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Old Nov 23, 2012, 07:17 PM   #26
paulya
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I understand about carrier. May I buy and use 2 iPhones by one contract (same if I lose my first iPhone and buy second)?
So I need to pay ~$640 plus 199 for second that's right?
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 07:34 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by paulya View Post
I understand about carrier. May I buy and use 2 iPhones by one contract (same if I lose my first iPhone and buy second)?
So I need to pay ~$640 plus 199 for second that's right?
No.
You need a contract for each one.
If you say you lost one you can only buy another one under the same line for full price. They won't give another subsidy for another 2 years.
You really have no idea how wireless contracts work?
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 09:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by R4VR View Post
By signing up with AT&T you are signing a contract and will be required to pay the monthly fee for that contract no matter where your iPhone is or what phone your using. So if your intention is to upgrade for $199, plus the activation fee of $35 plus the first months fee of $50 - $100 plus the termination fee... You'll pay a total of $610 - $660 for the iPhone. They do this on purpose, your better off buying an unlocked out of contract iPhone to start with.

The unlock is really for those that buy the iPhone out of contract and want it fully unlocked or those that plan to travel internationally and want to use a prepaid sim while abroad. It's also useful for unlocking your device for sale after you have fulfilled your contract.
Look, if I consider about
activation fee, ETF and all other
things like phone bill $50-$100,
even then the total price won't go
above $955(Here in India, price
for 32gb iphone 5 is around
52,500 Rs. which is
approximately $955). So, it will
be a fair deal for me to buy
iphone 5 in any way from USA.
Plus, I've also read that if you'd
made a contract with at&t before
1 Jan. 2010, you've to pay just
$175 as ETF. Is it true? And do they refund the activation fee after termination of contract?
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 10:24 PM   #29
R4VR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandark100 View Post
Look, if I consider about
activation fee, ETF and all other
things like phone bill $50-$100,
even then the total price won't go
above $955(Here in India, price
for 32gb iphone 5 is around
52,500 Rs. which is
approximately $955). So, it will
be a fair deal for me to buy
iphone 5 in any way from USA.
Plus, I've also read that if you'd
made a contract with at&t before
1 Jan. 2010, you've to pay just
$175 as ETF. Is it true? And do they refund the activation fee after termination of contract?
Termination fee is never refunded. While I understand your desire to buy from the US due to the price, your brother can just purchase it for the full price of $650 or maybe even less if he is in the US.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandark100 View Post
Look, if I consider about
activation fee, ETF and all other
things like phone bill $50-$100,
even then the total price won't go
above $955(Here in India, price
for 32gb iphone 5 is around
52,500 Rs. which is
approximately $955). So, it will
be a fair deal for me to buy
iphone 5 in any way from USA.
Plus, I've also read that if you'd
made a contract with at&t before
1 Jan. 2010, you've to pay just
$175 as ETF. Is it true? And do they refund the activation fee after termination of contract?
How do you plan on signing a contract with an iphone 5 before Jan 1st 2010?
You're going to go back in time and bring the iphone 5 with your time machine and sign the contract back in 2010?
lol
If its almost the same price why dont you just buy it from india and skip all this back and forth with at&t and contracts, fee's, runaround etc..
So you will have to pay the $325 early termination fee and they wont refund the activation fee once you terminate the contract.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:09 PM   #31
mandark100
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Originally Posted by R4VR View Post
Termination fee is never refunded. While I understand your desire to buy from the US due to the price, your brother can just purchase it for the full price of $650 or maybe even less if he is in the US.
Not termination fee, activation fee which is $35 for at&t. Do they refund it?
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:41 PM   #32
mandark100
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Originally Posted by Applejuiced View Post
How do you plan on signing a contract with an iphone 5 before Jan 1st 2010?
You're going to go back in time and bring the iphone 5 with your time machine and sign the contract back in 2010?
lol
If its almost the same price why dont you just buy it from india and skip all this back and forth with at&t and contracts, fee's, runaround etc..
So you will have to pay the $325 early termination fee and they wont refund the activation fee once you terminate the contract.
Lol..... I am not planning to go back in time. My brother is living in USA since the year of 2008. So, maybe he had signed up the contract before 1 Jan. 2010.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:45 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by mandark100 View Post
Lol..... I am not planning to go back in time. My brother is living in USA since the year of 2008. So, maybe he had signed up the contract before 1 Jan. 2010.
No.
Lol You still dont understand.
You sign the contract when you buy the iphone.
I been a customer since 1998 but that doesnt mean when I sign a new contract today that I pay the old $175 early termination fee.
You sign a new 2 year contract each time you get a new device, it doesnt matter when you became a customer if that helps you understand it a little better.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:19 AM   #34
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No.
Lol You still dont understand.
You sign the contract when you buy the iphone.
I been a customer since 1998 but that doesnt mean when I sign a new contract today that I pay the old $175 early termination fee.
You sign a new 2 year contract each time you get a new device, it doesnt matter when you became a customer if that helps you understand it a little better.
Oh! Now I get this.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 01:36 AM   #35
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Not on Verizon LTE phones

