render farm.

Thanks for that heads up.

Different people have different needs and just because they don't need what you think they should have or do what you think they should be doing doesn't make them any less professional or their chosen rigs any less a 'real computer'. Put your ego back in your pants and move on. Use what you want and let the rest of the world do the same.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by koban4max View Post
Why the hell won't Apple release icloud apps like message and notes via app store? I mean for those who won't move beyond SL.
iCloud doesn't work on Snow Leopard.

Apple is only releasing this back into the store in such an easy to order way because of folks potentially getting iPads and iPhones for the holidays. but make no mistake, their intention is that it will be a path for folks to get Mountain Lion to use things like iCloud.

Apple has always been about folks getting to the latest software and hardware as soon as possible. That's why they don't back support any further than they have to. That's why they finally dropped PowerPC support from the OS (to get those folks to move to Intel machines), and so on. It's easier for them to train their support teams when the options are more limited. Which is why they also don't OEM their software to other hardware makers. And don't ever expect that to change because it is the only 'Steve did it' that is likely to stick.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:04 PM   #58
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Just so you know, you can get back the old expose under ML.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:11 PM   #59
Stella
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Originally Posted by The Bulge View Post
Where's your proof?



It's a useful feature where before there was none. Saved me more than once.

All in all ignorant and baseless post.
Apple should give the option for versions to be turned off.. even if its a hidden feature. I would have used this looong ago the day I got Lion.

For me, and others, Versions is a PITA.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by wgnoyes View Post
You don't like versions? Turn it off. http://osxdaily.com/2012/07/11/disab...s-in-mac-os-x/
Ah cooool...!
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:23 PM   #60
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I'm new to this and working with Lion but have Mountain Lion and never installed. Now here comes again SL and now I am wondering to upgrade to Lion or can I downgrade to SL that's in the store? I would love to try something different.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:32 PM   #61
sazivad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wikus View Post
…bring back Expose to what it used to be.
This is pretty close to the original Exposé. You can also still do App Exposé with this.
Quote:
Also, get rid of versions.
Try this.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:34 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by wikus View Post
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.
i love versions. why wouldnt i want to be able to go back in time w/ my docs?

and i also really enjoy the cloud sync stuff w/ the OS and my idevices. notes, lists, messages...love them. adds more value to my time.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:39 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by r.harris1 View Post
I'm a professional. ML works great at the OS level, my experience across devices is much more consistent… [and] ML continues to exceed my expectations for my work…
Exactly. You can't go around saying that ML is bad for pros because it's unprovable. It's all about opinion.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:40 PM   #64
class77
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I just want back the old "Saved As" format as seen in SL, not the convoluted "saved as" the new ML. That goes for pictures and docs. I want to determine when and in what format a piece of information is saved, not the machine.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:42 PM   #65
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Could re-releasing SL be Apple's way of saying "Maybe we should've quit while we were ahead?"
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:52 PM   #66
mdelvecchio
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Originally Posted by wikus View Post
I wouldn't call anything non-mobile from Apple a 'full blown computer' seeing how that term could only be relevant to the Mac Pro line
...uh dude? youre high. if you dont think macbooks or ipads are full computers, what can we say? youre high. not everybody needs a truck.

Quote:
ignored professionals and catered to the iToy crowd.
if you feel the tools billed as iphones & ipads are merely toys, then youre doing it wrong. they help me and countless others manage our businesses and organize our lives. as tools they offer value, just like any other tool. and like other tools, they dont all offer the same value to everyone. and thats fine.

Quote:
Apple doesnt care about consumers as much as they do about profits,
riiight. are you not aware of apple's business model? theres a reason they earn the most consumer satisfaction polls.

Quote:
for professionals, its been a terrible experience with Apple for the last while.
can you expand on this? what sort of "professional" are you, and how have you been blocked from doing your business? be specific.

because im an enterprise .NET developer and i have no trouble being a professional on mac. thus, your statement is bunk.

Last edited by mdelvecchio; Nov 21, 2012 at 03:11 PM.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:01 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post

For users who want to upgrade from Leopard to Lion, they need to purchase Snow Leopard in order to gain access to the Mac App Store.
NO THEY DO NOT!! I'm so sick of this money grubbing rumor. You don't need snow leopard to install mountain lion. Burn the DMG on a disc or a mount it on a flash drive. If you feel the need to do everything "legitimately" by buying an OS that you're never going to use just to be able to update to the newest one, then feel free to waste your time and money.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:03 PM   #68
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SL is great. It seems more like a Mac computer than ML. All three of my Macs run ML but I occasionally need to slide the SL disk into the MP for a couple of small tasks. If it wasn't for the compatibility of iTunes libraries, iPhoto libraries, Aperture libraries and the Mail database I would be tempted to return to SL.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:06 PM   #69
timotay89
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About Versions...

I agree that most of the stuff in Lion and Mountain Lion are good. I like them more than Snow Leopard, but I do have a problem with Versions.

I love Versions on Pages, Numbers, Keynote, just about everything, but NOT on iBooks Author. With iBooks Author, it creates a new version of my 300MB book every hour. It doesn't save the changes, it creates an entire new version. I have to add the interactive stuff right before I submit it to the store because otherwise I have no hard drive left. The constant saving also slows my computer.

I realize that I can just go and delete the old versions, but that's a pain. If I go version by version it takes about 20-30 seconds to delete each one. Yes I have an older computer, but spending 10+ minutes deleting versions of a file that I don't want versions for is crazy.

I wish we had the option to shut it off for certain apps.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:13 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by wikus View Post
10.6.8 is still Apple's best OS. Lion and Mountain Lion are just bloatware that went through the iPadification process. I'm not 'upgrading' to any new release of OS X until they improve on performance and stability and bring back Expose to what it used to be. Also, get rid of versions.
Snow Leopard is my favorite of the OS X series, with Mountain Lion in second place. Lion is my least favorite. Lion was often slow and buggy, but Mountain Lion fixed some of those issues. Two things I miss from Snow Leopard are te Aqua Scroll Bars, and Rosetta, which I used to be able to play Marble Blast Gold. Luckily I can always make a separate partition and run Snow Leopard as well
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:13 PM   #71
Ynot
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back to topic

The main reason people have been asking for SL has been that you need it to upgrade. And the Reason people need to upgrade has been the iPhone 5 and iOs6's iCloud services.

But SL was never totally gone. Even if the Search in the Apple online Store found SL but no attached product, after MLion was introduced you could still get SL from Apple. All you had to do was call the 0800er Nr and apple would gladly ship it to you. But it is good that they have reintroduced it into the online Store.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 04:33 PM   #72
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It's only there so that everyone can buy OS X ML via the Mac App Store legit.

10.6 was a gr8 OS at the time, but we move on.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 04:45 PM   #73
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Forever on SL is what you will be.

ML > SL
If you put them together to make S&ML would it be better still?

Seriously though, I'm in the SL is best camp. This move just needs to be followed by "New Macs can run SL again", to bring us all back into the market for new Macs, which we have hardly been since Lion's release.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:23 PM   #74
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Sweet!! Now I can finally update my Blackbook from 10.5.8! Right?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:26 PM   #75
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The "iPadification process" is all part of the big picture, because like it or not, the future of computing is about users working with both full-blown computer systems and portable devices like the iPad or a smartphone, and expecting an increasing level of integration between them.
If you live in a decent rented apartment and decide to build yourself a new house, you don't go and live in it until it's finished. The state of Mac OS X at the moment is like an unfinished house. They keep bolting bits of iOS to it, but nothing really feels unified or complete.
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