Apple Fires Manager Responsible for Maps as Eddy Cue Turns to Outsiders for Help

cmChimera said:

If anyone read my post to literally mean Apple has only erred once since its inception, they should get help.

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Hard to read your post without assuming you were on a ridiculous rant from start to finish. You can't blame him for assuming you were being literal. There's nothing in your post to imply you didn't believe your points 100%.

Maybe you need to improve your communication style/skills?

tbrinkma said:

Do you realize you're arguing that it makes more economic sense for Google to spread it's mapping costs over the volume of phones/devices which aren't producing a profit for them than it does for Apple to do the same over the swath of phones/devices which *are* producing a profit for them?

And, according to your lead-in argument, Google never could have caught up with the existing mapping service providers either, so they never should have tried either.

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I have no idea what you're rolling your eyes about.

A dollar spent on GMaps by google will reach reach 4-5x the user base of Apple.

A dollar spent by Apple on Apple maps will reach a fraction of GMaps.

Google can use the data gleaned from maps and user habits and location to sell extremely localized ads at premium prices. Maps complements Google's core business.

Apple makes money from hardware. Smaller base. Does apple do search? iAds? Will that make up for the costs of Apple Maps? How attractive will iAds be when it reaches a fraction of the population that Google does. Will the same dollar amount of advertising budget spent on iAds render superior or inferior results to Google?

I wonder. Not really.

Ad infinitum and you have a losing proposition for Apple.

It's just the nature of the beast when you run a closed ecosystem. There are pros and cons and this is one of the cons.

samcraig said:

Hard to read your post without assuming you were on a ridiculous rant from start to finish. You can't blame him for assuming you were being literal. There's nothing in your post to imply you didn't believe your points 100%.

Maybe you need to improve your communication style/skills?

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I'll dumb it down next time.

cmChimera said:

I'll dumb it down next time.

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Perhaps you should try the opposite. Your rant read like a grade schooler. Sorry if that offends you. But that's how it came off. Especially when a lot was in caps, etc.

Less rant, more substance. My .02

Liquorpuki said:

I think he's supposed to be going from green pin to red pin, not green pin to the middle of nowhere

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Thanks!

samcraig said:

I thought that was obvious myself.

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I just had a play with this, and oh my God! It is utterly utterly utterly utterly useless and a joke!

A town about 12 miles ish away from where I live has over 20 thousand residential homes, yet Apple think the Tesco Extra superstore there is in fact a Tesco Express tiny store, there is no Esso petrol station there even though there has been for years, oh and no PC World there either, in fact Apple think my nearest PC World is about 200 miles away!!!!
PC World is like Best Buy, a massive UK chain that has existed for several years, as has there store in the said town.

It's a total disaster, and if you notice when you peel the screen back for the settings, it states Data Provided by TomTom! And yesterdays TomTom app update release has removed google search from it and proudly states you can use TomTom to navigate to places found in Apple Maps!!

Good grief, the two of them have conspired together and managed to turn what was a pretty damn good navigation device into the worst joke of a navigation device on the market! JUST BRING BACK GOOGLE MAPS!!!!

samcraig said:

Perhaps you should try the opposite. Your rant read like a grade schooler. Sorry if that offends you. But that's how it came off. Especially when a lot was in caps, etc.

Less rant, more substance. My .02

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When the idea of my post is to mock the people who say those things, it SHOULD come off like that. I realize you're attempting to sound witty and/or pretentious, but I'm beginning to question your comprehension skills.

cmChimera said:

When the idea of my post is to mock the people who say those things, it SHOULD come off like that. I realize you're attempting to sound witty and/or pretentious, but I'm beginning to question your comprehension skills.

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No. But clearly you succeeded in behaving in the same manner since I and others couldn't tell you were mocking the "extreme" type posting.

cmChimera said:

When the idea of my post is to mock the people who say those things, it SHOULD come off like that. I realize you're attempting to sound witty and/or pretentious, but I'm beginning to question your comprehension skills.

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Mocking people is not a productive way to hold a conversation.

samcraig said:

No. But clearly you succeeded in behaving in the same manner since I and others couldn't tell you were mocking the "extreme" type posting.

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You clearly cannot read then.

KnightWRX said:

Mocking people is not a productive way to hold a conversation.

