Random Black Screens

Sir Ruben said:

on a side note I had the same kind of screen blanking issue with my xbox 360 connected via HDMI to my TV and it turned out to be the cable, I tried a couple of other HDMI cables and it didnt happen again.

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I agree with you 110%. Black screen/flickering is actually a very common problem with HDMI. So common that I do NOT believe that this is even a Mac mini issue. This would also explain why it's not effecting the Thunderbolt port. These same symptoms effect every brand of electronics, and usually it can be traced to cheap cables (people believe that because it's not analog that cheap cables work the same as good cables, which is a misconception) or a bad setting (like refresh rate, resolution, etc). If I was troubleshooting this issue I would first start with trying different screen settings, like refresh rate, display profile, screen resolution and 1080i VS. 1080p. I would also be looking at the monitor’s menu. One of those combinations should fix it (providing the cables are not cheap)

rolsskk said:

3 Brands, 3 Cables, and still 1 Problematic MacMini.

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I would save yourself a great deal of stress and just get a thunderbolt > whatever cable and solve your problem instantly.

I have a hunch that this issue may never be resolved, especially if its an Ivy Bridge issue.

Personally I dont rate HDMI as a connection method anyway. Its not great.

I have the same issue..
I have the new base mac mini, stock ram. And I am using the HDMI output. It is realy annoying when you are gaming.....

rolsskk said:

3 Brands, 3 Cables, and still 1 Problematic MacMini.

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LOL Your signal really doesn't care what brand your cable is, and it doesn't matter how many cables you try, if they are all cheap cables then of course the issue will remain BTW, by 'cheap' I am not talking about how much they cost, but how they are manufactured.

Sir Ruben said:

I would save yourself a great deal of stress and just get a thunderbolt > whatever cable and solve your problem instantly.

I have a hunch that this issue may never be resolved, especially if its an Ivy Bridge issue.

Personally I dont rate HDMI as a connection method anyway. Its not great.

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I asked this before but I got no answer, so bear with me becaue I'm genuinely curious: do all TB devices (hard drives, etc.) come with two ports for daisy chaining? If so, using the TB port for the screen doesn't take much off the mini (unless you want to go dual screen as you'd need HDMI anyway for the second one), since if you want to get a TB device in the future you just daisy chain the monitor to it. But is the double port indeed standard on TB devices?

Mac... nificent said:

I agree with you 110%. Black screen/flickering is actually a very common problem with HDMI. So common that I do NOT believe that this is even a Mac mini issue. This would also explain why it's not effecting the Thunderbolt port. These same symptoms effect every brand of electronics, and usually it can be traced to cheap cables (people believe that because it's not analog that cheap cables work the same as good cables, which is a misconception) or a bad setting (like refresh rate, resolution, etc). If I was troubleshooting this issue I would first start with trying different screen settings, like refresh rate, display profile, screen resolution and 1080i VS. 1080p. I would also be looking at the monitor’s menu. One of those combinations should fix it (providing the cables are not cheap)

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You are talking "beep"

Can you prove that a more 10000 Dollar cable is better than a 10 dollar? No you can't. I can prove that the price doesn't really matter.


A more expensive ANALOG vga cable can make a difference since it is analog.
But the price doesn't matter with a digital cable like hdmi or dvi, since all they do is transfer one's an zero's digitally.

It works or it not works. Explanation in the links below:

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-entertainment/1292371/expensive-hdmi-cables-make-no-difference-the-absolute-proof/3

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20056502-1/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/

Summary: A cheap hdmi/dvi cable has the same output-quality as a $10.000 one. It is marketing ********.
Ofcourse i don't say that bad cables doesn't exist.

There where enough reports that the same cable works with a adapter on the thunderbolt connection but failed if it was connected to the hdmi connection on the Mac Mini.

And if you think that the Mac Mini has no faults, i recommend that you read all the topics related to this problem. Why the heck do you think that Intel is releasing fixes regarding the hdmi issues huh?

You are really ignorant to think that the Mac Mini has no faults. (Have you actually read anything at all about this issue?)

Thunderbolt devices

A second (or passthrough) port is not standard on Thunderbolt devices, although I think it should be. Most do include the passthrough port which allows for daisy chaining. Hubs are still very expensive, although presumably this will change (hopefully within 20-30 years at this rate...)

So, yes, using the Thunderbolt port to run a display or TV is an option, as many devices that might be plugged in there will allow the signal to run through to the TV.

