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bflowers

macrumors 6502a
Jul 19, 2006
636
136
Why duct tape the ODD to the back? Get a shelf that mounts on the stand, and have the optical drive slot face the user. Now that the ODD is an option for those who still need one, you don't have to replicate Apple's old design.

I was kidding about the duct tape! Although, I am tempted to take a quick picture of it taped to the side, and send it to both Cook and Ives, just to thank them for the stellar design decisions!

Why not? I am amazed at how some Apple product users complain, complain, complain. The things that make Apple a great company: advancement in technology and leading designs, some see as a detriment. I have a Macbook Pro Retina. I purchased the Super Drive thinking I would need it. I wasted $79 + tax. I've yet to use it and don't envision when I will have a need for it.

Why do people complain? Well, the short answer is that we're just human, and it is in our nature. Slightly longer answer is that we spend more money on what is expected to be a premium product, so we expect it to be a premium product. It should meet or exceed our own personal expectations. I'll grant you that this is the cause of much of the misery that is the 'human condition.'

If you don't need your Super Drive, I'll take it! :D I'll gladly pay the shipping! Those of us that use the ODD on a regular basis just think it is dumb to make a desktop computer marginally thinner (and don't tell my it's only 5mm thick, it has a large butt to go with it's large chin). You might convince me if the whole thing was a single inch thick, but it isn't.

Regardless, as I've replaced my laptop twice since getting my first iMac, it is now time to upgrade the desktop. I'll be getting a 27" with some bells and maybe a whistle. We'll see if this one can last the same 10 years I've gotten out of the last one.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
I disagree that they are not in a good spot for professionals, but it depends.

You nailed something many forget. Just because something doesn't fit their needs doesn't make it trash. It all depends on what you need to be able to do. My work needs are covered just fine by an iPad and an iMac. I don't need a
Mac Pro etc. Doesnt make my work any less. Just different. Ballmer pulled the same move claiming you can't create on an iPad when it was clear from his comments he defines 'create' as running Microsoft Office and nothing else
 

Kludge420

macrumors regular
Apr 20, 2009
114
0
Since "Available in November" for the 21.5" really means you won't be able to put your hands on one till December I'm guessing the Mac Pros "Available in 2013" means they have been discontinued.
 

Macboy Pro

macrumors 6502a
Feb 16, 2011
730
52
Based on your opinion. But you don't speak for everyone and certainly not the consumer that is Apple's focus, especially with the iMac. Those consumers, who are a good 95% if not more, of the market don't need a machine they can tweak or upgrade themselves. Rarely do they even need 8 GB of RAM but Apple is giving that. They don't all burn DVDs in mass and the tiny bit that do will have no issue with buying an external drive. And so on.

If you feel otherwise for your needs don't get an iMac, or don't get an Mac at all if that is how you feel. There will be plenty of that 95% that will buy and make up for your 'lost' sale

I think you are not in touch with reality if you think that 95% of the market for an Apple Desktop puts more focus on how thin a product is, rather than how functional it is. You are also clueless if you think many of these desktop apps do not take full advantage of 16GB or more of RAM.

Now to the "thin" issue. Apple gave up significant upgrade-ability and usability on the Macbook Pro Retina Models, in order to gain 3/16 of an inch in thickness, and its a bit lighter. Some folks can make a portability argument for that on a laptop. On a desktop, the thinness is 100% looks. 100% and that is only the profile view (at an angle). There is no portability advantages at all. So Apple gained a WOW factor at their presentation... In order to achieve that, they gave up productivity, longevity, durability, and some usability of their products.

I didn't like the retina model Macbook Pros for cost and the fact that it becomes a boat anchor at best if it fails after 1YR or 3YR Applecare. For $2.5K to $4K laptop, its not acceptable that is is not serviceable. So my opinion is the retina models are a waste and a risk. I like that Apple kept the regular Macbook Pro Line, as that is what I much prefer. Apple could solve the issue I describe by offering 5YR Applecare options so folks can get more out of their Macbook Pros. Not going to happen as IMO, Apple wants you to rebuy sooner than 5 years.
 

Yamcha

macrumors 68000
Mar 6, 2008
1,825
158
I think what would have been more innovative is If Apple was able to maintain the same thickness of the 2011 iMac but with a Desktop level graphics cards..

Sadly these Mobile Graphics frankly just suck, they are literally close to half of the performance of the desktop version.

My Radeon HD 6770M actually performs closer to a desktop Radeon 6570..
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
Get it in Dec? We'll see. Sounds like Apple is going to ship a handful to say its shipping but supply is going to be constrained in a major way. Otherwise they would have had these in-store a week earlier on Black Friday.