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In a topic about a failure of Apple's that incites many doom and gloom responses, calling out the blatant refusal of critics to acknowledge the innovative achievements of Apple this year seems quite relevant.

greatfx said:

It's always the lower level rank and file that take the fall. This manager was a scapegoat. His mission was impossible given the competition, time frame, and resources given. Due to Apple's closed nature, it is almost impossible for Apple to catch up.

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This is a possible explanation, unfortunately. Tim Cook seems to see the need to wield the iron rod quite a lot, which suggests one of two things: (1) that a lot of things are getting fouled up under his leadership, or (2) that his position is not entirely secure and he needs to demonstrate that he is the big dog. Neither explanation is very encouraging. If you'd asked me a year ago if anyone but Steve Jobs could run Apple, and I would have said, "why not?" Now I am not so sure. Firing a senior manager when the strategy itself was flawed is not a sign that Cook is running a tight and happy ship.

IJ Reilly said:

This is a possible explanation, unfortunately. Tim Cook seems to see the need to wield the iron rod quite a lot, which suggests one of two things: (1) that a lot of things are getting fouled up under his leadership, or (2) that his position is not entirely secure and he needs to demonstrate that he is the big dog. Neither explanation is very encouraging. If you'd asked me a year ago if anyone but Steve Jobs could run Apple, and I would have said, "why not?" Now I am not so sure. Firing a senior manager when the strategy itself was flawed is not a sign that Cook is running a tight and happy ship.

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Or (3) this amount of turnover is normal in a company the size of Apple, especially after a change in CEO, and decisions like these are over-analyzed simply because of Apple's popularity.

cmChimera said:

In a topic about a failure of Apple's that incites many doom and gloom responses, calling out the blatant refusal of critics to acknowledge the innovative achievements of Apple this year seems quite relevant.

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Are you taking this maybe a weee bit personal ?

Mocking people is not a great way to convince them that their scenario might be a tad hyperbolic in light of Apple's achievements vs its failures.

And that aside, I haven't seen much doom and gloom in this thread. This is a topic about maps, obviously it can't really be positive.

BaldiMac said:

Or (3) this amount of turnover is normal in a company the size of Apple, especially after a change in CEO, and decisions like these are over-analyzed simply because of Apple's popularity.

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The last few months hardly count as normal, at least not at Apple, where the top management team has been intact for quite awhile. Management shakeups are not a sign of a well-run organization. They often point to failures that nobody at the top will own up to. As one of the largest corporations on the planet, I think it is not at all surprising that we're are anxious to read the tea leaves. What I'm seeing right now is not good. I hope they are actually fixing problems and not simply rearranging deck chairs.

KnightWRX said:

Are you taking this maybe a weee bit personal ?

Mocking people is not a great way to convince them that their scenario might be a tad hyperbolic in light of Apple's achievements vs its failures.

And that aside, I haven't seen much doom and gloom in this thread. This is a topic about maps, obviously it can't really be positive.

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I'm not taking it personally, and again I called out hyperbolic statements with hyperbolic statements. I find it to be relevant to the topic. If you don't get it then move on.

cmChimera said:

You clearly cannot read then.

In a topic about a failure of Apple's that incites many doom and gloom responses, calling out the blatant refusal of critics to acknowledge the innovative achievements of Apple this year seems quite relevant.

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But the innovations Apple has made this year could be argued as to pale in comparison to how many people actually used Google Maps, and on a daily basis too. People don't care about retina screens and thin designs when you can't use a device to navigate somewhere that worked perfectly well before they updated, all thanks to Apples 'innovating'.

apolloa said:

But the innovations Apple has made this year could be argued as to pale in comparison to how many people actually used Google Maps, and on a daily basis too. People don't care about retina screens and thin designs when you can't use a device to navigate somewhere that worked perfectly well before they updated, all thanks to Apples 'innovating'.

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First, thanks for addressing my actual point. Secondly, I agree that Maps is a misstep and one that could have possibly been avoided. That said, I don't think it is enough of a misstep to overshadow the rMBP. I do think that it mars the image of iOS being the best mobile OS and at the worst possible time. They need to quickly make improvements or it could hurt in the long run. But I don't think Google Maps was all that much better, and I'm in the same position I was before Apple Maps. Android had a better maps app before, it still does.

Dr McKay said:

One would hope so, it tells me my nearest pub is 47 miles away. Anyone living in the UK knows this is impossible.

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You should see Wisconsin.

apolloa said:

People don't care about retina screens and thin designs when you can't use a device to navigate somewhere that worked perfectly well before they updated, all thanks to Apples 'innovating'.

