Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Systems and Services > Windows, Linux & Others on the Mac

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Oct 13, 2012, 12:37 PM   #101
JoelBC
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post
Fences looks pretty col. (Looks like a Linux KDE plasma desktop ripoff).
Yes, it is a very useful applications...if you are running Windows as a VM in OS X would you mind testing whether or not it works...TIA!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post
Anyway, I have lots of icons on my windows desktop too. But, almost nothing on my Mac. I dunno, it's just easier to find and launch stuff on the Mac I guess. You could make a folder and put it on your doc, and drag links to files you want in there. That would sort of give you the fence box, but it would live on your dock.
I could probably live with that...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post
But, between the doc and the fast spotlight search (which is how I launch and find most of my docs/programs), you may find you don't clutter up your desktop on the Mac. It's weird, I never really noticed the difference before, but I have just naturally not loaded up my Mac desktop with a bunch of crap like my Windows box...
Time will tell...
JoelBC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 15, 2012, 03:26 AM   #102
denzaltrueman
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
A little bit off subject perhaps but can I just discuss that VirtualBox is a fantastic option to Commonalities or VMWare Combination. It's deceased easy to use, performs remarkably and most essential, it's no cost. The other two items are not and in the situation of Commonalities, quite costly.
denzaltrueman is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:50 PM   #103
JoelBC
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
I know it has been a while but I have finally taken the plunge.... http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...7#post16356047
JoelBC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2012, 10:48 PM   #104
pennant
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelBC View Post
Apologies to the extent that this is covered elsewhere but I have not been able to find the answers despite spending some time searching...

I have been a Windows user for 20+ years and am considering moving from a Windows 7 /8 environment to a Mac OS X lion / Mountain Lion environment...

The one issue that is keeping me from moving is the loss of functionality which -- based on my research to date -- could come in a number of ways:

1. New paradigm...I am extremely familiar with Windows, have my laptop extensively customized for how I like to work and know where essentially every file is and what it does...though I will not have this were I to make the move this does not concern me as it will come with time, particularly with assistance through this forum...


2. Programs...I have 5 to 10 key programs that are Windows based for which a) there are no Mac versions[i.e. Quicken 2012, DVD Profilerm dBPoweramp, etc.] or b) for which I do not know whether there are suitable equivalents / replacements [i.e. VPN application in my Cisco server [i.e.The GreenBow], screen capture and print [i.e. MWSnap], etc.]...I have read about parallels but have never seen it in action...I would appreciate any comments / insight into:

-- will I have full functionality of my Windows applications [i.e. does Parallels really work as advertised]?

-- will I have issue regarding file formats [i.e. how are Windows file formats treated with a Mac environment]? will I have to have different folders for my mac files and my windows files or can they be stored together? does Parallels really work as advertised and what is better merging or keeping separate the Mac folders / Windows folders and why?

-- will parallels allow me to use the scan capability of my multi-function HP LaserJet 3390 as there appears to me no Mac OS scan driver for it?w

3. Software feature...will there be a loss of functionality...for example -- and without explaining why -- I current save / store all my Windows Outlook files as *.msg files as I rename name to ease their organization and search capabilities...will this be doable in the Mac environment [i.e. were I to purchase Outlook for Mac would I continue to have the capability to drag my Outlook based e-mails to a folder and rename them...would Outlook for Mac be able to pen my old *.msg files, etc.]

Though I am willing to invest the time and effort to make the switch I do not want to either lose functionality or spend an endless amount of time fighting files formats, Mac versus Windows difference, etc. and, to this end, would appreciate any and all assistance that can be provided in a) answers my above asks and b) providing additional insights as a lot seems to depend on how well Parallel actually works.

Thanks,


Joel
I switched from a PC to a Mac about 2 months ago. The information relating to Parallels suggested full functionality of Windows based programmes on the iMac, but that is simply not the case. I had Windows 7 installed and running under Parallels but despite spending a huge amount of time, I could not achieve full functionality of the Windows based programmes running under Parallels. I have since quit using Parallels altogether as the programme does not live up to the sales hype.

Switching to a Mac has reduced dramatically the functionality that I previously had on a PC, but I think that is because I expected the Mac to be able to perform as my PC did. But the Mac operates differently and in many areas is better than a PC. So if you decide to switch, my suggestion would be to abandon Windows based programmes and find alternative Apple applications that can provide the functionality that your require.

