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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:48 AM   #26
thewitt
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Lack of personal responsibility and poor judgement killed this woman. It's tragic, but from her physical condition it doesn't sound like this was the first time she made poor choices in her life.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:05 AM   #27
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Can't get off the fence on this one. Personal responsibility or major screw up by a business that should be able to handle this???
To me, this is an example of "too many lawyers". I don't think anyone really is to blame. This lawsuit is like trying to sue God for getting old and dying. The story is a sad one, but really, in the end, her time had come.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:26 AM   #28
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All I can say is that KLM has treated me poorly in the past (when I was trying to arrange seeing my terminally ill father) and I will never fly with them again.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:01 AM   #29
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I couldn't tell from the article if she had bought two seats for the way back, but since she did for going over there I'd assume she would be willing to pay for two seats to go back, in which case this could be the airline's fault.

However it also doesn't make it clear what state her health was in before going, if it was poor then she shouldn't have been traveling to begin with. And if it got worse while she was over there I don't see why she didn't just get medical help there.
If she bought 2 seats over, I'd assume she would have arranged for 2 seats back. I don't know if her size was the primary issue or was it her illness? If she was delayed due to a broken seat and just happened to die while waiting to come home, the airline can't be held responsible for her death. If you are sick, go to the hospital. And to reinforce this idea, the last thing the airline wants to do is board a passenger for a 8+ hr transoceanic flight if they think you are sick, beyond a sniffle. (I realize she was starting in Prague.) The airline would have no responsibility to board you. Illness, frequently disqualifies passengers from being boarded.

It sounds like the delay in getting home is associated by the obese nature of the person and a broken seat. It might have been a full plane and a seat was broken and then there were more full flights. The last thing any airline or passenger wants is a huge person sitting next to them in coach, because they end up sitting on you. Not said to be cruel. It is just a fact. When dealing with these situations, a judgement call is made by airline employees including the Captain. Bottom line, the airline will try to accommodate you, but may not carry you and is not responsible for your deteriorating health.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:07 AM   #30
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Out of curiosity, what are the damages? This woman chose to leave her family presumably knowing she was ill. They had said their goodbyes, knowing there was a possibility she might die there. She tried to return, but was denied for reasons that got me kicked off a flight (my wife had a migraine ). Before she was able to get another flight, she passed away.

The family is suing because she didn't make it home for her last day, maybe couple of days. What are their damages? I don't see "emotional distress" being a valid claim, but even if it were, it has to be related not to the death, but to the death occurring before she got home. Seems unlikely.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:11 AM   #31
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Essentially this.

However, in medical emergencies accommodations should be made above and beyond anything secured by the passenger.

But I didn't read the OP's linked article. So I'm not aware of how much the airlines knew of her medical condition.
Was it a medical emergency though? Also it states that she did purchase one ticket back, where on the flight out she had purchased two?

If this was a medical emergency then there would have been more than just the family making arraignments for the flight no?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:47 AM   #32
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Most wheel chairs especially "transport chairs" have a weight limit of 400lbs.
Those who are not ambulatory usually bring their own.

Airlines routinely bar those who are sick as well as make accommodations for those who are disabled.

The tricky part is when a passenger is sick and disabled as the crew is not staffed or equipped to provide the level of care required.

People get annoyed that the flight attendants don't get you a bag of peanuts quickly.

Imaging them trying to get that poor woman in and out of the shoe box lavatories on an international flight.

I wonder if her doctors on either leg of the trip certified her as fit to fly.

If in the same position seeking medical attention in place or medical air transport would be better then trusting your health care to an Airline.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:55 AM   #33
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Was it a medical emergency though? Also it states that she did purchase one ticket back, where on the flight out she had purchased two?

