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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:09 PM   #276
gluckett
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The thing that frustrates me the most is I've submitted many reports from within the Maps app when I come across incorrect info, yet they still have not been addressed.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:26 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Google's market cap is close to 200 billion dollars. How do you figure that it "would barely make a dent" ?
If you thought Apple = God and didn't know what you were talking about, you'd think that too!
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:28 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by elberto1 View Post
Apple,

Just buy google already and make their maps (with voice navigation) yours.

You know that the purchase would barely make a dent in your corporate surplus anyways.

What's stopping you? Anti-trust?
and after that, kill Android.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:40 PM   #279
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I don't see what the big deal is. Google offers the "I feel lucky" button for searches. Apple just wants you to have that feeling lucky experience all the time.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:45 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Nunyabinez View Post
As far as firing someone, realize that many of these people make huge amounts of money, often millions of dollars. If you don't deserve to get fired when you screw up, then why do you deserve to get millions when you don't?
I agree. Who was charting the course and how are they paying for their "screw up" when they considered the risks and rewards when decision was made? I don't know what went on in the inside. However, on the face of it, it sounds almost like a Dilbert strip.

PHB: The CEO just scrapped our relationship with Google <for whatever reason>
Our product ships in 6 months, have our solution in place.
PM: Will do, I'll need 500 million and access to the R&D staff as well as a time machine.
PHB: You're so cute when you try to talk manager speak. Here's an iPad, looking forward to seeing your work.

Disclaimer: I have no problems with my iP5 or Maps. But unless the PM mis-represented where they stood to upper management or really bungled it up <quite possible, we'll never really know>, this looks like a "let's get rid of the cheap guy, we've got to protect our phony baloney jobs!" move.

Eh. I have no dog in this fight. Just hope some poor working stiff isn't taking the fall for something beyond his control.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 10:23 PM   #281
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I think that is really a mean thing to do - to fire someone just because a product didn't turn out perfectly.

You gonna fire everybody that makes a mistake? That would leave no one to make your shiny Apple products.

Of course there might have been things going on that weren't made public. But on the face of it, it just seems unfair.
You're a nice guy, but you'll never be a high-paid executive unless you can be a little 'mean' sometimes.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 10:28 PM   #282
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my apartment was marked as the railway station...they took it off since i reported it and now they have placed the mark on rail track instead of the actual station entrance. well, at least they r on the 'track' now.
Lol, they didn't fix mine
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 11:20 PM   #283
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Some suggest it's mean Williamson got fired.

1/ He managed to make a lemon, tested it and put it out to market without any idea of Apple standards. Apple usually avoid products that make them the butt of jokes.

2/ We don't know the conversations or going on's behind the scenes. He'd be toast if;
- he was lacking skills to fix this as a manager.
- he was resistant to taking ownership of the problem and didn't see it as serious.
- he managed the introduction and no idea what was happening.

I think it's unlikely Apple would fire a talent.

The Apple map app is really not good too many times. The maps are crap to look at, take too long to load and have too many errors.

"Must try harder"
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 11:43 PM   #284
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He managed to make a lemon, tested it and put it out to market without any idea of Apple standards.
And then there's the other side of the coin, that he was an escape goat. Even if he didn't make it to Apple standards, Apple still put it out to market.It wasn't like he did this in a vacuum, and other Apple execs tested it well before it was released. However Apple was between a rock and a hard place, they either put some kind of Map app out or none at all. It was clear that google was no longer a viable option. Apple chose to put something out, and since mapping apps are so hard to do this is what they got first time around. Google maps sucked first time around too. I don't believe for a minute that the mapping app was the only reason he was let go.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 11:49 PM   #285
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This is terrible news. Thats guy had a family and its crap like this that makes me feel like this is going to be my last Apple product. Firing a guy during christmas who know doubt worked his tail off to make a mapping solution for Apple. So what the project was a failure. I would love to hear this guys version of the story
Getting fired during the holidays sucks, but getting fired should be expected when you fail to perform the basic duties of your job.