Not necessarily. They could have been holding them until after Black Friday because there was going to be no discount on iMacs this year and wanted to spare staff the nonstop whining about it.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,298
3,893
Stop talking rubbish, .. Please get your facts right.

Pot met kettle. Your facts aren't accurate facts.

Old 21.5 base had 7200rpm HD this new one has 5400rpm hd, = lesser component and price increase,

the old 21.5 base had 500GB drive the new one has a 1TB drive. Opps a greater component. RPM is like GHz for a CPU. Unless comparing same generation media capacity it is not really indicative of Mbps transfer speeds. A denser material traveling at 5400rpm can be as fast or faster than a less dense material traveling at 7200rpm.

No optical drive and price increase, with such a nice computer one would likely stick to apple,

Old 21.5 mac came with 4GB RAM, new with 8GB RAM (and faster RAM; twice storage and faster.) . The optical drive was traded off for looks like more fans and bumps in RAM/Storage capacity. (and possibly better, slightly more expensive, discrete GPUs ). There is likely a minor increased manufacturing cost built in there also.


You can stay blind or be ignorant, thats your prerogative.

Yeah. ( how your post gets up voted by 6 is humorous. )
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,298
3,893
Now when I'm sitting in front of the display, I couldn't care less about those 5mm screen edges. And I would prefer a solution where not every heat-generating component (power supply, harddisk, GPU, CPU, display...) is packed into an extremely tight space.

It is only thin at the edges. It appears that Apple may have used some of the space used by the ODD to increase the fan radius (and/or fan count ).
If they increase the flow of air while narrowing at the edges ( away from the hottest components ) there is no necessarily net increase in internal temperatures. Having more air over components that aren't the primary heat sources isn't going to have a huge impact on reducing internal temperatures.

If Apple didn't increase air flow, then yeah it is a dubious move. But thin edges doesn't necessarily do that.

I’ll probably buy the 27" model, because I need a powerful desktop machine now, and I don’t have the budget for a Mac Pro and a huge screen. But I’m afraid that this Twiggy-ish machine will have heat-related problems (e.g. screen colors changing -wouldn’t be the first time)

Probably depends on if get the maxed out GPU and crank both CPU and GPU subsystems full power for long periods of time. However, for the majority of iMac configs and usage the design can work if the cooling system is implemented well.

I hope this generation of iMac doesn’t mark the end of Apple as a company willing and able to build great desktop computers.

If Intel/Nvidia/AMD keep the same trendlines they already are on then the future trend is toward smaller enclosures for the vast majority of the PC market.
 

XboxMySocks

macrumors 68020
Oct 25, 2009
2,230
198
I was going to buy one for my daughter who's 2 and a half but I couldn't wait so I got a maxed out MBP retina with a couple of TB Displays for her instead.

Kind of regretting it now they've released this but on the plus side my wife is six months pregnant with Sextuplets so I'll pre-order 6 of the top of the line 27s on Friday and they should arrive more or less the same time as the birth...

Jesus christ, can I be your kid?
 

Kludge420

macrumors regular
Apr 20, 2009
114
0
Here's how I see it:

Apple created a glare problem by refusing to use matte screens.

Apple "fixed" the problem in the most expensive, least desired way possible.
 

MeFromHere

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2012
468
16
Stop talking rubbish, there is NO improved screen, Just that the screen is now closer due to thinner glass. Yes text my look better, Last time I checked Apple wasn't talking about a revolutionary screen but saying how thin it is. Please get your facts right.

Old 21.5 base had 7200rpm HD this new one has 5400rpm hd, = lesser component and price increase, No optical drive and price increase, with such a nice computer one would likely stick to apple, thats price increase of £99 plus Apple external for £65 all for lesser components but more money.

You can stay blind or be ignorant, thats your prerogative.

I said "screen assembly", not just screen. Apple has noted at least 3 improvements:
1. Elimination of the air gap. This does NOT just make the screen "closer", it eliminates a source of additional reflections and makes the image slightly crisper.
2. A new anti-reflective surface layer.
3. Individual display calibration.

Apple says the new screen assembly is 75% less reflective than the old one. That is probably a very significant chance, but I'll reserve judgement until I see it in person.

As you noted, some of the new disk drives spin slower than the old ones. If nothing else changes, that will definitely result less disk bandwidth and longer latency. How much worse the drives perform remains to be seen. There are lots of other variables that affect disk performance: cache size, number of platters and number of heads, total drive capacity, etc. You chose to mention only the rotation speed. If that's your most important feature, fine.

The "last time you checked" Apple's descriptions of the new iMacs may have been somewhat incomplete. Here's a web page:
http://www.apple.com/imac/
They mention the new thin screen, and then they mention the 75% improvement in reflectivity. So we're both right about what Apple is talking about. I'm NOT calling your post "rubbish" just because you chose to ignore some of Apple's description.

Other "components" have clearly gotten better... the CPUs are better than before, the graphics are better, the memory speed and capacity are both better, the USB is better. The (optional) SSD may better, but we don't know for sure yet. The (optional) fusion drive is better. Is it ok if I call those things "components"?

Yes, they no longer include the optical drive. That undoubtedly lets them lower the price (or in this case increase the price a bit less). It also removes a significant source of heat. I guess Apple thinks most customers will be ok with these tradeoffs. That may not be true in your case, but they aren't trying to please everyone.

If pointing out some improvements that you didn't mention makes me "blind" or "ignorant" in your opinion, that's ok with me. No rule says we must have identical opinions. :)

----------

Since "Available in November" for the 21.5" really means you won't be able to put your hands on one till December I'm guessing the Mac Pros "Available in 2013" means they have been discontinued.
According to Apple's announcement today, I expect quite a few people will put their hands on the 21.5" iMac this Friday, November 30, 2012. "Coming in November" has never meant that everyone who wants one will get it in November, but some people will.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
I think you are not in touch with reality if you think that 95% of the market for an Apple Desktop puts more focus on how thin a product is, rather than how functional it is. You are also clueless if you think many of these desktop apps do not take full advantage of 16GB or more of RAM.

.

Before you call someone clueless brush up your skills and actually read what you are presuming to respond to. Because I never mentioned the thin issue. I said 95% of the focus market doesn't need a machine they can upgrade themselves or can edit and render Avatar 2 in 20D or whatever because they aren't doing that stuff. They are reading email and online shopping. They watch their blu-rays on the free player that came with their 60 inch TV and don't know what a backup is much less have a clue they could burn a DVD.

Apple designs the iMac for THAT group, not you. So don't buy it. But don't presume to call it a failure because it doesn't make you happy.

Oh and they are all totally serviceable. By Apple trained and certified technicians. Just not by you in the kitchen with a butter knife and a pair of tweezers. Apple is obligated to warranty their products etc but there is no obligation to allow any schmuck to screw around inside. Especially not when most of them will brick the damn thing and then bitch when Apple won't fix their damage. So yeah Apple is going to do what they can to halt the screwing around, just like they fix holes that allow jailbreaking etc
 
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cambookpro

macrumors 604
Feb 3, 2010
7,189
3,321
United Kingdom
What have you been drinking??:confused:

My MBP w/5400rpm has been used to edit television programmes that are prime time Sunday night jobs on BBC 1/2.

Sure it isn't as quick as a 7200 may be, but the difference really is negligible. The processor will make the bigger difference during rendering.
 

gagaliya

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2010
383
235
I agree with those waiting for a 2nd gen in the case of overheating or other design issues. Heat is enemy #1 if you are doing anything remotely demanding on a machine that stresses form factor over everything else.

what does this mean? if i get a imac 27" with gtx 680mx and try to play a real game like call of duty, does it mean my imac will overheat and not work?
 

quickmac

macrumors 6502
Feb 22, 2011
272
14
Why not? I am amazed at how some Apple product users complain, complain, complain. The things that make Apple a great company: advancement in technology and leading designs, some see as a detriment. I have a Macbook Pro Retina. I purchased the Super Drive thinking I would need it. I wasted $79 + tax. I've yet to use it and don't envision when I will have a need for it.

Yeah now you have a thin laptop and a bulky super drive external drive to carry around. What's wrong with having a laptop with a super drive in it? If you need it it's there, if you don't then no worries it was already in the price of the laptop. Now you've overpaid for a thinner laptop and extra for an accessory that comes standard on most other laptops.

Why not thinner desktops? Because it's clearly form over function. It's the stereotypical "Look how shiny and cool it looks" sales pitch from Apple. They removed components, made a desktop harder to upgrade if needed, and jacked the price a bit. So you pay more for less in essence.
 

Judas1

macrumors 6502a
Aug 4, 2011
794
42
I'm as shallow as the next guy. If the new iMac was actually that thin, then it would be something. But the thinness is just a fascade. What's the point. Looking at it straight on, you can't see how thin it is. Looking from the side, you see that it's not actually that thin. If you're getting one, start training yourself to look at it from an angle.
 

AnonMac50

macrumors 68000
Mar 24, 2010
1,578
324
I don't think this has been posted, but...

Image

are we looking at a future update of OS X? In this image the Menu Bar is all black and the Dock stretches all black across the screen. Also, no HDD icon on the desktop.

Interesting!

I believe it's iPhoto.

EDIT: got beaten twice to it :D
 
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