If this was a medical emergency then there would have been more than just the family making arraignments for the flight no?
It is academic. Medical emergencies disqualify people to fly.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 11:02 AM   #34
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While I agree that the airlines dropped the ball as far as accommodating her, their failures had nothing to do with her death, IMO.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:41 PM   #35
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While I agree that the airlines dropped the ball as far as accommodating her, their failures had nothing to do with her death, IMO.
Exactly, I don't see how the airlines saying no you can't fly caused her to die.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:27 PM   #36
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Exactly, I don't see how the airlines saying no you can't fly caused her to die.
That's not what they are suing for. They are suing for damages because the airlines failure to get her home somehow damaged them. Emotional distress or something like that.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:42 PM   #37
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While I agree that the airlines dropped the ball as far as accommodating her, their failures had nothing to do with her death, IMO.
I agree. The family has a chance to win the sympathetic vote but I don't think the death is the airline's fault.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:44 PM   #38
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Nope, I was wrong. They are suing saying the airline had a "duty" to get her home to her doctors. She suffered from kidney disease, and I bet you a dollar she didn't have dialysis for at least a chunk of the trip. Her belly was distended, and that's a pretty good sign of someone who's kidneys have failed and needs treatment.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:46 PM   #39
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This is from another article...

Basically, xenophobia killed this woman.

LINK

If you're an obese, diabetic double amputee and the only doctors you trust with your life are in the US, it's probably not the best idea to travel abroad...

BOTTOM LINE: HER FAULT.
I'm pretty sure the woman didn't expect the airline who happily and readily sent her to Europe, to refuse to bring her home.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:49 PM   #40
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I'm pretty sure the woman didn't expect the airline who happily and readily sent her to Europe, to refuse to bring her home.
The airline(s) has every right to refuse her travel if they are unable to ensure that she, and the other passengers, can travel safely.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:50 PM   #41
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Lack of personal responsibility and poor judgement killed this woman. It's tragic, but from her physical condition it doesn't sound like this was the first time she made poor choices in her life.
I swear, man. It's like you exist just to post the things ultraliberals expect ultraconservatives to say.

And by poor choices, you mean pot pies.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:51 PM   #42
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You fail at life. I don't know where you get off posting something like that.

I'm pretty sure the woman didn't expect the airline who happily and readily sent her to Europe, to refuse to bring her home.
Did you read the article or the thread at all? A broken seat kept her off one flight and her morbid obesity kept her from being able to get to or on two additional flights. Should other people have been forced out of their seats so this woman could fly instead? Are there not hospitals in Europe?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:55 PM   #43
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The airline(s) has every right to refuse her travel if they are unable to ensure that she, and the other passengers, can travel safely.
Then don't allow her to fly to Europe in the first instance. They had a moral obligation to get her home, despite it not being a contractual one.

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Did you read the article or the thread at all? A broken seat kept her off one flight and her morbid obesity kept her from being able to get to or on two additional flights. Should other people have been forced out of their seats so this woman could fly instead? Are there not hospitals in Europe?
Yes, I did. Airlines have many planes in rotation flying the same route. As someone stated earlier - plan for the worst, hope for the best. The airline should have anticipated this woman's return date and made plans accordingly. By permitting her to fly one way, and not making the appropriate adjustments to get her home, they failed her.

As for the latter part of your question, there are of course hospitals in Europe, but without knowing the detailed medical history of this patient, it is difficult to comment on that aspect of her care and if it would have been appropriate to attend these.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:56 PM   #44
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Lack of personal responsibility and poor judgement killed this woman. It's tragic, but from her physical condition it doesn't sound like this was the first time she made poor choices in her life.
Thats harsh to say.

Without meaning offence to anyone here but looking at some users avatar pictures they dont appear to be very healthy or in reasonable shape.

Its very east to judge until we face the mirror
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:06 PM   #45
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Then don't allow her to fly to Europe in the first instance. They had a moral obligation to get her home, despite it not being a contractual one.
I'm unaware of any report that stated KLM or Delta refused to fly her period, ever again. They were just unable to transport her on that day due to safety concerns.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:29 PM   #46
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Yes, I did. Airlines have many planes in rotation flying the same route. As someone stated earlier - plan for the worst, hope for the best. The airline should have anticipated this woman's return date and made plans accordingly. By permitting her to fly one way, and not making the appropriate adjustments to get her home, they failed her.
Many planes in rotation flying the same transoceanic route that have been under sold? Odds are slim on that one. We aren't talking about a short commuter route between cities that might have a dozen 3/4 full flights a day. It's very common for a missed/delayed international flight to turn into a days long ordeal. Flight #1 she couldn't take because of a broken seat (which could happen to anyone). Flight #2 she couldn't take because she's too large to get down the jetway to the plane. Flight #3 she couldn't take because she's too large to be safely secured in her seat(s). What is the airline supposed to do, kick other passengers off the plane just so this woman can fly? Have her fly w/o the ability to fasten her seat belt?

