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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:27 PM   #51
jacek83
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Originally Posted by akatsuki View Post
When you talk about the labor you put into an app, that is all very nice, but the consumer doesn't care... All that matters is what people are willing to pay. So maybe when you think about developing an app - decide on the price it will sell at and then focus on putting the effort into it that gets you there and no more.
Spot on, this seems like completely amateurish way of creating a pricing strategy. What's more - simplicity and minimalism of Clear works great on an iPhone, but doesn't translate so good to a Mac (yes, I've bought both versions). And, on top of that, iCloud sync - which should be a killer feature here - trully sucks.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by moxxey View Post
There's a simple explanation.

People only have a finite amount of money and they'd rather save it for the next hardware release

I remember an Italian friend proudly showing me all his kit a few years ago. He's spent thousands of Euros on Apple kit. His home was full of it. I asked him what software he owned and he equally proudly told me he'd never bought any software. He pirated everything, including the applications he used for business. He was incredibly surprised I'd even asked the question. Hardware was everything, software was nothing.
Your statement that people only have a finite amount of money is, in your example, ridiculous - someone who spends thousands on hardware can afford software. This guy is just being cheap - if he could get a stolen mac product he probably "proudly" would
And he probably doesn't pay taxes either, and the Country second most in deep ****** is???
The mindset of the people is what makes a country.

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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:46 PM   #53
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WTH? $208 jeans? I'm sorry, but no flip'n jeans are "that good". I think I'll rather get x10 jeans at Old Navy for that price. I guarantee my 10 pairs will outlast your 1. I may not be "hipster" but who the frick cares. They're JEANS. Next thing you know there's going to be $150 pair of boxers that are individually hand crafted, fair trade, organic material, natural organic dies, blah blah blah. No one but my lady is going to be see'n them and I know she doesn't care how "stylish" my boxers are.

Point being, this sheds light on the value he thinks his app is worth. Overpriced.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:49 PM   #54
E.Lizardo
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Originally Posted by aloshka View Post
That's ridiculous. People pay almost 2k for an average apple computer. 500 for an ipad, 200 for an iPhone. But 14 bucks... Oooo that's way to expensive

If it's too expensive, don't buy. People thought apple was too expensive, and yet everyone is throwing as much money as they can at them.

If you want quality, then pay for it. Otherwise there are hundreds of todo apps on the AppStore. But since they all suck--thus the complaining, why would a great app be priced the same as an app that took 5 minutes to develop?

All those awful apps that were created by unskilled developers created unrealistic expectations about pricing.

And if your argument is "there are great apps that cost 1-2$" then go use them just like you tell people who can't afford Apple computers to go buy a Dell instead.
Um...That's pretty much what I and others are doing,and I'm sure Realmac's sales show it.You can berate and belittle me all you want,but Clear is not worth $15 to me despite the developer's obviously high opinion of his work.

A lot of work went into Angry Birds.What does it sell for again?How much money have they made?

There is a pricing sweet spot that maximizes sales AND profit.I expect $15 ain't it for Clear.Maybe I'm wrong.Time will tell.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:50 PM   #55
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Developer can charge whatever he wants. Of course premium things will sell if people see the value in them. Dunno why he's telling us that like we don't know it.

Fact is, if he correctly evaluated the value of his app and the market demand for it, then he should already be content with the income he is receiving as a result. The fact that he's putting out all these justifications suggests, however, that he probably guaged one of the two a little too optimistically.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:52 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by iRCL View Post
And now, people actually buy them, instead of 5:1 people pirating it, so it all works out for everybody if he prices it around $3 which is fairly standard
I see a lot of people commenting that don't have a clue what their talking about. I'll forgive people that don't understand what it means to develop software and make silly comments like "It's essentially a copy paste of the iPhone app". Though, it might be advisable to hold your tongue when it comes to sharp comments if you recognize you don't know anything about SE.

But when people say that "$3...is fairly standard" for a Macintosh Desktop Application, I have to wonder if they know wtf we're discussing, or if they're that out to lunch about the price of software?

Standard desktop software costs $50. Shareware software or utility apps put out by small or independent companies will often run around $20 give or take $10.

I'm fine with people not thinking the software is worth $10, that is for every individual to decide, and to discuss. But please hold your tongue if you think you're doing nothing but firehosing your ignorance
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:52 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ucmj22 View Post
What a bunch of Whiners! And Im not talking about Realmac! If its useful to you, and you think $15 is reasonable, buy it. If its not useful to you, who cares. If its useful to you but you think $15 is too much then find a corner and cry all over your wallet with a sphincter tighter than a size small shirt on Michael Moore.