Trying to achieve dual functionality on the Mac has driven me to distraction!!
If I had known what I now know about the Mac and Parallels, I would never have bought a Mac!!

regards

John
pennant is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2012, 11:57 PM   #105
murphychris
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post
I could not achieve full functionality of the Windows based programmes running under Parallels.
For example?
murphychris is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 02:01 AM   #106
pennant
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphychris View Post
For example?
I installed Page Plus X6 and tried opening files that I had copied accross. These only partially opened and I lost index functions, foot-notes, cross references and some graphics. The file I opened was a book I had written using Page Plus with some 220 pages of text and graphics.

I tried installing SAGE Accounting, but the programme would not install at all using Windows under Parallels, although the same SAGE software installed ran perfectly under a Windows PC.

I installed Coffee Cup programmes such as Visual Site Designer and Shopping Cart Creator Pro, under Parallels but could not upload files to my website despite the fact the server settings and other protocols were identical to those that I have on a PC.

I installed Microsoft Office suite under Windows 7 running under Parallels, but even basic files such as Word and Excel were affected by the Mac operating system. For example I set the date formats under the Control Panel in Windows, but these settings were over-ridden by the default System Preferences on Mac. I had day/month/year format set in Windows but that changed to month/day/year so that 1st June 2012 changed to 6th January 2012 and of course since many files were sorted by date it scrambled the data! Simple to correct, once you realsie what was causing the problem, but annoying and quite irritating until you find out what is wrong. Since the date formats were affected by the Mac System Preferences, it is reasonable to assume that other Mac System Preferences would also affect programmes and files operating under Windows 7 in Parallels.

I also had trouble accessing files that were in folders under Finder. Sometimes they opened and other times they did not. I eventually copied the files to the simulated C:/ drive in the Parallels Virtual Machine and then they all opened OK, but I then could not access those files from Finder.

In the end I gave up trying to get the Mac to operate like a PC. It is just too time-consuming and frustrating.

John
pennant is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 12:17 PM   #107
murphychris
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post
I installed Page Plus X6 and tried opening files that I had copied accross. These only partially opened and I lost index functions, foot-notes, cross references and some graphics.
But this same app, same document, work as expected on the same hardware if you natively boot Windows instead of booting it in a VM?

Quote:
I tried installing SAGE Accounting, but the programme would not install at all using Windows under Parallels, although the same SAGE software installed ran perfectly under a Windows PC.
Different hardware though too in this example. Does it work when natively booting the Mac into Windows? You can't for sure say it's a VM problem if you haven't produced a successful case on the same hardware with the same software and documents.

Likewise did you try a different VM? What you're describing sounds like apps that are not well abstracted. In enterprise, companies run dozens to hundreds of VM's on a single machine simultaneously, each with hundreds of processes, without the problems you describe.

Quote:
I installed Coffee Cup programmes such as Visual Site Designer and Shopping Cart Creator Pro, under Parallels but could not upload files to my website despite the fact the server settings and other protocols were identical to those that I have on a PC.
Was the guest using NAT to the host network, or bridged such that it was getting its own IP like a real PC would? It's common for VM's to default to NAT not bridged mode.

Quote:
I installed Microsoft Office suite under Windows 7 running under Parallels, but even basic files such as Word and Excel were affected by the Mac operating system. For example I set the date formats under the Control Panel in Windows, but these settings were over-ridden by the default System Preferences on Mac.
File date and time is file system metadata. The date format setting only affects how the metadata is displayed, not how it's stored on disk.

Quote:
I had day/month/year format set in Windows but that changed to month/day/year so that 1st June 2012 changed to 6th January 2012 and of course since many files were sorted by date it scrambled the data! Simple to correct, once you realsie what was causing the problem, but annoying and quite irritating until you find out what is wrong. Since the date formats were affected by the Mac System Preferences, it is reasonable to assume that other Mac System Preferences would also affect programmes and files operating under Windows 7 in Parallels.
Date formats shown precisely where in Windows were affected by precisely which System Preference setting? I've never seen such manifestation in three versions of Windows and a dozen versions of Linux in VMs.