The woman not seeking medical treatment in Europe, or not buying travel medical insurance that would've covered a medical evacuation if needed, failed herself. She should know the risks and limitations her size and medical conditions present when traveling and plan accordingly. Like I said in a previous post, hope for the best and plan for the worst.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:52 PM   #47
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Many planes in rotation flying the same transoceanic route that have been under sold? Odds are slim on that one. We aren't talking about a short commuter route between cities that might have a dozen 3/4 full flights a day. It's very common for a missed/delayed international flight to turn into a days long ordeal. Flight #1 she couldn't take because of a broken seat (which could happen to anyone). Flight #2 she couldn't take because she's too large to get down the jetway to the plane. Flight #3 she couldn't take because she's too large to be safely secured in her seat(s). What is the airline supposed to do, kick other passengers off the plane just so this woman can fly? Have her fly w/o the ability to fasten her seat belt?
Flight 2 she should have been able to get as the airline should have the necessary equipment to transport her at all airports they fly to. Otherwise, they shouldn't permit her to travel, period. I'll repeat, by letting her fly one half of the journey, they have a moral obligation to ensure they can return her - in all reasonable eventualities. The airline failed her.

Flight 3 she should have been able to take as the airline should have accommodated her, even at the expense of another passenger. They should have at least made the effort by asking others to catch a later flight with compensation.

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The woman not seeking medical treatment in Europe, or not buying travel medical insurance that would've covered a medical evacuation if needed, failed herself. She should know the risks and limitations her size and medical conditions present when traveling and plan accordingly. Like I said in a previous post, hope for the best and plan for the worst.
As I said, without knowing the details of her illness and care plan, it's impossible to comment on this aspect. I simply refuse to believe that the woman accepted death over treatment from local medics. There must be more to this.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:13 PM   #48
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Flight 2 she should have been able to get as the airline should have the necessary equipment to transport her at all airports they fly to. Otherwise, they shouldn't permit her to travel, period. I'll repeat, by letting her fly one half of the journey, they have a moral obligation to ensure they can return her - in all reasonable eventualities. The airline failed her.
She has very specific travel needs and should've made contingency plans incase something goes south. Hypothetically, If I need a vegan meal it's my responsibility to make sure my carrier knows this and it's my responsibility to have a backup plan incase my original flight plans fall through. I shouldn't expect every flight by every carrier to have X amount of vegan meals available 'just in case.'

Delta, not her original carrier, didn't have a wheel chair strong enough to get her to the plane. Lufthansa, again not her orignal carrier, could get her on the plane but didn't have a seat belt big enough for her. Why should Delta and Lufthansa get dinged for not being able to accommodate a morbidly obese woman that wasn't their customer in the first place? KLM eventually found her a suitable flight but at that point she had died. She's a passenger trying to make a flight just like everyone else. If she was in deteriorating health she should've gone to the hospital not the airport.

Quote:
Flight 3 she should have been able to take as the airline should have accommodated her, even at the expense of another passenger. They should have at least made the effort by asking others to catch a later flight with compensation.
Um, why does this woman get the right to kick other passengers off the plane and who says the airline didn't ask for volunteers but no one accepted?


Quote:
As I said, without knowing the details of her illness and care plan, it's impossible to comment on this aspect. I simply refuse to believe that the woman accepted death over treatment from local medics. There must be more to this.
Maybe she underestimated the severity of her condition and thought she could hold out until she got home? Who knows. But for whatever reason she apparently chose to chase flights back to the U.S. as opposed to seeking medical treatment overseas.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:49 PM   #49
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That's not what they are suing for. They are suing for damages because the airlines failure to get her home somehow damaged them. Emotional distress or something like that.
Oohhhh I read the comment that I quoted. Gotcha.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:30 PM   #50
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Then don't allow her to fly to Europe in the first instance. They had a moral obligation to get her home, despite it not being a contractual one.
Not if she was ill. In fact the airline could be liable if they flew her knowing she was sick.
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