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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:26 PM   #26
resonator
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Intel Integrated graphics are Junk

Those intel integrated graphics are not very good. It really is ashamed that Apple did not put a better discrete graphics card in the mini. The graphics on the latest 13" MacBook Air are the same and really do not perform well for any type of heavy duty 3D applications. My 6 year old 17" MBP with discrete 256 MB graphics card performs better. The pro seems to really be going out of all the Apple products for lighter, thinner consumer models. It is ashamed that they do not offer the professional users many options these days. I was on the verge of buying a mini as a secondary machine until I read the specs about the video card. This is a step backwards.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Fuchal View Post
My 2011 (HD 3000) flickers/flashes as well on HDMI, but I bet there's no fix ever coming for that.
Same here. Did they ever acknowledge it?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:34 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Intel should just stick to CPUs and leave the GPUs to nVidia and AMD/ATI. That's the best solution here.
So the Macbook Air, Macbook Pro 13 inch and Mac Mini wouldn't have any GPU lol? Apple can already put in an Nvidia or AMD GPU if they wish, they can turn off Intel's GPU or have it be switchable, they just don't because they want their cost to be low, not provide a powerful laptop.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:34 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Intel should just stick to CPUs and leave the GPUs to nVidia and AMD/ATI. That's the best solution here.
Intel is the cause of the entire situation currently, and not just because they can't write decent GPU drivers. They also took legal action against NVidia producing their own chipsets for the Core series processors back at the tail end of 2009, bringing an end to the last decent integrated chipset/GPU for Macs--the 9400M. Now we're stuck with Intel's integrated GPU.

I really don't mind that they are producing the hardware, but the drivers are unacceptably buggy.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:35 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Intel should just stick to CPUs and leave the GPUs to nVidia and AMD/ATI. That's the best solution here.
All Apples fault... no one force them to use only thos ****** intel gpus....mini 2012 only with intel piece of ****, thank you tim
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:39 PM   #31
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Does anyone know what monitor that is in the picture?
NEC MultiSync EA Series:
http://www.necdisplay.com/category/desktop-monitors
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:44 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by resonator View Post
Those intel integrated graphics are not very good. It really is ashamed that Apple did not put a better discrete graphics card in the mini. The graphics on the latest 13" MacBook Air are the same and really do not perform well for any type of heavy duty 3D applications. My 6 year old 17" MBP with discrete 256 MB graphics card performs better. The pro seems to really be going out of all the Apple products for lighter, thinner consumer models. It is ashamed that they do not offer the professional users many options these days. I was on the verge of buying a mini as a secondary machine until I read the specs about the video card. This is a step backwards.
These machines are not for heavy 3D applications. Intel graphics do not suck. My MacMini does everything I need it to do, as I'm not a photo editor, video producer, or a design engineer.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by StealthGhost View Post
So the Macbook Air, Macbook Pro 13 inch and Mac Mini wouldn't have any GPU lol? Apple can already put in an Nvidia or AMD GPU if they wish, they can turn off Intel's GPU or have it be switchable, they just don't because they want their cost to be low, not provide a powerful laptop.
that is not about cost, it is all about apples marketing.. imagine mac mini with decent GPU.. who the heck would by imac (or at least base imac)? but truth is, in the end, its all about apples profit
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:46 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by jmhart View Post
Intel is the cause of the entire situation currently, and not just because they can't write decent GPU drivers. They also took legal action against NVidia producing their own chipsets for the Core series processors back at the tail end of 2009, bringing an end to the last decent integrated chipset/GPU for Macs--the 9400M. Now we're stuck with Intel's integrated GPU.

I really don't mind that they are producing the hardware, but the drivers are unacceptably buggy.
Well, the 8600M series from Nvidia was a huge bust. Bumpgate was the word. Nearly all of them were recalled from every OEM including Apple (HP, Dell, etc, etc). The 9400M wasn't much better, it flickered and flickered (was particularly bad on the 9400M+9600M MBP). This was a known problem that wasn't fixed for a LONG time (I think on the order of years after the 9400M's were introduced). Nearly all the 8800s' were cooked in the iMacs of yore, so there is a lengthy history for that as well. So I don't know how Nvidia is any better as far as GPU issues are concerned. Never mind that Nvidia doesn't seem to know how to design a good chipset other than inserting a GPU into it. Their chipsets had troubles with RAM compatibility and SSD compatibility. None of that was ever fixed to my knowledge. So while Intel isn't great on GPUs, their chipsets and CPUs work well. I am absolutely not convinced of Nvidia other than their flagship GPUs.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:54 PM   #35
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Because we need this thread in addition to the main 20 page one in addition to all the other short ones each user created.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:56 PM   #36
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It's about time that MacRumors addressed this on the front page. All the discussion that has been occurring on it's own forums as well as the Apple forums has been ignored up until this point. This is a serious problem.

Meanwhile, the slightest little annoyance can occur with the iPhone or iPad, and we end up with 100 front page posts, blaring about it being the end of the world.