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Originally Posted by maroontiger2k9 View Post
p.s. put it this way... my mom was in town by herself for a friends family funeral(ATL) (and i was leaving town for work) and isnt familiar with the city... i didnt have any confidence in Apple's Maps and or the ease of use of it and i paid $40 to get her TomTom USA... it doesnt get any easier than that app.
Apple Maps sucks in Metro Atlanta. It has about a 20% positive track record with me in terms of having accurate business info and having the pin in the correct place on the map.

Last edited by avanpelt; Nov 27, 2012 at 11:56 PM.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 11:54 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by avanpelt View Post
but getting fired should be expected when you fail to perform the basic duties of your job.

Which no one here knows what those duties were. I too would love to hear his side of the story.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:03 AM   #287
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Which no one here knows what those duties were. I too would love to hear his side of the story.
Precisely. We do not know what the expectation was and what he exactly did. As much as the map was derided, I personally thought it was a pretty solid effort. (Have we already forgotten the early days of Google maps and Mapquest of yore?)

This even goes to guys like Forstall and John Browett too. I don't think Browett was a good hire and the reduction in the staffing was a bad decision but what if that's what Tim Cook had expected out of Browett? What if Tim Cook wanted Browett to make the stores more profitable through any means but instead decided to make Browett a scapegoat? I'm not saying these are most likely scenarios but rather that we mostly hear the stories from one side only, not the other side who got kicked out.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:13 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Mac... nificent View Post

Which no one here knows what those duties were. I too would love to hear his side of the story.
To quote the article: "Richard Williamson, who oversaw the mapping team, was fired by Senior Vice President Eddy Cue."

Now, if the article is correct, he should've known Maps in its current form wasn't ready. If he knew and didn't tell anybody, that's not good. If he didn't know, that's not good. Obviously, whatever policies and procedures he put in place for the Maps team weren't effective. All of these things are, in my book, cause for termination if you're working for a company that only wants A-List people on their team (as I hope Apple does.)

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Originally Posted by fertilized-egg View Post
Precisely. We do not know what the expectation was and what he exactly did. As much as the map was derided, I personally thought it was a pretty solid effort. (Have we already forgotten the early days of Google maps and Mapquest of yore
Sure I remember, but in the span of just a few years, people have become much more dependent on having accurate maps built into their smartphones. That expectation has come in large part thanks to the iOS and Android platforms.

Sure, 2008 was only four years ago but the smartphone landscape and people's expectations of their phones have changed dramatically in the past four years. In 2012, a "pretty solid effort" in the smartphone mapping realm doesn't really cut it.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:23 AM   #289
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By dropping Google mapping data, Apple has made mapping on the iPhone worse than before.

I like the great detail that Google Maps offers--especially out of the USA. This is especially true in both South Korea and Japan, where Google Maps relies on data from excellent local digital mapping services.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:38 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by avanpelt View Post
Now, if the article is correct
Key word IF...


Quote:
In 2012, a "pretty solid effort" in the smartphone mapping realm doesn't really cut it.
It does when it's the very first version of the app. Since googles first version they've had time to hire 7000 people just to work on their maps. With that in mind I'd say that he did quite a good job, considering the handful of help is team was made up of. And again, not everyone had problems with the app.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:53 AM   #291
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Poor guy. That must have been a kamikaze project. I am sure his bosses had a lot of understanding for the project's complexity and gave his team enough time to develop something decent.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:49 AM   #292
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Feel sorry for the guy. Maps was an impossible project that anyone who's ever had a 'mad boss' that expects miracle results will understand. They just didn't have the skills and resources to pull it off.

At least it looks like Cue understands the mountain Apple need to climb and is taking those first steps.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:50 AM   #293
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mmmm, he gets the blame yet no doubt the execs were pressurising him to say its ready.

I have had zero issues with maps. I do miss street view though. I can see me defecting to Android next year, been with iOS since v1 and its no longer the leading OS imo. (Still love my iPhone/iPad - the OS just needs modernising)
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:20 AM   #294
JustMartin
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Did they have to name the poor guy?

Alright, fire him, but let him go quietly so he can get a respectable job somewhere. (Not doing maps, obviously.)
I don't think Apple have named him have they? It's the rumour sources that have done that. So, in a way, we've named him.

