General Android, just wow.

Saladinos · Nov 27, 2012

viperGTS said:
Already saw those videos. The guy is horribly biased. I've used Android and still prefer iOS over it.

There comes a point when customization is just for the sake of it. This guy likes to repeat how "customizable" Android is, but I think he misses the point of what an OS should be: a platform for apps. Honestly, if I was given too many options to customize, I would go crazy over how I would want the phone to look. I'm perfectly happy with iOS's appearance.

That's my big problem with Android: I'm definitely what you'd call a "power user", so installing custom ROMs and the like isn't a big deal for me. So that's what I did on my galaxy nexus.

That said, it takes so much time to find a good ROM, then they don't have all the tweaks you want, so you either need to patch it in yourself (and support it as the system updates) or look for another ROM.

All in all, you could spend your entire life searching through all the slightly tweaked android variants.

Once you've actually found one though, there's not a whole lot to do on the device. The google play store is still a list of "meh"s. The constant wave of fresh and exciting apps that you get on iOS just doesn't exist on Android. Yes, you can sideload apps, but outside of ridiculously easy piracy I haven't seen a case where that's essential. Maybe that's why the store is so barren.

That's why I'm still with my iPad and my next phone will be an iPhone. You don't spend all your time tweaking how the device should work; you spend your time using it.

dalbir4444 · Nov 27, 2012

dojoman said:
Yeah I understand that...I use iPhone and it has its many faults too but some people are here for a different reason.

----------

Of course you don't since you have Android. You see??? It's not that I don't like it but it's more amusing than annoying.

Like I said, I have no problem if someone criticizes Android reasonably. I dislike when people make blanket statements about any platform, and particularly users of that platform just to boost their own ego.

----------

Saladinos said:
That's my big problem with Android: I'm definitely what you'd call a "power user", so installing custom ROMs and the like isn't a big deal for me. So that's what I did on my galaxy nexus.

That said, it takes so much time to find a good ROM, then they don't have all the tweaks you want, so you either need to patch it in yourself (and support it as the system updates) or look for another ROM.

All in all, you could spend your entire life searching through all the slightly tweaked android variants.

Once you've actually found one though, there's not a whole lot to do on the device. The google play store is still a list of "meh"s. The constant wave of fresh and exciting apps that you get on iOS just doesn't exist on Android. Yes, you can sideload apps, but outside of ridiculously easy piracy I haven't seen a case where that's essential. Maybe that's why the store is so barren.

That's why I'm still with my iPad and my next phone will be an iPhone. You don't spend all your time tweaking how the device should work; you spend your time using it.

I'm not sure how to respond. You don't have to install a custom ROM.

aerok · Nov 27, 2012

dalbir4444 said:
Like I said, I have no problem if someone criticizes Android reasonably. I dislike when people make blanket statements about any platform, and particularly users of that platform just to boost their own ego.

Especially when they come up with the same stupid gibberish of an argument like malware/spyware or Android users are poor.

TacticalDesire · Nov 27, 2012

Last I checked this thread is in the alternatives to iOS section. Yet people are surprised to see critisism?

dalbir4444 · Nov 27, 2012

aerok said:
Especially when they come up with the same stupid gibberish of an argument like malware/spyware or Android users are poor.

When I hear garbage like that, I can immediately tell what kind of person I am dealing with.

aerok · Nov 27, 2012

dalbir4444 said:
When I hear garbage like that, I can immediately tell what kind of person I am dealing with.

Poorer people

I kid

dojoman · Nov 27, 2012

dalbir4444 said:
I'm not sure how to respond. You don't have to install a custom ROM.

Yes you don't have to install a custom ROM but most do because they hate the carrier branding and junks app pre-installed on the Android phone.

walie · Nov 27, 2012

dojoman said:
Yeah I understand that...I use iPhone and it has its many faults too but some people are here for a different reason.

----------

Of course you don't since you have Android. You see??? It's not that I don't like it but it's more amusing than annoying.