But there are 2 issues with this:

1. You then have to disconnect the entire chain, remove a device, and reconnect it to run the display again if you want to take a hard drive with you, for example
2. The HDMI port is right there, but unreliable, and many people are rightfully dissatisfied with an expensive, new device with a prominent flaw

Now, if they'd just given us 2 or 3 Thunderbolt ports and skipped the HDMI jack, I'd be a happy camper. Maybe on the next model.

drewe2000 said:

A second (or passthrough) port is not standard on Thunderbolt devices, although I think it should be. Most do include the passthrough port which allows for daisy chaining. Hubs are still very expensive, although presumably this will change (hopefully within 20-30 years at this rate...)

So, yes, using the Thunderbolt port to run a display or TV is an option, as many devices that might be plugged in there will allow the signal to run through to the TV.

But there are 2 issues with this:

1. You then have to disconnect the entire chain, remove a device, and reconnect it to run the display again if you want to take a hard drive with you, for example
2. The HDMI port is right there, but unreliable, and many people are rightfully dissatisfied with an expensive, new device with a prominent flaw

Now, if they'd just given us 2 or 3 Thunderbolt ports and skipped the HDMI jack, I'd be a happy camper. Maybe on the next model.

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Thanks for clarifying that. You have a point, it is annoying and I do hope that this can be fixed with a firmware upgrade or with a replacement. However so far people have had the machine replaced with no luck, so they haven't gotten a fix yet. When I called Apple Italy a few weeks ago about this, the woman I spoke to claimed she had never heard of the issue and couldn't find any reference to it in their database, which surprised me since some of the people here from the US had said that the support people from Apple in the US had said they were aware of the problem already. I do have a MDP-DVI adapter around, but I haven't had the time to look for it; I may have to do it come this weekend since my black screens have come back with a vengeance— and I got snow yesterday for the first time. I don't see myself getting any TB device or a second screen any time soon, so it's not a big deal. What annoys me is that in the future this Mac Mini may be turned into a media center, and I'd rather use HDMI at that point...

Snowcake said:

Summary: A cheap hdmi/dvi cable has the same output-quality as a $10.000 one. It is marketing ********.
Ofcourse i don't say that bad cables doesn't exist.

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It is mostly marketing fluff, but digital signals are still "ups and downs" over a wire. If for some reason the wire just doesn't have the right characteristics to allow the voltage to go up and down in the specified time, the original digital envelope is effectively lost in transmission.

I had this happen to me very recently with something way simpler than a HDMI cable: I needed a micro-USB cable for my Kindle as I had used its own to power my Raspberry Pi, and I got a €2 cable at a place with cheap stuff. Didn't work: the Kindle was mounted, but I immediately got the "devices ejected without being properly unmounted" error. I tried it on the Raspberry Pi since it only needs the power pins, and it wasn't even booting. It does charge the Kindle if I hook it up to the iPhone's wall charger, but it takes hours. I was back at the store for other reasons a few days later and the owner was surprised and offered to replace it: same thing. Then I got a Nokia-branded micro-USB cable for €4.90 (discounted from €9.90) and it works perfectly, in fact it's powering my Raspberry Pi as I'm typing this.

I also had unreliable communication with a USB-RS232 converter a few years ago. I thought it was my code's fault on the microcontroller I was using, but it was actually the converter itself that worked at first, but then started pushing out random signals as its own mcu heated up.

In the mini's case, however, I doubt it's the cables. I just can't believe we ALL have crappy HDMI cables. I know that HDMI-DVI one I'm using is perfectly functional, as I used it to connect my MacBook Pro back to my TV in 2009 (using a MDP-DVI adapter). I guess we have to wait and see. If we can get this issue featured on the homepage of Macrumors, 9to5mac or something like that, Apple would have to do something about it. There are several discussions on the topic on Apple's own forums too.

For those correctly saying that not all HDMI cables are created equally... care to recomend any brands?

I've always peronsally just bought the cheapest HDMI cables available, but I did see last month a HDMI cable giving a friend problems with their Blu-Ray player, and changing HDMI cables fixed it. But their problem cable was a $$$ Monster one .

Westyfield2 said:

For those correctly saying that not all HDMI cables are created equally... care to recomend any brands?

I've always peronsally just bought the cheapest HDMI cables available, but I did see last month a HDMI cable giving a friend problems with their Blu-Ray player, and changing HDMI cables fixed it. But their problem cable was a $$$ Monster one .