And as for firing him, we don't know what else went on behind the scenes. I agree that it sounds harsh to me. He made a mistake, a very high profile mistake and he might not have been the right person to lead the rescue mission. But, Apple could have found a niche for him somewhere. On the other hand, perhaps some of his actions that lead to this maps issues were more than mistakes. We'll never know.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:27 AM   #295
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I've been using the Maps app since like June and haven't had any problems. What's it doing for the rest of you? Like guiding you into a lake? Hahaha you guys are like Dwight Shrute.
No - according to Apple Maps I am LIVING in a lake in a city with a wrong name - in fact - the name changes when you zoom out to yet another wrong name.

At the beginning (can't check as I switched phones) they even misspelled a lot of places, including major landmarks in London .. Westminster was Westminister and so on ...

Whilst that isn't an issue for locals - if you try to find your way around London you are out of luck as you'd have to search for the misspelled name to find the place.

Edit : According to my girlfriends iPhone I am still living in a little lake - which is 5 miles up the road ..

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Originally Posted by ds2000 View Post
I can see me defecting to Android next year, been with iOS since v1 and its no longer the leading OS imo. (Still love my iPhone/iPad - the OS just needs modernising)
You won't regret it - I bought an iPhone outright since its first release .. skipped the 3G though (had iPhone, 3GS and so on) but skipped 5 and got an Android - best move ever (will never dodge my iPad and Macbook tho).
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:55 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
This is so wrong, it's difficult to know where to start. How about first principles of cartography? Clutter is not information, it is clutter. By definition.
It's actually quite right and a peeve I have against Apple's maps. The "clutter free", the "cleanliness" makes them damn hard to read at a glance. You really have to concentrate to recognize roads, zoom in to disproportionate levels to get details you should have gotten at a glance for a wider area, which then causes you to scroll around to much.

Google Maps' "clutter" (it's not actually clutter, it's information as you put it) is much easier to read at a glance, shows up at better zoom levels.

Having tons of flat color areas on maps might look good, but maps are sources of information, not pretty things to look at. Apple really needs to up the ante here.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:00 AM   #297
jer04
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Lol, they didn't fix mine
not really surprised, i reported it again about the second location problem and they just simply ignored it. on the other side, the new maps app released by nokia called 'here' is even worse.

anyway, i threw the apple maps icon into a random folder after i used it a couple of times. if i could delete it, i would hv. it probably works better in the US, but not where i live.

looking forward to the new google maps on app store. hopefully it's gonna be approved by apple. /fingers crossed
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:44 AM   #298
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One would hope so, it tells me my nearest pub is 47 miles away. Anyone living in the UK knows this is impossible.
I've heard this joke before

The maps are appalling and the problem is getting bigger as more people update to the latest OS.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:59 AM   #299
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I've been using the Maps app since like June and haven't had any problems. What's it doing for the rest of you? Like guiding you into a lake? Hahaha you guys are like Dwight Shrute.
I don't drive but I'm told the navigation is very good, but if I look at the area where I live at sufficient zoom for bars and restaurants* etc to start showing up there isn't a single one in the right place**. Literally, not a single one is accurate to within about 50 meters. One cafe (that I've never heard of, I don't know where it is if it actually exists but it's not close) shows up in the very middle of the river. Even big names are wrong - Starbucks is off by about half a mile!

*I just spelt restaurant correctly first time!!!! <pleased with self>
**To be fair, they moved one restaurant very recently to the correct place, but unfortunately the place shut down around the same time (to be replaced by a pop-up tapas bar, which I really must try out...)
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:12 AM   #300
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How this happened originally is crazy. Firing people now is too late - the mess already happened.
It may be too late, but Apple still needs to expect (desirable) results from its project managers. When they fail, then they need to be fired.

Are you suggesting that a Fortune 500 company should keep employing incompetent project managers?

Apple is simply reinforcing what it needs to do: "We will hire ANOTHER project manager to replace him. That man (or woman) can come from anywhere, maybe even an ex-Google employee. But he needs to perform, and his projects need to succeed. Otherwise, his employment will be short."
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