Last edited by Negritude; Nov 28, 2012 at 04:05 PM.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:58 PM   #37
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I've seen this issue once, maybe twice, on my 24" Dell connected via HDMI->DVI. However, I see a similar issue nearly every time I boot my 2012 Mac mini on a large display connected via the Apple Mini DisplayPort to Dual-link DVI adaptor. Not sure if the adaptor is at fault, but if the flickering I saw on the HDMI monitor is caused by this issue, then maybe the flickering on the Dual-link DVI is a separate issue caused by adaptor.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:02 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Maxx Power View Post
Well, the 8600M series from Nvidia was a huge bust. Bumpgate was the word. Nearly all of them were recalled from every OEM including Apple (HP, Dell, etc, etc). The 9400M wasn't much better, it flickered and flickered (was particularly bad on the 9400M+9600M MBP). This was a known problem that wasn't fixed for a LONG time (I think on the order of years after the 9400M's were introduced). Nearly all the 8800s' were cooked in the iMacs of yore, so there is a lengthy history for that as well. So I don't know how Nvidia is any better as far as GPU issues are concerned. Never mind that Nvidia doesn't seem to know how to design a good chipset other than inserting a GPU into it. Their chipsets had troubles with RAM compatibility and SSD compatibility. None of that was ever fixed to my knowledge. So while Intel isn't great on GPUs, their chipsets and CPUs work well. I am absolutely not convinced of Nvidia other than their flagship GPUs.
That could be true with the 9400M+9600M, but I was speaking from experience with my late 2009 13" Macbook which is based on the 9400M with which to this day I've never experienced any flickering issues.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:05 PM   #39
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I have a 2011 mini hooked up to a 46" screen via HDMI.
Baseline model with an aftermarket upgrade to 4GB of RAM.
Never had a problem.
It's been the perfect HTPC.

I realize this article is about the 2012 model, but someone mentioned the 2011 version.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:09 PM   #40
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Integrated graphics are ridiculous for a desktop. I'd rather sacrifice a bit of space in order to replace the card, repair it, upgrade it or simply have an independent card with its own RAM and better performance.

Mobile devices I can understand, but this obsession with "thin" iMac's and small Mac Mini's at the sacrifice of function is getting out of hand. How is Intel proposing to fix this issue? What if this had been a bad logic board w/ integrated graphics?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:12 PM   #41
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I haven't had the flickering issue on my replacement Mac Mini and I've been on it quite a bit. Maybe it's only flickering when I'm out of the room but ever since I swapped out my first Mac Mini with a 2nd one I haven't noticed any flickering issues at all while I saw it happen a good 5-6 times in the week I had my first one.

I wonder what the heck it could possibly be different on my 2nd Mini VS my 1st?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:13 PM   #42
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If anyone remembers the first Mac mini (PPC), which included discrete graphics, it had all sorts of flicker issues with use of DVI on a lot of monitors.

Well, turns out that innovative design came at a price...

1. Buy a subset of features from the chipset provided by ATI for a discount price.
2. Don't buy firmware update from ATI that addresses some other performance issues.
3. Underclock the GPU to help control heat dissipation... but cause the flicker issue.

Hopefully moving to integrated graphics first eliminates any need to underclock any components, and hopefully driver/firmware fixes are relatively easy to implement.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:13 PM   #43
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What's with Apple computers and this constant flickering issue with all of them? I thought video output technology was mastered like 50 years ago…
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:16 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by FakeWozniak View Post
This is good news actually that Intel is dedicated to helping the 5-10% market share of the Mac users. They admitted a problem and intend to fix it instead of just ignoring us.
True. If the problem was Apple's they'd probably say you were looking at it wrong.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
Integrated graphics are ridiculous for a desktop. I'd rather sacrifice a bit of space in order to replace the card, repair it, upgrade it or simply have an independent card with its own RAM and better performance.

Mobile devices I can understand, but this obsession with "thin" iMac's and small Mac Mini's at the sacrifice of function is getting out of hand. How is Intel proposing to fix this issue? What if this had been a bad logic board w/ integrated graphics?
If it performs to a sufficient standard, what's the problem?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:25 PM   #46
philipma1957
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Originally Posted by bpcookson View Post
I have a 2011 mini hooked up to a 46" screen via HDMI.
Baseline model with an aftermarket upgrade to 4GB of RAM.
Never had a problem.
It's been the perfect HTPC.

I realize this article is about the 2012 model, but someone mentioned the 2011 version.
my 2011 is perfect hooked up to a sony 46 inch tv via hdmi ,but every 2012 I have had in house (4) flickers with hdmi.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:26 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by jmhart View Post
That could be true with the 9400M+9600M, but I was speaking from experience with my late 2009 13" Macbook which is based on the 9400M with which to this day I've never experienced any flickering issues.
That's what I hear anyway. I went through 3 logic boards to get one that flickered infrequently. Based on my friend's MBP and the almighty internet, I think your model is the one picky on RAM, but even pickier on SSDs. I think the recommendation is: don't use a SandForce based SSD on 9400m based MBPs.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:51 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Fuchal View Post
My 2011 (HD 3000) flickers/flashes as well on HDMI, but I bet there's no fix ever coming for that.
Same here! But I don't have the problem when using the Thunderbolt out!
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 05:00 PM   #49
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I'd prefer the flickering to be addressed first.
I don't have such a problem, better fix 10.8.2 this affecting too many things
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 05:11 PM   #50
profets
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Originally Posted by bpcookson View Post
I have a 2011 mini hooked up to a 46" screen via HDMI.
Baseline model with an aftermarket upgrade to 4GB of RAM.
Never had a problem.
It's been the perfect HTPC.

I realize this article is about the 2012 model, but someone mentioned the 2011 version.
Yeah, the 2011 model was mentioned as a lot of people reported a similar issue. A quick google search will show you. Not sure if it's the exact same problem, but it happened only over hdmi. Happened on mine which had AMD gpu.
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