I come to this forum mainly because I have an iPad, but I'm kinda turned off of the iPad forums right now because they're awash with "the ipad mini's display doesn't bother me" and "No Retina? iPad mini SUCKS" and the classic "Why I'm STILL sticking with my iPad2" threads. So I come here because I have a Note2

And if you equate criticism with hate, you may not get far in life.

----------

dojoman said:
Yes you don't have to install a custom ROM but most do because they hate the carrier branding and junks app pre-installed on the Android phone.

There are other, much easier ways to get around that. Freezing with Titanium backup and disabling in Android 4.0+ come to mind.

dalbir4444 · Nov 27, 2012

dojoman said:
Yes you don't have to install a custom ROM but most do because they hate the carrier branding and junks app pre-installed on the Android phone.

You don't need to flash ROMs for that. Rooting and titanium backup are your friends. Also, if you are fine with the junk apps just hidden, you don't even need to root. Launchers like Nova allow you to hide apps.

aerok · Nov 27, 2012

dalbir4444 said:
You don't need to flash ROMs for that. Rooting and titanium backup are your friends. Also, if you are fine with the junk apps just hidden, you don't even need to root. Launchers like Nova allow you to hide apps.

Well most Android phones now, you can hide apps using the default homescreen. I know you can on the HTC One series phone and the new line of Galaxy phones.

dalbir4444 · Nov 27, 2012

aerok said:
Well most Android phones now, you can hide apps using the default homescreen. I know you can on the HTC One series phone and the new line of Galaxy phones.

Oh. I didn't know that. I never played around with stock launchers too much. It's not an issue for me either ways. I don't buy my phones from carriers.

Tinmania · Nov 27, 2012

dojoman said:
I honestly don't understand why so many Apple iDevice haters keep coming back to website called Macrumors. Seriously, why are you guys here if you hate all "i" device so much?

I don't understand how someone could mistake MacRumors for iDeviceRumors.

At least try to think it through.

Michael

aerok · Nov 27, 2012

Tinmania said:
I don't understand how someone could mistake MacRumors for iDeviceRumors.

At least try to think it through.

Michael

Think it through? I think you're asking too much from some people here

Saladinos · Nov 27, 2012

dalbir4444 said:
I'm not sure how to respond. You don't have to install a custom ROM.

No you don't have to, but they're basically what all these so-called advantages of Android ultimately boil down to:

- Customisation? Really? Yeah. Install a custom ROM.
- Open-source? Really? Yeah. Install a custom ROM.

You can get alternative launchers, but when I look on the Play store, I don't see an abundance of lots of unique launcher styles. What I see is:

- One (or maybe two) major decent alternatives. Nova and ADW. The rest are too poor to even consider.
- Between these two launchers, they work basically the same way (which is basically the same way the stock Android launcher). There are a few minor tweaks. Most of those tweaks are stupid things (like three-finger gesture shortcuts) that I can't be bothered with. Oh, and those tweaks have to be paid for, too (not complaining, just mentioning).
- No integration. Even if I was interested in trying out a different launcher, there's a huge amount of fatigue here: you're going to have to re-add any widgets, home-screen shortcuts, dock shortcuts, everything. Most of the time it isn't worth it, because most of the launchers are small collections of tweaks over the stock launcher.

In short, it's not a selling point. This is exactly why I switched from Windows to the Mac, and it's exactly what I loved about the Mac: instead of spending all day playing with the system internals to get it to work better, I could spend that time using the product to get stuff done.

It's a masterful bit of design by Apple - by giving people less switches and toggles for menu colours or this or that, you do a couple of really great things:

- You limit the number of things that can go wrong
- You limit the number of things the user can distract themselves with

People want things that are simple (obviously). All un-neccessary complexity removed. Apple have a good understanding of what that means (and in practice, it means less options and less "customisation", but it's harder work because you need to make something that people still find useful).

dalbir4444 · Nov 27, 2012

Saladinos said:
No you don't have to, but they're basically what all these so-called advantages of Android ultimately boil down to:

- Customisation? Really? Yeah. Install a custom ROM.
- Open-source? Really? Yeah. Install a custom ROM.