Quote:
I also had trouble accessing files that were in folders under Finder. Sometimes they opened and other times they did not.
Folder sharing is sometimes wonky in the guest OS, but from within the host those folders are owned by the host's owner. Not the VM. So I don't understand this.

Quote:
I eventually copied the files to the simulated C:/ drive in the Parallels Virtual Machine and then they all opened OK, but I then could not access those files from Finder.
You discussed this, and other problems, with Parallels support and they said what?
murphychris is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 02:59 PM   #108
MJL
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post
I switched from a PC to a Mac about 2 months ago. The information relating to Parallels suggested full functionality of Windows based programmes on the iMac, but that is simply not the case. I had Windows 7 installed and running under Parallels but despite spending a huge amount of time, I could not achieve full functionality of the Windows based programmes running under Parallels. I have since quit using Parallels altogether as the programme does not live up to the sales hype.

Switching to a Mac has reduced dramatically the functionality that I previously had on a PC, but I think that is because I expected the Mac to be able to perform as my PC did. But the Mac operates differently and in many areas is better than a PC. So if you decide to switch, my suggestion would be to abandon Windows based programmes and find alternative Apple applications that can provide the functionality that your require.

Trying to achieve dual functionality on the Mac has driven me to distraction!!
If I had known what I now know about the Mac and Parallels, I would never have bought a Mac!!

regards

John
Similar situation here - switched last year July (2011). Could not even get Parallels to work properly on the 2010 and later 2011 Mac mini. VMware Fusion worked without any installation issues however function keys did not work the same and drove me nuts. Unfortunately the marketing statements of being almost as fast as native is just hype - stuttering, unexpected lock ups were the clincher - I just could not run a time critical commercial application in that way.

Windows is now running mission critical 24/5 during the week in bootcamp. OS X is used in the weekends and is used for imaging the windows partition with winclone. During the week windows data is backed up regularly with FBackup (free version, Backup4All paid version).

I stuck with the Mac mini because of the low noise, low energy consumption and compactness with a minimum of external gadgets required.
MJL is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 03:52 PM   #109
JoelBC
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post
I switched from a PC to a Mac about 2 months ago. The information relating to Parallels suggested full functionality of Windows based programmes on the iMac, but that is simply not the case. I had Windows 7 installed and running under Parallels but despite spending a huge amount of time, I could not achieve full functionality of the Windows based programmes running under Parallels. I have since quit using Parallels altogether as the programme does not live up to the sales hype.
I am sorry to hear that…I do hope that my experience is somewhat better than your but only time will tell.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post
Switching to a Mac has reduced dramatically the functionality that I previously had on a PC, but I think that is because I expected the Mac to be able to perform as my PC did. But the Mac operates differently and in many areas is better than a PC. So if you decide to switch, my suggestion would be to abandon Windows based programmes and find alternative Apple applications that can provide the functionality that your require.
I would appreciate you expanding on why the switch dramatically reduced the functionality as one would think that that one would have nonetheless been able to accomplish one’s tasks.

I would further appreciate you expanding on the ways in which a Mac operates “differently but better” than a PC.

It is my intention to replace as many as of my Windows programs by Mac programs but, that said, I will continue to need to run a core of Windows programs and there is truthfully no way around this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post

If I had known what I now know about the Mac and Parallels, I would never have bought a Mac!!
Wow, that is a fairly strong statement…would you please elaborate on this.

Thanks,


Joel
JoelBC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 05:26 PM   #110
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: HEY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelBC View Post
Wow, that is a fairly strong statement…would you please elaborate on this.
I'm not him, but from the sound of things, it seems like he was expecting full functionality out of a virtual machine, which just ain't gonna happen.

I'd suggest thinking of "switching" to a Mac the way I do. You'll likely be using OSX first time out the gate. It is, after all, one of the two major reasons why most people make the jump. But what if you don't like it? Think it's nice to use, but maybe a little too simple for your tastes. It doesn't do everything you want it to.

That's no big deal. A Mac is just an x86 machine. You could wipe OSX off entirely, and having a fancy, well built PC instead. There's nothing stopping you from running Windows by itself, so you're not really losing anything in the transition (well, besides maybe having a slightly higher specced laptop for a little bit less).

The only issue I have with Apple and Macs is their lower end offerings tend to be overpriced. Like the 13" rMBP. The screen's nice, sure, but the hardware in the machine itself isn't really all that great. It's a glorified Air, and only $200 less than the much more capable and reasonably priced (for what you're getting) 15" rMBP.