If I want to bottle my own farts in a mason jar and sell them for $1500 bucks a pop, what the hell do you care? If you don't want my Jar-O-Farts, don't buy it, but then don't sit around and whine about how you totally would have bought my fart for $100 but $1500 is just crazy for a fart that you don't even really care for the smell of because it lacks that woody undertone. I know how much time and effort went in to making that fart "just so" and it is worth every bit of $1500.... where was I going with this...... Oh yeah, quit whining!
Cut both ways sparky!Don't like our comments?Quit whining and don't read 'em!
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:54 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by japasneezemonk View Post
#1- I have to agree that Peter Drucker is a genius.

#2- I feel no sympathy for this Developer or his pricing strategy. If he feels he needs to defend his decision by comparing it to buying beer he has bigger problems. If there truly is value in his product then smart consumers will look past this whole charade and buy.

#3- Clear is part of a commoditized market and charging premium prices is going to be very difficult. Jeans are also a commodity. However, the HUIT jeans he refers to are made of selvedge denim, from Japanese Denim Mills. Japanese Denim is famously expensive($200-$400USD). Many if not all of these mills still use old-school methods and machinery to make denim as it was made a century ago. The funny thing about Japanese denim is that it's hard to find and while expensive, sells fast.
#1 I have to say that Peter Drucker is stating the obvious, so how does this quote prove him a genius?

#2 Comparison pricing is an old technique - comparing his product to a couple of pints is fine, he is just too long-winded about it

#3 HUIT jeans - who cares? He used a bad example there for sure. (Or maybe he now gets free jeans from them LOL!)
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:03 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by macpeach55 View Post
#2 Comparison pricing is an old technique - comparing his product to a couple of pints is fine, he is just too long-winded about it
It is not a technique, it is a bedrock concept in economics, known as "economic value."

http://www.ecosystemvaluation.org/1-01.htm

Maybe he wasn't long-winded enough...
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:04 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by E.Lizardo View Post
Um...That's pretty much what I and others are doing,and I'm sure Realmac's sales show it.You can berate and belittle me all you want,but Clear is not worth $15 to me despite the developer's obviously high opinion of his work.

A lot of work went into Angry Birds.What does it sell for again?How much money have they made?

There is a pricing sweet spot that maximizes sales AND profit.I expect $15 ain't it for Clear.Maybe I'm wrong.Time will tell.
I wasn't trying to belittle you. I was just trying to say there is a market for expensive apps just like expensive hardware both of which are hard to justify.

What I am annoyed by, is the argument itself. That's like going to a BMW dealer and yelling at them for pricing their cars too high compared to a civic. Afterall, it has wheels and and an engine. But there is a different market for that. It's designed to be clean and easy to use. If you dont agree, thats fine. A lot of people think BMW's are pieces of crap and their Ford truck has better capabilities. Again, different markets.

Angry Birds was strategically priced to sell hordes of the game to children, whom otherwise would not get approval from their parents or adults who don't want to spend on a simple game.

Different strategy that would not apply to an app like clear since the audience of a todo app is not everyone (especially kids)
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:04 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by iRCL View Post
Who the hell cares about the "story" behind software. Here's a story - a bunch of sweaty neckbeards sit in a disgusting lab area eating doritos and drinking mountain dew and farting, and out comes the Unreal engine. It's awesome. And basically nobody cares about the 'story' leading to it.
You're thinking of the people that play the games. Apart from the dictatorial management, game studios look like any other office for the most part.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:16 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
It is not a technique, it is a bedrock concept in economics, known as "economic value."

http://www.ecosystemvaluation.org/1-01.htm

Maybe he wasn't long-winded enough...
Bedrock concept it may be, but using it this way to try and convince people to buy your product is a "technique"

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorphingDragon View Post
You're thinking of the people that play the games. Apart from the dictatorial management, game studios look like any other office for the most part.
You miss the point - with really popular games, just like massively successful Movies like LOTR, there is a large fan base that love every "behind the scenes" item
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:34 PM   #63
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A few years ago, $15 for an Mac app of this caliber would have been considered a bargain. It's interesting how "app store economics" have changed people's expectations.
A few years ago I didn't even try to have mostly legitimately licensed software.

Now, I know I've been a bad boy, but in reality, that's how it works.

So I guess it's more people buy at a cheaper price instead of a select few buy for a high price.


I myself can't see me spending that amount of money for a todo application, sorry, I just can't.