You can get alternative launchers, but when I look on the Play store, I don't see an abundance of lots of unique launcher styles. What I see is:

- One (or maybe two) major decent alternatives. Nova and ADW. The rest are too poor to even consider.
- Between these two launchers, they work basically the same way (which is basically the same way the stock Android launcher). There are a few minor tweaks. Most of those tweaks are stupid things (like three-finger gesture shortcuts) that I can't be bothered with. Oh, and those tweaks have to be paid for, too (not complaining, just mentioning).
- No integration. Even if I was interested in trying out a different launcher, there's a huge amount of fatigue here: you're going to have to re-add any widgets, home-screen shortcuts, dock shortcuts, everything. Most of the time it isn't worth it, because most of the launchers are small collections of tweaks over the stock launcher.

When I think of customization, I mainly consider the homescreen. You don't really need to flash a new ROM unless you 're looking for completely theming the system, e.g. MIUI.

I don't share your views on different launchers. I decide which launcher I like and customize it once to meet my needs. I've been using Nova for quite some time and feel no need to switch.

In short, it's not a selling point. This is exactly why I switched from Windows to the Mac, and it's exactly what I loved about the Mac:instead of spending all day playing with the system internals to get it to work better, I could spend that time using the product to get stuff done.

People always say this about Android and Windows, but I never did this with either. I took the time to organize everything once to meet my needs, and haven't felt a need to do so again.

It's a masterful bit of design by Apple - by giving people less switches and toggles for menu colours or this or that, you do a couple of really great things:

- You limit the number of things that can go wrong
- You limit the number of things the user can distract themselves with

I don't claim to know the average consumer, and perhaps I'm just different, but I find it strange that giving users the option to change something will cause confusion. It is just an option, not a necessity. Also, the internet is a far bigger distraction than a couple of switches and toggles.

People want things that are simple (obviously). All un-neccessary complexity removed. Apple have a good understanding of what that means (and in practice, it means less options and less "customisation", but it's harder work because you need to make something that people still find useful).

I always hear that Android is harder to use than iOS, but I just don't agree. Android is perfectly usable out of the box. You don't need to tinker around with it.

Note that I'm not trying to convince you that Android is better than iOS, because that's very subjective. Android works better for me on phones, so I'll stick with it. You like iOS better so there's really no reason for you to change. But each have their selling points, otherwise people would only buy iPhones from the high-end spectrum of phones.

LIVEFRMNYC · Nov 27, 2012

Both iOS6 and Android 4.x works just fine out the box when it comes to the basics. Both have the similar first time setup walk thru and the option to add your iCloud/Google account. The main noticeable difference is the level of customization Android has over iOS. This does not make Andriod any more difficult to use. Any difficulty with Android is usually setting up something that doesn't even exist in iOS, and it's by choice. Some users(especially in MR forums) claim Android to be more cumbersome because they try to duplicate exactly what they are used to on iOS. The term "Mac is not a PC" applies to Android and iOS too.

Saladinos · Nov 27, 2012

dalbir4444 said:
I don't claim to know the average consumer, and perhaps I'm just different, but I find it strange that giving users the option to change something will cause confusion. It is just an option, not a necessity. Also, the internet is a far bigger distraction than a couple of switches and toggles.

I never said it was confusing; it's just distracting. Toggles and options aren't a necessity; you said it yourself. They're not zero-cost either: you have to educate and explain to the user the impact of each option - otherwise how would they know if any particular option will solve their problem?

That means options need to be kept limited to only the truly essential; if the list gets too long, you lose discoverability. You also need to be patient and look at other options for solving the same problems - it's hard to take options away after you've put them there (groups of people will inevitably feel that something's been taken from them and be indignant towards the new system).

I do a lot of mobile UI design for my work, and this is the hardest part of it. You have limited screen space, so you need to be extremely selective. Doubly so because touch controls are larger. You need to agonise over every button and menu item. Perfection, as they say, is reached not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

I always hear that Android is harder to use than iOS, but I just don't agree. Android is perfectly usable out of the box. You don't need to tinker around with it.

Note that I'm not trying to convince you that Android is better than iOS, because that's very subjective. Android works better for me on phones, so I'll stick with it. You like iOS better so there's really no reason for you to change. But each have their selling points, otherwise people would only buy iPhones from the high-end spectrum of phones.

I don't particularly find iOS more usable than Android. That is, if you're talking about the vanilla OS. I don't particularly like the Android navigation bar; it's bad on a phone, and worse on a tablet. When it comes to third-party software though, iOS is very, very obviously many miles ahead. Still.

Interesting story: A friend of mine just posted on Facebook that she's going to get a Galaxy S3 as her next phone rather than an iPhone. Upon asking her, I just found out that she doesn't even know what an app is. She's never used the AppStore. Rather alarmingly, she's not the first iPhone-owner I've found who have been blissfully unaware of this whole app business.

walie · Nov 27, 2012

Saladinos said:
No you don't have to, but they're basically what all these so-called advantages of Android ultimately boil down to:

- Customisation? Really? Yeah. Install a custom ROM.
- Open-source? Really? Yeah. Install a custom ROM.

You can get alternative launchers, but when I look on the Play store, I don't see an abundance of lots of unique launcher styles. What I see is:

- One (or maybe two) major decent alternatives. Nova and ADW. The rest are too poor to even consider.
- Between these two launchers, they work basically the same way (which is basically the same way the stock Android launcher). There are a few minor tweaks. Most of those tweaks are stupid things (like three-finger gesture shortcuts) that I can't be bothered with. Oh, and those tweaks have to be paid for, too (not complaining, just mentioning).
- No integration. Even if I was interested in trying out a different launcher, there's a huge amount of fatigue here: you're going to have to re-add any widgets, home-screen shortcuts, dock shortcuts, everything. Most of the time it isn't worth it, because most of the launchers are small collections of tweaks over the stock launcher.

In short, it's not a selling point. This is exactly why I switched from Windows to the Mac, and it's exactly what I loved about the Mac: instead of spending all day playing with the system internals to get it to work better, I could spend that time using the product to get stuff done.

It's a masterful bit of design by Apple - by giving people less switches and toggles for menu colours or this or that, you do a couple of really great things:

- You limit the number of things that can go wrong
- You limit the number of things the user can distract themselves with

People want things that are simple (obviously). All un-neccessary complexity removed. Apple have a good understanding of what that means (and in practice, it means less options and less "customisation", but it's harder work because you need to make something that people still find useful).

When you first use Nova Launcher, you have the option of restoring a layout from a backup or cloning the layout of the current launcher. Completely contradicts your claim, but whatev.

onthecouchagain · Nov 27, 2012

@Saladinos,

Apple offers classes in their stores where people (lots of people) willingly and happily sign up to take. I always see people eager to learn how to use their shiny new device.

Seriously, it's not that hard to implement a toggle or two here, or generally faster access to settings, or allowing attachments in email (this is not an entirely new concept), or any of the other things that would make iOS more usable. Especially as people become more smartphone and tech-literate in this day and age.

You talk about keeping things simple. How is requiring 6 steps to turn on Private Browsing more simple than 2? How is taking 3-4 steps to turn on WiFi more simple than 1? How is not denying control over the keyboard dictionary (which then runs amok) more simple than allowing it? How is tapping into apps to get any information more simple than glancing at your home screen widget(s)? How is having to input your passcode every single time you unlock your iPhone more simple than allowing one to toggle it on when you need the security, and off when you don't (for example, at home, I toggle my lock screen off. Instant access to phone). I could go on and on. I'm sure others could chime in with plenty of examples too.