So if you go with a Mac, don't skimp around. Pay the extra cash and go straight for the high end offerings. Even though it's more expensive in the short term, you're getting much more bang for the buck.
Renzatic is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 05:44 PM   #111
murphychris
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
That's no big deal. A Mac is just an x86 machine. You could wipe OSX off entirely, and having a fancy, well built PC instead. There's nothing stopping you from running Windows by itself, so you're not really losing anything in the transition (well, besides maybe having a slightly higher specced laptop for a little bit less).
That's not exactly true. The prescribed method of getting Windows 7 to work on Apple hardware depends on CSM-BIOS booting, rather than EFI. And Apple's EFI isn't based on UEFI 2.x, it's derived from Intel EFI 1.10 which technically isn't supported by Microsoft. So you're actually stuck in limbo where Microsoft can say they don't support the hardware and Apple will say they don't support Windows.

CSM-BIOS has some limitations when it comes to power management, and possibly SATA performance as well. So running a different OS in CSM-BIOS mode makes the OS a 2nd class citizen on Apple hardware.

Some people are finding it's easier to get Windows 8 to EFI boot Apple hardware than Windows 7. But again even that's going to be unsupported by both Microsoft and Apple.

Quote:
The only issue I have with Apple and Macs is their lower end offerings tend to be overpriced.
If there's really some concern with transitioning, another way around this with a lower risk is to get a used Mac, commit to using it for a month and then decide. A used Mac price has already taken most of the hit on the price premium, and can be sold for nearly what it was bought at.
murphychris is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 06:05 PM   #112
JoelBC
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I'm not him, but from the sound of things, it seems like he was expecting full functionality out of a virtual machine, which just ain't gonna happen.
And why not…in preparation for running a VM in OS X I have been running both Windows 7 and Windows 8 VMs on a Windows 7 host using VirtualBox and I have had no problems whatsoever…this, rightfully or wrongfully, has created similar expectation in OS X.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I'd suggest thinking of "switching" to a Mac the way I do. You'll likely be using OSX first time out the gate. It is, after all, one of the two major reasons why most people make the jump. But what if you don't like it? Think it's nice to use, but maybe a little too simple for your tastes. It doesn't do everything you want it to.
And what do you mean by a little too simple and what, in your experience, do you think that I will not be able to do in OS X that I can do in Windows?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
That's no big deal. A Mac is just an x86 machine. You could wipe OSX off entirely, and having a fancy, well-built PC instead. There's nothing stopping you from running Windows by itself, so you're not really losing anything in the transition (well, besides maybe having a slightly higher specced laptop for a little bit less).
In the event that I do not like working with OS X I will be returning the MBA and getting either an Asus Zenbook or a Samsung Series 9 which to me are very good ultrabooks that cost a lot less than the MBA.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
The only issue I have with Apple and Macs is their lower end offerings tend to be overpriced. Like the 13" rMBP. T he screen's nice, sure, but the hardware in the machine itself isn't really all that great. It's a glorified MBA, and only $200 less than the much more capable and reasonably priced (for what you're getting) 15" rMBP.

So if you go with a Mac, don't skimp around. Pay the extra cash and get the high end. Even though it's more expensive in the short term, you're getting much more bang for the buck.
This is exactly the reason that I went with a fairly speced MBA…I went with a i7 / 8GB / 256 GB unit…I purposely did not go for the rMBP as I did not want a generation 1 retina display with all the issues that some have been experiencing, I did not want to pay the retina premium, etc.

I also concluded that in the event that I do not like working with a Mac or I want aretina when the second generations are released I figure I will be able to get most of my money back on this unit plus, I had to buy something, as I no longer had a useable computer.

Thanks,


Joel
JoelBC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 06:13 PM   #113
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: HEY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphychris View Post
That's not exactly true. The prescribed method of getting Windows 7 to work on Apple hardware depends on CSM-BIOS booting, rather than EFI. And Apple's EFI isn't based on UEFI 2.x, it's derived from Intel EFI 1.10 which technically isn't supported by Microsoft. So you're actually stuck in limbo where Microsoft can say they don't support the hardware and Apple will say they don't support Windows.