Verizon stores your info on the SIM card, both the CDMA and the lte stuff get provisioned through the SIM card

One can move between LTE phones by simply swapping sims, rather than calling Verizon like you used to a few years ago
OK. Applejuiced said the opposite. He says the CDMA portion is burned into the iPhone 5, so if you remove the SIM, you can STILL USE THE Verizon CDMA to make 3G calls. So who is right? Also, is the LTE locked to Verizon's LTE? Or can the iPhone 5 be taken to another country and use another country's LTE (assuming same band). Or do you need a factory unlocked Verizon iPhone 5?

If there IS a CDMA SIM for Verizon on iPhone 5, then does that mean it is LOCKED to Verizon unless you get the factory unlocked version? I am only talking about if the iPhone 5 is taken outside of the United States and CDMA is used (not GSM). (I know Sprint doesn't work even if factory unlocked on a Verizon iPhone 5).
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 07:06 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by VinegarTasters View Post
OK. Applejuiced said the opposite. He says the CDMA portion is burned into the iPhone 5, so if you remove the SIM, you can STILL USE THE Verizon CDMA to make 3G calls. So who is right? Also, is the LTE locked to Verizon's LTE? Or can the iPhone 5 be taken to another country and use another country's LTE (assuming same band). Or do you need a factory unlocked Verizon iPhone 5?

If there IS a CDMA SIM for Verizon on iPhone 5, then does that mean it is LOCKED to Verizon unless you get the factory unlocked version? I am only talking about if the iPhone 5 is taken outside of the United States and CDMA is used (not GSM). (I know Sprint doesn't work even if factory unlocked on a Verizon iPhone 5).
Perhaps I can do a video demonstration to show you that I am correct

As for your other question, the CDMA portion of the phone will always and permanently be locked to Verizon. One day if someone figures out how to flash the iPhone 5 to another carrier (which involves altering the ESN) - that's the only way to use the CDMA portion of the phone outside Verizon

Now, as for the LTE portion. Since Verizon's LTE network is GSM-based, all you need to do is insert the SIM card of another carrier that supports the bands that are in that iPhone, and it'll pick up LTE with no issues. If that country doesn't have the supported LTE bands, the phone will instead pick up a connection from the 2G/3G bands of that country without any issues.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 10:00 AM   #37
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No.
You need a contract for each one.
If you say you lost one you can only buy another one under the same line for full price. They won't give another subsidy for another 2 years.
You really have no idea how wireless contracts work?
Applejuice,

America is the only developed, western country in the world that I know of that has the policy of tieing phones to weird and confusing contracts with terms, cancellation policies, etc. THIS is confusing to the rest of the world. Isn't it more logical to pay for the full price of a phone and then use it how you want?

You really have no idea that the rest of the world doesn't have this nonsense?
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:58 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by rubyrussia View Post
Applejuice,

America is the only developed, western country in the world that I know of that has the policy of tieing phones to weird and confusing contracts with terms, cancellation policies, etc. THIS is confusing to the rest of the world. Isn't it more logical to pay for the full price of a phone and then use it how you want?