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Continuing to rely on Google for mapping was untenable. A company must never be dependent on a competitor. The break from Google Maps is painful but necessary. Apple should have started cutting ties with Google the moment they released Android.

cmChimera said:

You clearly cannot read then.

In a topic about a failure of Apple's that incites many doom and gloom responses, calling out the blatant refusal of critics to acknowledge the innovative achievements of Apple this year seems quite relevant.

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cmChimera said:

I'm not taking it personally, and again I called out hyperbolic statements with hyperbolic statements. I find it to be relevant to the topic. If you don't get it then move on.

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Yes. I believe you are taking it personally. And we can all read. The problem is - you're hyperbolic in all your points. At first I thought you were saying you were mocking everyone on this thread. And that your WHOLE post was mockery. But you just made it clear - the only mocking you were doing was the doom and gloom part.

This is where your post failed. Because the entire post is written as if you're a hyperventilating teen about to see Justin Bieber.

cmChimera said:

First, thanks for addressing my actual point. Secondly, I agree that Maps is a misstep and one that could have possibly been avoided. That said, I don't think it is enough of a misstep to overshadow the rMBP. I do think that it mars the image of iOS being the best mobile OS and at the worst possible time. They need to quickly make improvements or it could hurt in the long run. But I don't think Google Maps was all that much better, and I'm in the same position I was before Apple Maps. Android had a better maps app before, it still does.

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Yeap, Apple really needs to pull it's belts up and sort it out, a map app is pointless when it doesn't know about the location of well known places and businesses etc.
I'm not sure how quick the fix will be, if they approved the Google app that was submitted that would help but I have read they have chosen not to?

It is annoying though that their seems to be an anti Google attitude that's developed which is a shame as you said, Androids maps is better.

LagunaSol said:

Continuing to rely on Google for mapping was untenable. A company must never be dependent on a competitor. The break from Google Maps is painful but necessary. Apple should have started cutting ties with Google the moment they released Android.

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No. Apple should only "cut ties" when/if they have something comparable or better than their business partners. Notice I say partner not competitor. Because they had a business arrangement.

The issue now is that they releases something that is arguably worse and not on par with what they had. IE - it was premature.

I am not arguing that they should or should not cut ties. But the timing is important. And this is where the criticism lies. It wasn't time. yet.

LagunaSol said:

Continuing to rely on Google for mapping was untenable. A company must never be dependent on a competitor. The break from Google Maps is painful but necessary. Apple should have started cutting ties with Google the moment they released Android.

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Why exactly is it necessary to drop something that works and people use just to be arrogant towards a competitive product they make? Should Apple drop every Samsung device and component from it's products because of it's legal war with them?
it makes for bad business practices, you learn to work with your competitors if it's products help sell your products.

LagunaSol said:

Continuing to rely on Google for mapping was untenable. A company must never be dependent on a competitor. The break from Google Maps is painful but necessary. Apple should have started cutting ties with Google the moment they released Android.

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Maybe Apple should stop rely on AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint for channeling their iPhone too, you know?

Because like it or not, carriers are Apple's competitor too. They sell Android and Windows phones as well and help competitor grows.

Oh yes, also from Intel since they also make chips for Dell, or HP. And also stop paying license to ARM.

True .. a company must never be dependent on a competitor, partnership is strictly for mere mortals, not for a God company like

apolloa said:

Why exactly is it necessary to drop something that works and people use just to be arrogant towards a competitive product they make? Should Apple drop every Samsung device and component from it's products because of it's legal war with them?
it makes for bad business practices, you learn to work with your competitors if it's products help sell your products.

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While there is some overlap, Apple and Google are far from competitors. Apple is mostly in the business of selling integrated systems which include hardware and OSes. 50% of its revenue is from the iPhone, another 40% is Macs/iPads/iPods. The added content like services (iCloud/App Store) are just meant to help sweeting the deal.

Google's main focus is web services, including search/mapping/e-mail, which they monetize through advertising. Mobile OSes are a means to get their services out there to more people.

So in essence, Apple and Google aren't really competitors. Their main areas of revenue are poles apart and the overlap is mostly in the added value they provided to better their offering, not really their core money makers.

As such, they should cooperate more. Apple could really benefit from Google's services, their core, for added values to their devices and Google can benefit from Apple's systems, reaching broader audiences. They complement each other and as such, the bickering over non-core parts of their business should simply stop. It's hurting us users in the end.