CSM-BIOS has some limitations when it comes to power management, and possibly SATA performance as well. So running a different OS in CSM-BIOS mode makes the OS a 2nd class citizen on Apple hardware.
Hmm. That is true. I didn't account for that. But...

Quote:
Some people are finding it's easier to get Windows 8 to EFI boot Apple hardware than Windows 7. But again even that's going to be unsupported by both Microsoft and Apple.
It's rather doubtful MS will drop support for a piece of modern hardware completely, as they would prefer you use their OS, regardless of the hardware it's running on. While it might not be officially supported (and thus caveat emptor), I doubt you'll ever run into a situation where it flat out doesn't work. At least not as long as Apple supports x86 hardware.
Renzatic is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 06:37 PM   #114
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: HEY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelBC View Post
And why not…in preparation for running a VM in OS X I have been running both Windows 7 and Windows 8 VMs on a Windows 7 host using VirtualBox and I have had no problems whatsoever…this, rightfully or wrongfully, has created similar expectation in OS X.
I guess it depends on what you're running, and what your expectations exactly are. Older or less hardware intensive programs run just fine on a VM. Games or high end editors? Yeah...there's no way in hell I'd want to use those in Parallels.

Quote:
And what do you mean by a little too simple and what, in your experience, do you think that I will not be able to do in OS X that I can do in Windows?
I honestly can't think of anything myself. In general, I find OSX and Windows pretty interchangeable. Anything I can do in one, I can do in the other. Though some people do prefer Windows as it offers more granular control over every little thing in the OS. This is opposed to OSX, which is more streamlined and user friendly out of the box, but doesn't give you quite as much access to the underpinnings.

In other words, if you don't like something in Windows, you can probably find a way to change it. In OSX, you're stuck with the Apple way of doing things. This isn't all that bad if you like the Apple way (which is a more than decent way of doing things), but if you don't...well...hell...

Quote:
In the event that I do not like working with OS X I will be returning the MBA and getting either an Asus Zenbook or a Samsung Series 9 which to me are very good ultrabooks that cost a lot less than the MBA.
Are the Zenbooks less expensive now? I thought they were about the same price, give or take a hundred bucks or so.

I will recommend sticking with it for at least a couple of weeks to get the feel of things. You know how you hear all these people talking about how OSX is so easy? How it's immediate natural with no learning curve whatsoever? That's not really totally and complete true. It's an easy to use OS and all, but there's a transitional curve to everything new. If you're used to doing things the Windows way (lots of time in Explorer, doing things by hand, programs actually closing when you hit the X...), then OSX is going to seem clunky and limited in comparison. I hated it when I first tried it. Once I got used to the automatedness of it, I came to appreciate what Apple was going for. You don't have to spend quite as much time with background tasks as you do with Windows.

As for the rest, I'm waiting on Gen 2 of the rMBP myself. Though that new 27" iMac has been tempting the hell out of me. 99% of the power of a full on desktop, without all those cords and extra bits and pieces.

...damn, that'd be nice. Almost worth having to buy some suction cups to replace the harddrive with.
Renzatic is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 08:23 PM   #115
JoelBC
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I guess it depends on what you're running, and what your expectations exactly are. Older or less hardware intensive programs run just fine on a VM. Games or high end editors? Yeah...there's no way in hell I'd want to use those in Parallels.
This should not be a problem as the apps that I need to run in Parallels are things like MS Office (including Outlook), Quicken, and the like...nothing too hardware intensive...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I honestly can't think of anything myself. In general, I find OSX and Windows pretty interchangeable. Anything I can do in one, I can do in the other. Though some people do prefer Windows as it offers more granular control over every little thing in the OS. This is opposed to OSX, which is more streamlined and user friendly out of the box, but doesn't give you quite as much access to the underpinnings.