I'm super happy with the stock Reminders app for that.
Also, Evernote's doing an awesome job in conjunction with AwesomeNote.

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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:38 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by akatsuki View Post
Developers can cry all they want, but they should learn a little bit of business:

Peter Drucker called it a deadly business sin:



When you talk about the labor you put into an app, that is all very nice, but the consumer doesn't care... All that matters is what people are willing to pay. So maybe when you think about developing an app - decide on the price it will sell at and then focus on putting the effort into it that gets you there and no more.
There are plenty of people complaining about the price, but that doesn't mean it isn't selling enough. He could easily sell it for cheaper, say $5. But will he get 3X as many sales? Not necessarily. Maybe more on the short term, but in the long run it will probably even out. More likely though he will get way more support requests from people who didn't actually want his app in the first place.

Of course trial versions would help a lot of these "pricing issues" to go away before they even start.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:44 PM   #65
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Unfortunately that's an overpriced app that really isn't that innovative.
Exist better and free out there.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:49 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by macpeach55 View Post
Bedrock concept it may be, but using it this way to try and convince people to buy your product is a "technique"
It was a little pedantic, but I didn't read it as a sales technique. I don't know what motivated him to try to explain his pricing policy, but what he said is essentially how pricing is done, whether it is explained to this level of detail or not.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:52 PM   #67
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Why of all things did he bring up jeans?

He is correct, pricing of those jeans strikes me the same way as the pricing of his app! Both are silly!

And for that matter, drinking is beyond silly and goes to retarded. You'll pay a lot of money for questionable value with definite repercussions? Shouldn't it be that you get paid to take such risks?

Anyways - the one thing he has right is that you need to determine the value of the app. His todo list isn't worth $15 - end of story.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 05:39 PM   #68
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Putting it simply:

I paid $0.99 for iOS Clear.

I am not paying more than that for a desktop app that does the same thing that I can't use on the go.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 05:45 PM   #69
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#1 I have to say that Peter Drucker is stating the obvious, so how does this quote prove him a genius?
hindsight is 20/20
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 05:58 PM   #70
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Why is this getting free advertising?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:14 PM   #71
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hindsight is 20/20
If you read the rest of the article, you will see that people think that way all the time - he basically points out that is why there is no US consumer electronics industry, because they would build things, add a profit margin and call it a day.

And developers who state, "I spent 50 bajillion months on this, so I am going to charge $20 so it was worth my time and effort" are doing the same thing. Nobody cares.

The question to ask is, "how much additional value does my app create to an end user versus the next best solution?". For Clear, the competition is Reminders, and it is free.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:18 PM   #72
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Get I get a Promo Code please?



(about the only way I'd buy it at this point).
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:39 PM   #73
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I don't have a problem with paying $15 for an app, but it should be worth the money. What does Clear do that Reminders can't? Nothing, it just looks cool. That just can't justify the purchase in my eyes.

I respect the amount of time and finances put in developing this app, and the fact that its developers need to live of something, but I'm not going to buy it just from sympathy I might feel towards them. This ain't no charity.

Devs: If you're afraid that time and money you've invested in developing the app would't pay off if you sold it for a reasonable price, your app is probably needless and you shouldn't bother writing it.
And spending 15 buck on something which my computer already has built-in is crazy. Take into account, that if you charged $1.99, you might attract 8 times more customers.

So, I as a customer, don't give a damn about how tough was to be to program the app, so don't come up with such stuff. I have to decide whether the app is useful for me, and if yes, if it is useful enough to be worth its price. And the logical result is no, Clear is not superior to Reminders which I've got for free, so buying it would be irrational.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:24 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by akatsuki View Post
Developers can cry all they want, but they should learn a little bit of business:

Peter Drucker called it a deadly business sin:

When you talk about the labor you put into an app, that is all very nice, but the consumer doesn't care... All that matters is what people are willing to pay. So maybe when you think about developing an app - decide on the price it will sell at and then focus on putting the effort into it that gets you there and no more.
Thank you.

Apple is the poster-child for price-driven costing. I can understand how some users can't grasp this concept, but if you're running a business in the Apple ecosystem and you're still setting your prices based on your costs, you may want to reconsider your career choice.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:32 PM   #75
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When you talk about the labor you put into an app, that is all very nice, but the consumer doesn't care... All that matters is what people are willing to pay. So maybe when you think about developing an app - decide on the price it will sell at and then focus on putting the effort into it that gets you there and no more.
If Steve Jobs had thought the way you do, there would be no Apple.
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