You really have no idea that the rest of the world doesn't have this nonsense?
I'm trying to explain him how it works here, that's all.
This is not Russia.
Not saying that its good the way it is here but you also have the option of paying full price for the phone here too and using prepaid services with no contract.
He thought you can keep getting iPhones for $200 with a contract and tell the company he lost it. As you can understand that wont work cause you only get one phone every 2 years.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 09:14 PM   #39
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Perhaps I can do a video demonstration to show you that I am correct

As for your other question, the CDMA portion of the phone will always and permanently be locked to Verizon. One day if someone figures out how to flash the iPhone 5 to another carrier (which involves altering the ESN) - that's the only way to use the CDMA portion of the phone outside Verizon

Now, as for the LTE portion. Since Verizon's LTE network is GSM-based, all you need to do is insert the SIM card of another carrier that supports the bands that are in that iPhone, and it'll pick up LTE with no issues. If that country doesn't have the supported LTE bands, the phone will instead pick up a connection from the 2G/3G bands of that country without any issues.
Well, I got two people who say if you take out the Verizon SIM from an iPhone 5, you can still make calls (apparently it uses the CDMA portion burned into the iPhone 5). If you insist the USA's Verizon iPhone 5 uses CDMA SIM, can you demonstrate that if you take out the Verizon SIM that you can't make calls anymore? Then insert another person's Verizon SIM and call another phone and check the Caller ID to show that it is using a different number burned onto the CDMA SIM?

I am only talking about CDMA SIM, not GSM SIM (or more appropriately, LTE SIM). I want to know if the Verizon CDMA portion is tied to the iPhone, or tied to the SIM. If you can swap Verizon CDMA SIM, then that means you can swap phones. If not, your number is tied to an iPhone 5 (CDMA that is).
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 09:58 PM   #40
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Applejuice,

America is the only developed, western country in the world that I know of that has the policy of tieing phones to weird and confusing contracts with terms, cancellation policies, etc. THIS is confusing to the rest of the world. Isn't it more logical to pay for the full price of a phone and then use it how you want?

You really have no idea that the rest of the world doesn't have this nonsense?
The rest of the world also don't get discounts on their phones like the US either. If everyone had to pay full price, do you really think there would be so many people with the latest and greatest phone?

And people in America do have a choice of paying full price and not having to deal with contracts, cancellation policies and etcetera. But most would rather get the discount instead.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 02:06 AM   #41
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Sf
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Originally Posted by Applejuiced View Post
I'm trying to explain him how it works here, that's all.
This is not Russia.
Not saying that its good the way it is here but you also have the option of paying full price for the phone here too and using prepaid services with no contract.
He thought you can keep getting iPhones for $200 with a contract and tell the company he lost it. As you can understand that wont work cause you only get one phone every 2 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vudoo View Post
The rest of the world also don't get discounts on their phones like the US either. If everyone had to pay full price, do you really think there would be so many people with the latest and greatest phone?

And people in America do have a choice of paying full price and not having to deal with contracts, cancellation policies and etcetera. But most would rather get the discount instead.
Yes, Applejuice.
The Internet is not America and America is also not like the rest of the world (for better or for worse or in terms of how mobile plans are sold)
I think it's likely this lady was asking if she could have one contract (i.e. peice of paper) and have both phones on this document. Although it is hard to understand because she is confused about how contracts work in the USA.

Vudoo, America pays less for their phones as it seems because taxes are factored in after the purchase and America doesn't have VAT which also decreases the cost. Canada pays virtually the same amount for their phones as the USA does. The difference is in America, you sign a contract and pay twice as much for your actual cell service which pays the phone off over time and perhaps in the end you end up paying even more. (I'll explain in a second)

Also, You're mistaken about the amount of people willing to pay full price. Iphone 5 last month was selling for about 1,500 dollars. People were buying it and they will buy it now even as it is technically black market. The Iphone 5 won't arrive over here officially for probably 2 to 4 more months. IPhone in Russia, like most places, is a status symbol and having the latest and greatest people are willing to pay. In general, most consumer goods around the world are anywhere from 10% more expensive to 60%.
1. Americans don't get some discounted Iphone because of being American. You get a somewhat cheaper phone because of taxes, import / export tarrifs, etc.
2. You do not pay just 200 dollars for a phone. You sign a contract with terms and conditions like having to pay hundreds of dollars to get off your contract, if you end your contract your phone is still locked to your company, you have a very expensive data plan that is designed so, so that you will eventually pay the 700 or 900 dollars that everyone else ends up paying, you agree to a penalty plan if you go over your limit.