In other words, if you don't like something in Windows, you can probably find a way to change it. In OSX, you're stuck with the Apple way of doing things. This isn't all that bad if you like the Apple way (which is a more than decent way of doing things), but if you don't...well...hell...
I think it is a matter of being open minded to learning my way around...I also think that to the extent I can get the desktop / work spaces configures to my liking that it will be fine but, of course, time will tell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Are the Zenbooks less expensive now? I thought they were about the same price, give or take a hundred bucks or so.
Yes, they are less costly that the Macs



Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I will recommend sticking with it for at least a couple of weeks to get the feel of things. You know how you hear all these people talking about how OS X is so easy? How it's immediate natural with no learning curve whatsoever? That's not really totally and complete true. It's an easy to use OS and all, but there's a transitional curve to everything new. If you're used to doing things the Windows way (lots of time in Explorer, doing things by hand, programs actually closing when you hit the X...), then OS X is going to seem clunky and limited in comparison. I hated it when I first tried it. Once I got used to the automatedness of it, I came to appreciate what Apple was going for. You don't have to spend quite as much time with background tasks as you do with Windows.
Well, that is the plan with 2 weeks of intensive setup and use even at the expense of sleep because I am very busy at work...I hope to find it a fairly easy transition as I really do not have the energy to be frustrated...I have done a lot of reading and feel that I am well prepared for what is about to come but time will tell...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
As for the rest, I'm waiting on Gen 2 of the rMBP myself. Though that new 27" iMac has been tempting the hell out of me. 99% of the power of a full on desktop, without all those cords and extra bits and pieces.

...damn, that'd be nice. Almost worth having to buy some suction cups to replace the harddrive with.
Great minds think alike....


Thanks,


Joel
JoelBC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 08:41 PM   #116
pennant
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelBC View Post




Wow, that is a fairly strong statement…would you please elaborate on this.

Thanks,


Joel
I consider myself fairly competent using a PC and if I bought a brand new PC, I would be pretty much fully functional within one day of setting up the machine. Once I had Windows 7 installed under Parallels, I thought it would take me about a day or so to get everything functioning properly, but after 4-5 weeks of struggling with it and finding that I could not get my key Windows programmes to function correctly. I gave up!

I had a PC running beside the Mac so that I could compare settings, protocols etc., but just could not get programmes such as Page Plus X6 or Visual Site Designer, Shopping Cart Creator Pro to function properly using Windows 7 under Parallels. I was also unable to install SAGE Accounting.

I eventually uninstalled Parallels and did a hard-disk partition using Bootcamp, then installed Windows 7 to the partition. But during that proceess I lost all the drivers and spent ages trying to find the correct drivers for all the hardware in the Mac. I also managed to crash the Mac Operating System and had to finally go to the Recovery Disk to re-install the Mac OS.

So I have concluded that if I want to enjoy the Mac experience I should just use software designed for the Mac and not try to get it to operate like a PC.

In hindsight, I could have bought a new PC for half the price of a Mac! Saved myself a bundle of cash and hours, upon hours of frustration trying to get my software to run under Parallels.

John
pennant is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 09:13 PM   #117
pennant
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphychris View Post
But this same app, same document, work as expected on the same hardware if you natively boot Windows instead of booting it in a VM?



Different hardware though too in this example. Does it work when natively booting the Mac into Windows? You can't for sure say it's a VM problem if you haven't produced a successful case on the same hardware with the same software and documents.

Likewise did you try a different VM? What you're describing sounds like apps that are not well abstracted. In enterprise, companies run dozens to hundreds of VM's on a single machine simultaneously, each with hundreds of processes, without the problems you describe.
I haven't tried to boot the Mac directly into Windows, but did uninstall Parallels and tried to use Bootcamp to create a partition and then installed Windows 7 to the partition, hoping to get the Windows application to run properly under the partition. When I did that and opened Windows, I appeared to lose all the drivers. The screen display was low resolution and fuzzy even on the highest screen resolution settings allowed by the Control Panel. The Apple mouse and keyboard did not work, the Wifi card didn't work. I had to use an alternative USB keyboard and mouse, but could not get a Wifi connection.

It seemed that I must have crashed the Mac Operating Sytem as I could not access it when re-booting. I eventually went to the Recovery Disk and had to reinstall the Mac OS. It was a time-consuming and frustrating nightmare!

So I have abandoned attempts to get my Mac to function like a PC.

John
pennant is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 09:52 PM   #118
pennant
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphychris View Post


File date and time is file system metadata. The date format setting only affects how the metadata is displayed, not how it's stored on disk.


