Windows 8 Disaster

[Switchback666]

Originally Posted by MonkeySee....

I'm getting onto a month and Windows 8 is excellent except for the Start Menu.

Sad but true. I'm glad you're liking it but you're in the minority.

And just dont see why is it bad

[MonkeySee....]

Originally Posted by Switchback666

And just dont see why is it bad

I feel its not nice on a desktop. Everything opens full screen and I like my windows

[SimplyMac2012]

Personally i tried Windows 8 on my Mac using Parralles and i thought what a waste of time the operating system was it lasted no more than 30 mins and i removed it.

Microsoft will not be as good as OSX

[throAU]

Originally Posted by mKTank

That's probably because most of them are hipsters in Starbucks. Windows 8 has thus far outpaced 7 in sales.

citation needed.

Microsoft has admitted that win8 sales are below expectations so i'm not sure where you're pulling that from.

And the start screen is only the tip of the iceberg.

There are deal breaker type problems, just a few i've noticed so far (I'm running it in a VM and trying to use it day to day at work as I'll be forced onto it to support server 2012 - the admin tools only work on win8). I'm also the guy who builds our SOE and the deployment infrastructure.

• search is vastly inferior to Win7 - you can't specify date ranges in the metro search, or search all content types. you can do that if you drop back to the classic explorer search in the desktop, but that can't search metro file types. there is NO WAY to search for all references to something across all document types. this is a massive deal breaker for me
• the sandboxed metro apps can't talk to each other at all. say i want to send an IM to a contact. IM client has no ability to see my contacts. contacts app has no way to send the contact to the metro IM program
• remote desktop sessions rely on hitting the tiny little corners to use the GUI - which sucks if you don't run the session full screen. which you probably don't want to do because you may have reference material or another program open that you are using to make changes and view the effect in the remote session
• the only way to run multiple apps in different windows on the same screen is via the classic desktop. which has a totally different UI paradigm to metro. so you're constantly forced to switch between 2 different UIs to get anything done. no, metro's side-by-side feature where one app is forced to run in a tiny strip and you only use 2 apps at the same time is not a substitute

There's a reason OS X and iOS have different UIs and only some aspects have been ported. It's because touch (on the screen) does not work on a desktop.

Microsoft haven't figured that out yet.


But hey, they get to add a feature-list tickbox to the promo material of "fully touch enabled!" or some such crap.

Microsoft made a full-screen only GUI application launcher before, that sucked. It was called dosshell.


Don't get me wrong - i'm all for the kernel, powershell and remote administration improvements in Win8. It's just such a shame they've gone backwards in so many of the areas of the OS that you actually have to use day to day.

[MJL]

Originally Posted by SimplyMac2012

Personally i tried Windows 8 on my Mac using Parralles and i thought what a waste of time the operating system was it lasted no more than 30 mins and i removed it.

Microsoft will not be as good as OSX

OS X will not be as good as Windows 7 in a business environment - of course it depends what business that is.

Windows 8 is not yet supported by bootcamp and could not get it to work properly one two different Mac mini's (2010 server and 2011 base), different issues. It can be configured to be almost the same look and feel as Windows 7, the Metro interface is basically an add-on although under the hood it may well have large changes.

[mKTank]

Originally Posted by throAU

citation needed.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/27/w...n-copies-sold/

"To date, Windows 8 is outpacing Windows 7 in terms of upgrades, but given that the company had moved 600 million copies of the latter back in June, the new kid on the software block still has quite a ways to go."

As the only way to get Windows 8 through Microsoft's is to get an upgrade copy, it's irrelevant to mention that it's a milestone reached by upgrade copies.


All other complains are either you not being used to something or whinging about limitations of some extra portion of the OS that you don't have to use, such as Metro apps. I think for somebody so resistant to change, OSX suits you perfectly because it's the same crap every year with a different shade of lipstick. Microsoft took a big bet with Windows 8 and will win big as a result. You'll see.

[MJL]

Originally Posted by throAU

citation needed.

Microsoft has admitted that win8 sales are below expectations so i'm not sure where you're pulling that from.

And the start screen is only the tip of the iceberg.

There are deal breaker type problems, just a few i've noticed so far (I'm running it in a VM and trying to use it day to day at work as I'll be forced onto it to support server 2012 - the admin tools only work on win8). I'm also the guy who builds our SOE and the deployment infrastructure.

• search is vastly inferior to Win7 - you can't specify date ranges in the metro search, or search all content types. you can do that if you drop back to the classic explorer search in the desktop, but that can't search metro file types. there is NO WAY to search for all references to something across all document types. this is a massive deal breaker for me
• the sandboxed metro apps can't talk to each other at all. say i want to send an IM to a contact. IM client has no ability to see my contacts. contacts app has no way to send the contact to the metro IM program
• remote desktop sessions rely on hitting the tiny little corners to use the GUI - which sucks if you don't run the session full screen. which you probably don't want to do because you may have reference material or another program open that you are using to make changes and view the effect in the remote session
• the only way to run multiple apps in different windows on the same screen is via the classic desktop. which has a totally different UI paradigm to metro. so you're constantly forced to switch between 2 different UIs to get anything done. no, metro's side-by-side feature where one app is forced to run in a tiny strip and you only use 2 apps at the same time is not a substitute

There's a reason OS X and iOS have different UIs and only some aspects have been ported. It's because touch (on the screen) does not work on a desktop.

Microsoft haven't figured that out yet.


But hey, they get to add a feature-list tickbox to the promo material of "fully touch enabled!" or some such crap.

Microsoft made a full-screen only GUI application launcher before, that sucked. It was called dosshell.


Don't get me wrong - i'm all for the kernel, powershell and remote administration improvements in Win8. It's just such a shame they've gone backwards in so many of the areas of the OS that you actually have to use day to day.

There is already an aftermarket "start menu" button to give you back the classic Windows 7 interface. Don't know about the corners with remote sessions but using the windows key will change interface (supposedly it replaced the start button - the suggestion is to see the Metro as the old start menu) The thing that irritated me the most is that now more mouse clicks are required to do the same thing e.g. shutting down. A visual irritation was that the border width of the windows has a fixed setting and needs to be changed by fiddling in the registry. ("paddedborderwidth" is set to -60 and needs to be set to 0 or -1 in order to make then as thin as possible - I like my screen real estate and not have it filling it up with windows that have thick lines)

[throAU]

Originally Posted by MJL

There is already an aftermarket "start menu" button to give you back the classic Windows 7 interface.

As I said, the start-menu thing is barely scratching the surface of the problems.

And running third party shareware in an enterprise production environment is really not a good idea, support wise.



----------

Originally Posted by mKTank

All other complains are either you not being used to something or whinging about limitations of some extra portion of the OS that you don't have to use, such as Metro apps.

Metro is microsoft's direction for future apps. sticking your head in the sand and saying "you don't have to use it" is being shortsighted.

resistant to change? nah, dude - I was the one pushing vista and windows 7 out to our company. the vista/7 federated, os-wide search was a massive win. I'm the one here driving the switch to powershell for remote administration. i'm the one willing to run whatever OS is appropriate on firewalls, mail servers, etc.

change is good if it is an improvement. in many areas that matter, windows 8 is NOT an improvement.

Sure, if all you do is facebook and email win8 is probably great. for actually getting real work done, it is a disaster.

I'm sure its great on a tablet, too. My desktop is not a tablet.

[talmy]

I'm frightened because I teach a class that uses commercial CAD software that has been found to not yet work on Windows 8. This should not be a surprise -- professional environments never jump on new OSes or software without thorough testing first.

However I fear that some students might be getting brand new Windows 8 PCs for the holidays. Their new computers will be doorstops (paperweights?) as far as the course software is concerned.

There was a similar problem when Windows 7 came out. All home computers came with 64-bit Windows 7 while businesses generally went with 32-bit Windows 7 because of compatibility problems. You guessed it!

[MJL]

Originally Posted by throAU

As I said, the start-menu thing is barely scratching the surface of the problems.

And running third party shareware in an enterprise production environment is really not a good idea, support wise.

[COLOR="#808080"].....

I'm sure its great on a tablet, too. My desktop is not a tablet.

Totally agree (used to be a hardware and software systems architect, last project: 120M USD) so I completely understand wehre you are coming from.

I tried OS X but reverted back to Windows because some essential programs that I use are only working under windows and the lagging and performance in a virtual machine is unacceptable.

Have been experimenting with Windows 8 and it is getting a little better but still not happy. I like the improved security.

By the way - when I replaced the internal 5400 rpm HDD with a Samsung 830 SSD I managed to install 32 bit fine. Later I installed 64 bit and that was better than last time but still some issues with an audio driver. The Samsung SSD management software complains that it is not in AHCI, grr.... may have to reinstall again and see if I can get that working.

[Miharu]

This is sort of funny, but I totally skipped over W7. Now I got W8 in my iMac and I've learned how to use it. Recently I had to install some printers in my workplace to W7 machines, and I found that the old start menu was soo much cleaner, faster ans better, especially the search. You can just stay in one screen all the time. The new metro apps are all just cell phone apps, nothing more. Why would anyone use them?

[Ccrew]

Originally Posted by mKTank

Any enterprise network admin worth a crap would use Linux. Mac Server is trash.

Might want to check your pocket protector.

I didn't like Win8 out of the gate either. Forced myself to use it and it's honestly not that bad. It has an identity crisis, but it does work.

What I can't understand is why they didn't integrate Office 2013 into it - it still runs at the desktop. And Exchange 2010 EMC console doesn't work on it yet. That's a pretty big fail for me with 3400 users