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I've personally always bought Hama cables for all my devices (sat dvr, bluray and wdtv) and my parents' (sat dvr and bluray) and I never had any problem. Big stores sell them for around €6 or so here, you just have to watch out for the clerk telling you that you should really buy this €39.99 cable because it's gold plated (!).
I'd suggest staying away from the supercheap ones and you should be fine. Mind you, I'm not saying that they are necessarily bad, but there is a physical limit beyond which signal transmission becomes inefficient, if the individual wires are too thin or not appropriately shielded. This is especially true as the resoluton and refresh rate goes up.

It's how the HDMI cables are manufactured that is important. If they are anything like the Ethernet cables being sold on the market, then I wouldn't trust a HDMI cable manufactured on the cheap that may have copper plated aluminium as a core.
A cheap (price and quality) Ethernet cable is classified as CCA (Copper Clad Aluminium) and a more expensive cables have solid copper core.
I purchased a cheap no brand 1m HDMI cable from ebay and hooked it up to my SKY HD satellite box. I was getting picture/sound drop-outs and thought my HD box was faulty. Until I went out and to my surprise saw a Belkin HDMI cable at a £1 store. Better brand and being sold cheap, it worked first time and has been working for the past few months without problems.
You also need these cheap HDMI cables to be safe. As well as video, HDMI also sends small amount of power down the cable and poorly manufactured cables can be unsafe.

Back to the Mac Mini issue, I sent my Mac Mini back to Apple last week for a refund. I posted my concerns on the Apple forums and a day before the courier collected the Mini, I got a call from Apple technical support department and they wanted my Mini for investigation and send it to engineering dept. at Apple HQ in US via Ireland. They would send me a replacement as soon as it arrived in Ireland, I declined the offer as I prefer a refund and told him I would maybe purchase again after the issue has been fixed. I gave him my RMA number, so they could get the returns department to forward the Mini for further investigation.

Snowcake said:

You are talking "beep"

Can you prove that a more 10000 Dollar cable is better than a 10 dollar? No you can't. I can prove that the price doesn't really matter.


A more expensive ANALOG vga cable can make a difference since it is analog.
But the price doesn't matter with a digital cable like hdmi or dvi, since all they do is transfer one's an zero's digitally.

It works or it not works. Explanation in the links below:

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-entertainment/1292371/expensive-hdmi-cables-make-no-difference-the-absolute-proof/3

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20056502-1/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/

Summary: A cheap hdmi/dvi cable has the same output-quality as a $10.000 one. It is marketing ********.
Ofcourse i don't say that bad cables doesn't exist.

There where enough reports that the same cable works with a adapter on the thunderbolt connection but failed if it was connected to the hdmi connection on the Mac Mini.

And if you think that the Mac Mini has no faults, i recommend that you read all the topics related to this problem. Why the heck do you think that Intel is releasing fixes regarding the hdmi issues huh?

You are really ignorant to think that the Mac Mini has no faults. Image (Have you actually read anything at all about this issue?)

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Even though digital basically means ones and zeros, it's not completely true that it either "works or doesn't work".

Digital transmissions and interfaces can still experience interference. The structure of digital communication includes a sort of buffer between the actual 1s or 0s, a sort of pause to make room for some interference which can occur when there is a long transmissionline, i.e. a long cable. But when the interference/noise becomes too great, the receptive end can have trouble making out the difference between a 1 and a 0. To some extent, this is taken care of with checksums and algorithms to prevent the whole signal to be lost because of one bad bit (1/0) out of thousands.

But sure, what we experience as end users when it "works or doesn't work is that the total number of errors exceed the acceptable limit, and the system fails in guessing the original signal from what clues it receives. The signal might also be "diffused/blurry" to the receiving end if the connections are bad or the conductive path in the cable itself is poor, so much that the voltage drops. It's the difference in voltage that makes the actual difference between 1s and 0s, where the buffer between them is a specified time of no voltage. If the voltage in the end of the cable is much lower, the difference between the "on and off, - or - 1, buffer and 0" is harder to distinguish, and they might be interpreted wrong.

So what does a "good/bad" cable have to do with this? Well, since the noise or interference in the actual cable is the same wether it's connected to a digital or analog interface (all cables ar analog infact, they're just a bunch of solid state conductors), a better cable, usually with higher purity of copper, greater amount of conductive material or better connections (gold plated, usually) - a better cable can conduct the signals further without internal losses to resistance, and might be less prone to outside interference, hence giving overall lower losses of the original signal in the end of the cable, giving less errors in transferring the bits.

So, even though in practice, it just works or doesn't, there is a hidden, certain amount of noise/errors that has to occur for the digital signal as a whole to not work. A good cable can make the difference.

Does the TB to HDMI connection solve all problems of intelHD4000? I mean, not just black screens, but screen freezing, color calibration and all mentioned in this thread??


thx for any reply.

I dont think using the display port is a viable solution. Part of the mnini still doesnt work properly. To me thats like hitting someone with a car and breaking their leg. Then when they complain tell them to shut up and use the other leg.

as mentioned already here and other forums as well:

if you want to connect multiple monitors to mini, in most cases you need to use both outputs.

Also if you have a digital receiver that you use to pass through the video/audio, you would most likely do it using HDMI.

While there is an HDMI port available, I don't see the point buying a TB-HDMI adapter and discard the fact that the device itself is faulty.

Owners should report the problems to Apple and it just might get this going somewhere.

EDIT: While blaming the HDMI cables might be a valid point in some individual cases, the HDMI has really been out there long enough to prove it's working, just unwear the Apple colored glasses if you can't see where the problem lies.

Screen Blanking, Blackouts and Snow

Guys - I'm with you on this as I have an old 2010-2011 Mini with the same HDMI issues and since this has been going on for so long it's obvious Apple isn't listening.

Perhaps they will listen if it hits the New York Times. I wrote the following letter to David Pogue, New York Times, Technology Columnist.

"The Apple Halo Effect - With Horns

David - I'm an avid reader of your columns and while I don't always agree … I enjoy the light you shed on various products and services.

It's no mystery that Apple fans have come to expect excellence and cutting edge technology from Apple whether it's hardware, software or accessories like cables and connectors.

Supporting all this great technology there's something that reins even higher on the list of customer satisfaction and that would be Service to include acknowledgement of troubles, bugs and issues that are shared by a significant percentage of the user base - and with all this customers expect the Truth.

The truth is …. there are some things Apple doesn't want to share or acknowledge in terms of their products. I'd like to introduce the issue where users are experiencing screen blanking, screen blackouts, snow and other artifacts when connected via HDMI on the Mac Mini product line.

I'm writing you because Apple really doesn't want to acknowledge this issue whether you call Customer Support, visit a Genius Bar or escalate to an engineer. There's a very high percentage of users out there (I'm one of them) experiencing this issue with brand new Mac Mini's as well as earlier versions of the machine.

The problem manifests itself at random intervals and the blanking, flashing or snow lasts for a second or two and everything resumes as though nothing happened. The trouble only seems to appear with users who use their HDMI port.

My primary concern is that Apple hasn't let customers know this is an ongoing issue that hasn't been resolved in several software or hardware releases. We deserve better we deserve the truth and we deserve a fix for this ongoing issue.

I'm writing you because thousands of posts on forums, message boards and Apple support sites hasn't brought a resolution or even acknowledgement from Apple - this is WRONG!

I tend to believe if it gets printed in the New York Times it gets traction!

I'm inviting, asking, begging you to do the research, confirm and reveal this nasty set of horns that Apple has. I'm asking for your help on this because I believe it's time Apple get's the spotlight they deserve and your light does shine.

Thank you for your support!

Warm Regards,"

jollino said:

bear with me becaue I'm genuinely curious: do all TB devices (hard drives, etc.) come with two ports for daisy chaining?

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Regarding daisy-chaining of Thunderbolt devices; each chain can support up to eight devices (including the host computer).

Started happening when I got new monitor

I thought the problem was with my monitor because it wasn't happening when I was using my old studio display connected with the big huge apple adaptor to HDMI. I just got a new viewsonic monitor and suddenly am experiencing random blackouts. Finding this thread made me realize it might be the connection. I have my new monitor connected with an HDMI to DVI cable (no adaptor). I am going to try connecting with the supplied HDMI to DVI adapter and see if the problem stops. Just thought I would chime in on this thread. Hope it helps.

Mac... nificent said:

LOL Your signal really doesn't care what brand your cable is, and it doesn't matter how many cables you try, if they are all cheap cables then of course the issue will remain BTW, by 'cheap' I am not talking about how much they cost, but how they are manufactured.

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No kidding, sherlock. I was answering an earlier post who was blaming cables for our video output woes, I was just showing him that it wasn't an isolated incident or could be the HDMI cable's fault.

masterbaron said:

My primary concern is that Apple hasn't let customers know this is an ongoing issue that hasn't been resolved in several software or hardware releases.

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This has always been standard operating procedure for Apple. If you're looking for Apple to publicly announce that this is a verified issue, it doesn't matter who you write, they will not do it. I know this first hand. When the first mini was sold it had a VERY bad video issue and I hired an attorney and filed a class action. Apple wouldn't even admit that this was an issue to my attorney, so I guarantee you that you won't be seeing any announcement posted directly for consumers. Why won't you see this? You are making a LOT of assumptions here, first being that it's an "Apple" issue, and that hasn't been verified yet (this is why Apple wanted to collect knight1's mini so they could study it). If and when Apple can verify that it's a problem with their product (and that hasn't happened yet) looking at history, they will issue a fix, not a verification. I'm also not saying that this isn't a Mac mini issue, but I'm also not saying that it is. No one knows what the culprit is right now and it might be something simple and not Apple related. Currently there is no public comparison of minis specific enough for tech diagnosing, so publicly tracing this down will be difficult at best. Apple will have the best chance of diagnosing as they collect the suspect minis and compare them on the bench to see if they are within spec. I'm sure David Pogue knows all of this already, so don't be disappointed if your letter falls on somewhat deaf ears. There's really nothing that he can do other than writing an article about frustrated customers, but that article would most likely also include the fact that this "flickering" symptom is a HDMI issue, and not a Apple issue.

Guys, I do seriosly need an answer for my quiestion, does any of problems mentioned here (snowhite, blackout...etc) occur while using TB port instead of HDMI?

And, does this occur on previous gen mac mini wit ati graphics?

Frined of mine is choosing his firt mac, it WILL be mac mini, and I gave him two options - either mac mini with intel HD4000 or refurb mini with ati (last gen), that is why I am asking...

He plans to do photo related stuff (photoshop) on the mini, as I understand, quadcore would be better, but if there are unsolvable problems with graphis output, previous gen mini seems better choice for me.. so?

thx.

rolsskk said:

I was just showing him that it wasn't an isolated incident or could be the HDMI cable's fault.

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Unless you're privy to some special insider diagnostic information, you cannot rule out the cables just yet. Fact is that if you had HDMI equipment that was fully within spec, and a cheap cable was thrown into the mix, black screen/flickering screen would be an expected result. And before you go on another tantrum, I'm not saying it is the cables, what I'm saying is that it very well could be and any fix that comes to light (other than a cable issue) would not work long term for those using a cheap cable. In other words, if a fix is found most people will be able to resolve their issue, but expect those using cheap cables to be posting "didn't work for me".

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majkom said:

And, does this occur on previous gen mac mini wit ati graphics?

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I have a previous gen mini and do not have this flickering issue. I have seen no verifiable Thunderbolt users with this issue. Why not get the current mini and try it via Thunderbolt and if you see an issue simply exchange it for the refurb model? You have until Jan 2013 to return a purchase because of the extended holiday returns policy

IMO, trying to force the issue legally is a waste of time and money. I think if they could fix it, they would. I doubt they're in the habit of allowing this thing to continue on their products. In time, it will probably be fixed. I hope.

Rob

Mac... nificent said:

Unless you're privy to some special insider diagnostic information, you cannot rule out the cables just yet. Fact is that if you had HDMI equipment that was fully within spec, and a cheap cable was thrown into the mix, black screen/flickering screen would be an expected result. And before you go on another tantrum, I'm not saying it is the cables, what I'm saying is that it very well could be and any fix that comes to light (other than a cable issue) would not work long term for those using a cheap cable. In other words, if a fix is found most people will be able to resolve their issue, but expect those using cheap cables to be posting "didn't work for me".

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I have a previous gen mini and do not have this flickering issue. I have seen no verifiable Thunderbolt users with this issue. Why not get the current mini and try it via Thunderbolt and if you see an issue simply exchange it for the refurb model? You have until Jan 2013 to return a purchase because of the extended holiday returns policy

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It is difficult Take it like he has no chance to return it... well, the new gen got quad core and usb3, but ATIs GPU is superior to that piece of **** made by intel...