Date formats shown precisely where in Windows were affected by precisely which System Preference setting? I've never seen such manifestation in three versions of Windows and a dozen versions of Linux in VMs.
In the Mac System Preferences you can selected the date formats under "Language & Text". The default is US standard which displays as Month/Day/Year. If you click UK it changes the format to Day/Month/Year. You can do a similar action under the Control Panel of Windows 7. So I set the date format for Windows 7 running under Parallels, but when I opened an Excel file the dates all displayed as Month/Day/year. I had the Excel date format set to: dd/mmm/yyyy which should have displayed 01 Jun 2012, but it displayed as 06 Jan 2012. Sorting on the date completely re-arranged the data.

Of course I initially thought that the problem was related to the Windows system settings, but eventually I checked the Mac System Preferences and changed them to the UK setting. I then re-opened the same Excel file and the dates appeared as they should. So it seems evident that the date/time formats on the Mac System Preferences were over-riding the date/time formats on Windows 7 running under Parallels.

The obvious conclusion is that the Mac System Preferences were impacting upon the operation of Windows 7 running under Parallels and it is logical to assume that if such a thing occurs with one element of the Mac System Preferences that there may be other elements which also impact upon Windows running under Parallels.

John
pennant is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 10:12 PM   #119
MJL
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
When installing Windows you will after starting Windows put in the OS X DVD and in that way load all the required drivers for Windows.

I did at one stage manage to get a Mac mini running under EFI but I could not measure any improved performance except that boot times were less. Same situation when I tried AHCI. If there was any performance improvement then I did not notice it - and even if there was any improvement it was marginal and the hassle of restoring or installing is not worth it.

The whole Windows on bootcamp installation is pretty painless, perhaps even more so than when installing it on a laptop (e.g. Lenovo Thinkpad 61p which came with Vista Ultimate) because of the bootcamp drivers all being there.

I am fond of the hardware design (noise/size/lack of cables, easy to take with me) and the server setup I have makes it easy to restore Windows if need arises: no other hardware is required, just boot into OS X and run Winclone.

In case Windows should go down (heaven forbid - last time I had a blue screen during "operational running was under XP SP1) then I can reboot and in Safari take the actions I need to do.

Yes, it is steeply priced and is not running the latest, greatest hardware but in our country there is no other small form factor PC available with warranty. I'm now starting to build up a 2011 base mini that I got on close out: more memory and replace the HDD with a Samsung 830 SSD. Thought about adding the flex cable and keeping the 500 Gb in there but I do not need the disk space and am concerned about heat (although not near as bad as in the mid 2011 Mac mini). Backup goes to an external firewire Raid 1 which also has a bootable OS X partition. Don't know if you are aware but OS X can be run from an external HDD / SSD which is extreemly handy.
MJL is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 26, 2012, 08:43 AM   #120
JoelBC
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post
I consider myself fairly competent using a PC and if I bought a brand new PC, I would be pretty much fully functional within one day of setting up the machine. Once I had Windows 7 installed under Parallels, I thought it would take me about a day or so to get everything functioning properly, but after 4-5 weeks of struggling with it and finding that I could not get my key Windows programmes to function correctly. I gave up!

I had a PC running beside the Mac so that I could compare settings, protocols etc., but just could not get programmes such as Page Plus X6 or Visual Site Designer, Shopping Cart Creator Pro to function properly using Windows 7 under Parallels. I was also unable to install SAGE Accounting.

I eventually uninstalled Parallels and did a hard-disk partition using Bootcamp, then installed Windows 7 to the partition. But during that proceess I lost all the drivers and spent ages trying to find the correct drivers for all the hardware in the Mac. I also managed to crash the Mac Operating System and had to finally go to the Recovery Disk to re-install the Mac OS.

So I have concluded that if I want to enjoy the Mac experience I should just use software designed for the Mac and not try to get it to operate like a PC.

In hindsight, I could have bought a new PC for half the price of a Mac! Saved myself a bundle of cash and hours, upon hours of frustration trying to get my software to run under Parallels.

John
John:

Appreciate the response...I hope that I do not run into the issues that you are running into as this would be extremely disappointing...

I may have a chance as I am planning on running run-of-the-mill windows applications such as MS Office, Quicken and few others...

I will let you know how things go...


Jole
JoelBC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 27, 2012, 05:24 AM   #121
pennant
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelBC View Post
John:

Appreciate the response...I hope that I do not run into the issues that you are running into as this would be extremely disappointing...

I may have a chance as I am planning on running run-of-the-mill windows applications such as MS Office, Quicken and few others...