There's no two ways about it. You're making excuses for iOS' shortcomings. And the notion that people won't get it or somehow can't learn a few more features here and there is the poorest excuse of them all. Hey, why does Apple bother adding new features at all, if they really fear people not knowing how to use them? Come on now.

siiip5 · Nov 27, 2012

dojoman said:
Yes you don't have to install a custom ROM but most do because they hate the carrier branding and junks app pre-installed on the Android phone.

Not true either. You simply need to root the device to get access to the systems root directory. ROM, Kernal and bootloader can remain untouched. People prefer this option over installing custom roms, because it is easier.

siiip5 · Nov 27, 2012

Saladinos said:
No you don't have to, but they're basically what all these so-called advantages of Android ultimately boil down to:

- Customisation? Really? Yeah. Install a custom ROM.
- Open-source? Really? Yeah. Install a custom ROM.

You can get alternative launchers, but when I look on the Play store, I don't see an abundance of lots of unique launcher styles. What I see is:

- One (or maybe two) major decent alternatives. Nova and ADW. The rest are too poor to even consider.
- Between these two launchers, they work basically the same way (which is basically the same way the stock Android launcher). There are a few minor tweaks. Most of those tweaks are stupid things (like three-finger gesture shortcuts) that I can't be bothered with. Oh, and those tweaks have to be paid for, too (not complaining, just mentioning).
- No integration. Even if I was interested in trying out a different launcher, there's a huge amount of fatigue here: you're going to have to re-add any widgets, home-screen shortcuts, dock shortcuts, everything. Most of the time it isn't worth it, because most of the launchers are small collections of tweaks over the stock launcher.

In short, it's not a selling point. This is exactly why I switched from Windows to the Mac, and it's exactly what I loved about the Mac: instead of spending all day playing with the system internals to get it to work better, I could spend that time using the product to get stuff done.

It's a masterful bit of design by Apple - by giving people less switches and toggles for menu colours or this or that, you do a couple of really great things:

- You limit the number of things that can go wrong
- You limit the number of things the user can distract themselves with

People want things that are simple (obviously). All un-neccessary complexity removed. Apple have a good understanding of what that means (and in practice, it means less options and less "customisation", but it's harder work because you need to make something that people still find useful).

No need for a custom rom. Download the SPB launcher. Looks like this;

IOS is stale, outdated, a bunch of dead icons lacking mobility or user preferenced data. This is just one of 3 launchers I can use on a whim. Apex is the other.

dalbir4444 · Nov 28, 2012

Saladinos said:
Interesting story: A friend of mine just posted on Facebook that she's going to get a Galaxy S3 as her next phone rather than an iPhone. Upon asking her, I just found out that she doesn't even know what an app is. She's never used the AppStore. Rather alarmingly, she's not the first iPhone-owner I've found who have been blissfully unaware of this whole app business.

Come on. Those kind of people exist on both sides. I know some people that use their iPhone just to make calls and message.

Pjstock42 · Nov 28, 2012

siiip5 said:
No need for a custom rom. Download the SPB launcher. Looks like this;

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

IOS is stale, outdated, a bunch of dead icons lacking mobility or user preferenced data. This is just one of 3 launchers I can use on a whim. Apex is the other.

Sorry but that just looks ridiculous and completely impractical. I feel as though I would think this is "cool" if I were a 6th grade boy...

cynics · Nov 28, 2012

Pjstock42 said:
Sorry but that just looks ridiculous and completely impractical. I feel as though I would think this is "cool" if I were a 6th grade boy...

You could always use an iOS launcher.

Doesn't require root nor is it not popular at all but its a choice you have. BTW there is irony to be found when you insult someone's choice by saying it looks like something a child would like....

siiip5 · Nov 28, 2012

Pjstock42 said:
Sorry but that just looks ridiculous and completely impractical. I feel as though I would think this is "cool" if I were a 6th grade boy...

Well then, you are in luck with iOS. It was dsigned for 5th graders.

My pont wasn't about style, but what you can do. The myriad of option that you don't have, ;hat Android users do. I understand your need to lash out. That is what happens when envy kicks in. Ipbone is a POS, and more and more people are realizi g it.

General Android, just wow.

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