Where I live, I have unlimited LTE (I can download 50 gbs a month and they don't care) for 30 dollars a month. I pay about another 35 for a thousand minutes a month.

How do I know all this that I have written? I am an American from Dallas, Texas.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 02:11 AM   #42
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I fully agree my Russian friend.
It is very confusing the way contracts and phone upgrades work here but its been going on for over 15+ years now that people see it normal and know how it works.
So like you said people think they're getting it cheaper with a contract but they're paying a very expensive price compared to other countries for their monthly service with the 2 big carriers Verizon and AT&T.

Last edited by Applejuiced; Nov 25, 2012 at 02:24 AM.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 02:22 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by rubyrussia View Post
Sf



Yes, Applejuice.
The Internet is not America and America is also not like the rest of the world (for better or for worse or in terms of how mobile plans are sold)
I think it's likely this lady was asking if she could have one contract (i.e. peice of paper) and have both phones on this document. Although it is hard to understand because she is confused about how contracts work in the USA.

Vudoo, America pays less for their phones as it seems because taxes are factored in after the purchase and America doesn't have VAT which also decreases the cost. Canada pays virtually the same amount for their phones as the USA does. The difference is in America, you sign a contract and pay twice as much for your actual cell service which pays the phone off over time and perhaps in the end you end up paying even more. (I'll explain in a second)

Also, You're mistaken about the amount of people willing to pay full price. Iphone 5 last month was selling for about 1,500 dollars. People were buying it and they will buy it now even as it is technically black market. The Iphone 5 won't arrive over here officially for probably 2 to 4 more months. IPhone in Russia, like most places, is a status symbol and having the latest and greatest people are willing to pay. In general, most consumer goods around the world are anywhere from 10% more expensive to 60%.
1. Americans don't get some discounted Iphone because of being American. You get a somewhat cheaper phone because of taxes, import / export tarrifs, etc.
2. You do not pay just 200 dollars for a phone. You sign a contract with terms and conditions like having to pay hundreds of dollars to get off your contract, if you end your contract your phone is still locked to your company, you have a very expensive data plan that is designed so, so that you will eventually pay the 700 or 900 dollars that everyone else ends up paying, you agree to a penalty plan if you go over your limit.

Where I live, I have unlimited LTE (I can download 50 gbs a month and they don't care) for 30 dollars a month. I pay about another 35 for a thousand minutes a month.

How do I know all this that I have written? I am an American from Dallas, Texas.
I assume you have an iPhone 5.

Can you tell me if if your iPhone 5 works on lte in Russia?

I ask because I sold a verizon iPhone 5 to him. I know the phone will work there, I was just not sure if the Russian lte band would work there. Thanks
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 02:45 AM   #44
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I fully agree my Russian friend.
It is very confusing the way contracts and phone upgrades work here but its been going on for over 15+ years now that people see it normal and know how it works.
So like you said people think they're getting it cheaper with a contract but they're paying a very expensive price compared to other countries for their monthly service with the 2 big carriers Verizon and AT&T.
Yes, I don't have the answer as to why. I am guessing that the interest groups and big business are responsible. Perhaps the price is out of control just like the medical care system is because people don't really have any idea how much things at a hospital cost because they don't usually pay for it.

BTW, I am not Russian. I was born and raised in Dallas, Texas. :-) I lived there for 21 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillywabbit View Post
I assume you have an iPhone 5.

Can you tell me if if your iPhone 5 works on lte in Russia?

I ask because I sold a verizon iPhone 5 to him. I know the phone will work there, I was just not sure if the Russian lte band would work there. Thanks
I am taking my annual trip back to the USA soon. I will be of course be buying an Iphone. Unfortunately for me, I am going to have to buy one “full price” and probably locked and then head over to ebay for an unlock. Otherwise I could buy one on the black market over here for 1,200 dollars. I'd rather not.
If there is interest on the forum, I will check what frequencies the lte networks are using over here.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 04:54 AM   #45
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The rest of the world also don't get discounts on their phones like the US either. If everyone had to pay full price, do you really think there would be so many people with the latest and greatest phone?

And people in America do have a choice of paying full price and not having to deal with contracts, cancellation policies and etcetera. But most would rather get the discount instead.
Here in India, the price of 16gb variant is also more than 32gb unlocked iphone 5(42,500 Rs. which is approximately $773). It's ridiculous to pay $773 for 16gb where you can get 32gb variant in USA just for $750, isn't it?
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 08:09 AM   #46
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Sf
Vudoo, America pays less for their phones as it seems because taxes are factored in after the purchase and America doesn't have VAT which also decreases the cost. Canada pays virtually the same amount for their phones as the USA does. The difference is in America, you sign a contract and pay twice as much for your actual cell service which pays the phone off over time and perhaps in the end you end up paying even more. (I'll explain in a second)

Also, You're mistaken about the amount of people willing to pay full price. Iphone 5 last month was selling for about 1,500 dollars. People were buying it and they will buy it now even as it is technically black market. The Iphone 5 won't arrive over here officially for probably 2 to 4 more months. IPhone in Russia, like most places, is a status symbol and having the latest and greatest people are willing to pay. In general, most consumer goods around the world are anywhere from 10% more expensive to 60%.
1. Americans don't get some discounted Iphone because of being American. You get a somewhat cheaper phone because of taxes, import / export tarrifs, etc.
2. You do not pay just 200 dollars for a phone. You sign a contract with terms and conditions like having to pay hundreds of dollars to get off your contract, if you end your contract your phone is still locked to your company, you have a very expensive data plan that is designed so, so that you will eventually pay the 700 or 900 dollars that everyone else ends up paying, you agree to a penalty plan if you go over your limit.

Where I live, I have unlimited LTE (I can download 50 gbs a month and they don't care) for 30 dollars a month. I pay about another 35 for a thousand minutes a month.

How do I know all this that I have written? I am an American from Dallas, Texas.
Each country has their own tax system, but that is something you will have to exclude from the price when you are making a comparison. Even in the US, not all states have sales tax. And if you think Canada is that much different than the US, then think again. You can get discounts on iPhones, but instead of 2 year contracts their contracts are usually 3 years.

There will always be people who pay full price and there will be people who pay above that. To use your example of $1500 iPhones in Russia, who are the people buying them? Are they middle-class families buying them for their kids? Or are they most likely the wealthy elite? Since you have lived in Dallas, then you know that almost everyone has the latest iPhone version. Can that be said the same in Moscow? I can say that isn't the same in SE Asia. That is why the iPhone is not a status symbol in the US or Canada as in other countries because of the upfront discounts.

I agree that there are things that can be changed in the US, but there are benefits to the existing system. Everything has a trade off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandark100 View Post
Here in India, the price of 16gb variant is also more than 32gb unlocked iphone 5(42,500 Rs. which is approximately $773). It's ridiculous to pay $773 for 16gb where you can get 32gb variant in USA just for $750, isn't it?
Only if you can get one in the USA.

Last edited by Vudoo; Nov 25, 2012 at 09:24 PM.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 10:22 AM   #47
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Here in India, the price of 16gb variant is also more than 32gb unlocked iphone 5(42,500 Rs. which is approximately $773). It's ridiculous to pay $773 for 16gb where you can get 32gb variant in USA just for $750, isn't it?
You're forgeting the sales tax in that price though.
The 16GB with tax in the US can come close to $700.
So its not like you're saving a lot of money buying and bringing it over from the US to India.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 03:30 AM   #48
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You're forgeting the sales tax in that price though.
The 16GB with tax in the US can come close to $700.
So its not like you're saving a lot of money buying and bringing it over from the US to India.
Oh yes I forgot about the taxes......But even then it definitely costs less than in India
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:44 PM   #49
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Oh yes I forgot about the taxes......But even then it definitely costs less than in India
Up to you man.
But remember you gotta bring it with your through airports and luggage on the trip back to India. Also make sure you dont stick it in a suitcase cause it can get stolen in transit.
I'd put the box and all accessories in and carry the actual phone with you.
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