I will let you know how things go...


Jole
You can get MS Office for Mac and so you can run all the routine Office programmes such as Word, Excel, Powerpoint from the Mac platform without going into Parallels. Office for Mac will open all the Office files that you created in your PC. Exceptions are Publisher and Access. You need to run those under Parallels.

Regards - John
pennant is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 27, 2012, 04:08 PM   #122
MJL
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
+1 on Office for Mac. Other programs may run under "codeweaver", cheaper than a Windows and VMware/Parallels license.
MJL is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 27, 2012, 10:49 PM   #123
JoelBC
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post
You can get MS Office for Mac and so you can run all the routine Office programmes such as Word, Excel, Powerpoint from the Mac platform without going into Parallels. Office for Mac will open all the Office files that you created in your PC. Exceptions are Publisher and Access. You need to run those under Parallels.

Regards - John
I thought that i) there was a difference / problem with Outlook in that Outlook for Mac will not open the MSG files created by Outlook for Windows which will be a huge problem for me and ii) there are differences / problems with Excel macros, Word formatting, etc. in moving files between Mac and Windows versions...any truth to this?

Thanks,


Joel
JoelBC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 28, 2012, 10:48 PM   #124
pennant
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelBC View Post
I thought that i) there was a difference / problem with Outlook in that Outlook for Mac will not open the MSG files created by Outlook for Windows which will be a huge problem for me and ii) there are differences / problems with Excel macros, Word formatting, etc. in moving files between Mac and Windows versions...any truth to this?

Thanks,


Joel
I did not encounter any difficulties with Excel or Word files opened in Office for Mac. I didn't use Outlook for Windows so can't advise you on that one.

You might be interested to note that I have abandoned the idea of using a Mac altogether. I have given it away to a family member and got myself a new PC. Within one day of getting a new PC, I have installed everything and the computer is fully functional. I could not achieve that level of functionality on the Mac after nearly 2-months of effort!!

Perhaps my expectation was too high as I wanted to attain dual functionality on the Mac whereby I could use all the Apple programmes, but also retain all my Windows applications. But running Windows 7 under Parallels just does not allow the same functionality as running Windows 7 on a PC.

regards - John
pennant is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:01 PM   #125
JoelBC
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post
I did not encounter any difficulties with Excel or Word files opened in Office for Mac. I didn't use Outlook for Windows so can't advise you on that one.
Good to hear...I will give Outlook a try in Parallels and see what happens...that said, I do have a backup plan as there are a number of OS X native *.msg viewers meaning I could try to use Office for Mac.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post
You might be interested to note that I have abandoned the idea of using a Mac altogether. I have given it away to a family member and got myself a new PC. Within one day of getting a new PC, I have installed everything and the computer is fully functional. I could not achieve that level of functionality on the Mac after nearly 2-months of effort!!
I am not surprised as there are definitely more hoops to go through for those who are i) new to Mac and ii) need to run Windows programs...I, like you, can setup and fully configure a Windows machine in a day and, trust me, my machine is highly customized...

I figure it will take me a week to get my MBA setup because of the learning curve...that however, is part of the fund as long as everything works as planned...


Quote:
Originally Posted by pennant View Post
Perhaps my expectation was too high as I wanted to attain dual functionality on the Mac whereby I could use all the Apple programmes, but also retain all my Windows applications. But running Windows 7 under Parallels just does not allow the same functionality as running Windows 7 on a PC.

regards - John
I hope that I get along better than you but will report once done...thanks for all the feedback...
JoelBC is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Systems and Services > Windows, Linux & Others on the Mac

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Please help me decide: cMBP 15" and rMBP 15" with specs. I'm very appreciated dragonjinse MacBook Pro 22 Jun 18, 2013 12:25 PM
When I "open file" finder opens scrolled to the side mirzank OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion 1 Apr 21, 2013 01:01 AM
Moving to the dark side-getting a 15" rmbp tomorrow! sochahca MacBook Pro 24 Apr 5, 2013 11:56 PM
13" rMBP or 15" MBP non retina: can't decide dabigpapi MacBook Pro 12 Apr 1, 2013 03:12 PM
Some issues, Really dark screen coming out of "sleep".. ViperDesign iPhone 11 Feb 23, 2013 01:23 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:35 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC