Scott Forstall Deserved to be Ousted from Apple Says Former Apple Exec

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by Dreamer2go

I think it's a good move.
Seeing the "shredder" in Passbook made me wonder: this isn't iOS like...

Actually it is totally iOS like. Because under Forstall, iOS was riddled with useless nonutility animation exactly like this one. Some animations can be useful, but not all of them. And Jony was against having them for the sake of having them. Forstall was all about doing it because you can, putting in flashy trash etc. same with all the non animated skeuromorphic stuff. Some has utility, some doesn't. Jony was pretty openly against the latter.

His open disdain for such things may be part of why Forstall is gone. It is possible have the massive issues with iOS 6 that Cook felt Forstall needed to be reigned in and have an overseer. He may have been planning Sir Jony's new position to be that person with Forstall in charge of engineering the designs given to him much like Mansfield did with the hardware designs. But Forstall is rumored to have been such a total ass that he refused for years to take feedback or instruction from anyone but Steve Jobs. And that his disdain and disrespect continued after Steve was gone despite Tim Cook being Steve's choice. F this was even half true then it is plausible Forstall cried foul at the plan and was told he had a choice to either get over himself, walk away now or he would be allowed to stay as a non voting advisor until iOS 7 comes out and he received his big stock award due next spring/summer. And he picked the last.

[DRFUMANCHU350]

Maybe a little sour grapes?? One has designed an operation system that's second to none and has been stolen buy google and the other one, Make REALLY Expensive thermostats!!

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by bumblebritches5

I've NEVER liked Forstall, he always seemed like an arrogant *******, adn i'm glad he's not apart of Apple anymore.

I felt he wasn't as personable as Steve and had a kind of 'hide your kids' look about him.

When Steve first started bringing the rest of the gang on stage I thought it was just that Forstall, like Cook, wasn't used to being on front of folks. As someone once said, engineers aren't people persons (well not public speakers generally). But unlike Cook, Forstall hasn't warmed up. If anything he seemed more cocky as time went on

[CFreymarc]

Totally agree here. I had a few run in's with a young engineer working on the NeXT OS whom was under various parts of Steve's body. He feared anyone who was better than him and used his position to keep that talent away.

Steve loved engineers that did not stay in one niche. However, a product as big as the iOS needs someone that does not read every line of code.

Good riddance! Can't believe he made it this far.

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by DRFUMANCHU350

and the other one, Make REALLY Expensive thermostats!!

I think you mean oversaw the development of an MP3 player that rewrote the market and boosted the company's value several times over. And with out which said phone etc might never exist.

[wgnoyes]

Sounds like sour grapes. Scott Forstall was difficult to work with? Like Steve Jobs wasn't?

[RobNYC]

Originally Posted by gnasher729

Hard to say. Steve Jobs left Apple because (1) he got himself in the weaker position in a power struggle, and (2) he was at the time that he left clever and determined, but also young, unexperienced, and to some extent lucky to be in the position he was in. The Steve Jobs that came back 15 years later was just as clever and determined, but he had 15 years of learning, 15 years of character building experiences, and he had grown up. If the Steve Jobs that returned had been the same one as the Steve Jobs that left, Apple would be history. He wasn't.

I think Forstall's qualities are not quite the same as Steve Jobs', and his faults are not faults that will be going away when he grows up - too late for that.

He also changed a major company dynamic when he came back. They were still focused on competing with Microsoft. He basically said that war was over and Microsoft won so they should stop trying to beat them and concentrate on a more narrow product line.

[AppliedMicro]

Originally Posted by Krazy Bill

Forstall gave us Leopard

Forstall was indeed credited with "most notably" 10.5 Leopard. However, Leopard also notably was a visual crapfest in some ways: Translucent menu bar, 3D dock, Stacks' pseudo-3D view, which was bordering on unusable for people with more than a dozen documents in a folder. Time Machine's campy interface certainly foreshadowed the recent trends towards skeumorphism (which I personally loathe), just to mention a few. And buggy it was!

Originally Posted by Krazy Bill

and from there, Snow Leopard.

Probably less so. Forstall was promoted to Vice President of iOS software in 2008 and had been guiding iOS releases before that. We can safely assume that he was less involved in OS X by then.

Originally Posted by Krazy Bill

Now we have that crap they call 10.8.

...which is basically iOS having been ported "back to the Mac".

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by Beeplance

if he was given time to reorganise the team like how Eddy is doing now.

You assume Forstall would have reorganized. He may have thought such a move wasn't needed. After all, he apparently wasn't willing to take one in the name of PR and seemed to think the issue was customers expecting to much from a new product. And he could be partially right. But sometimes you still apologize to make folks feel better and to let them know you are listening.

And even if Tim thought it should happen, rumor has it that Forstall didn't take Cook's feedback as anything of merit so he might have ignored the idea if he thought it a bad one.

----------

Originally Posted by kas23

Seriously, why are they waiting until the new year to boot his ass out? I would have given him an hour to gather his keepsakes and then provided him with an escort out of the building.

Because in Cali you can't enforce a post employment non compete deal. And Forstall likely has info about where they were planning to go with iOS 7.

The only way to keep him away from other companies while Apple gets the work near ready, appropriate patents filed etc is to keep Forstall on the books for a little while longer.

We do it in Hollywood when we want to keep folks in one commercial from doing one for the competing brands or someone on a TV show from doing another one that might cause filming issues

[benjalamelami]

I dont think anyones to bloat about some one's else's mistakes.

[TouchMint.com]

Glad Scott is out! With his latest update to the iOS App Store he pretty much ruined it. There is no visibility and because of the devs and customers suffer. I mean really why would users want to see “total revenue section” instead of a “new apps” section? I understand why developers would want to see something like that but that’s what reports are for not user end interfaces. This is just one of the many problems but yea not sorry to see him go.

[bronxred]

Originally Posted by TouchMint.com

I mean really why would users want to see “total revenue section” instead of a “new apps” section?

I never understood that! As a developer, what's your theory?

[ThunderSkunk]

Weird that the interviewer tries three times to push him into dangerous territory. What did he think Fadell was going to do, just shut his brain off, open his mouth and walk right into a lawsuit?

Well handled.

[Rogifan]

Originally Posted by wgnoyes

Sounds like sour grapes. Scott Forstall was difficult to work with? Like Steve Jobs wasn't?

So you're suggesting Scott Forstall is equal to Steve Jobs? I mean there's a reason people tolerated Steve being a jerk.

[Radio]

Originally Posted by iamPro

I'm not saying Android is any bad or worse than Apple as it is now...
But, you got to remember Android could only have gotten better considering how bad it was at the beginning.

On the other hand iOS pretty much nailed it from the start.
So, obviously Android would look like it is making bigger improvements than iOS.

Ill buy that.

Can you see though that iOS has been surpassed by android ?

[IJ Reilly]

Originally Posted by whooleytoo

Anyone else a bit worried by public comments like these?

If he wasn't good for the company, it's good that he's gone, fine. But what's to be gained by a public "Nah...nah... we're thrilled he's gone" (Faddell is no longer in Apple, but the reports of applause when Forstall was fired, or 'anonymous' sources within Apple commenting). There are politics and battles of egos in every big company, it's unavoidable. But public sniping like this is a bit petty and juvenile, and does nothing other than sour the atmosphere - particularly if Forstall still has a role at Apple for some months.

You are quite right. Airing dirty laundry in public is never cool.

[paul4339]

Originally Posted by addicted44

Tony Faddell is clearly biased. His idea, of basing the iPhone OS on the iPod OS was shot down in favor of Forstall's idea of basing it on Mac OS X. And I think this was the right decision.

...

I think he wanted to base it on Linux, not the iPod OS. The iPod OS idea came be because they didn't know if iPod OS or OS X was better suited for a phone... So Steve created/pitted two teams - Fadell was naturally assigned to lead and champion the iPod OS team... but I don't think he wanted the iPod OS... He also agreed that OS X was better suited when both results were compared.

[KdParker]

Originally Posted by prowlmedia

Um.. no. Arrogance is exactly the reason to dislike someone.. Why would you like someone like that.

for example I've met Simon Cowell and guess what he is a complete arse.

Kayne West too. Tosser.

Not in the world of business. There are lots of arrogant people and you don't have to like them to appreciate what they have done.

And how did you relate this to Simon Cowell and Kayne West?
Maybe thier public persona is an act to keep them in the public eye in order to maximize thier earnings. They have you talking about them

[John.B]

Originally Posted by Roller

Clearly, Fadell could have said much more about Forstall and their working relationship (or lack thereof) in this interview. But a polite "I'm not going to comment on that" would have gotten the message across in a much classier way.

That was my take as well:

"Stay classy, Tony!"

[KdParker]

Originally Posted by Radio

Ill buy that.

Can you see though that iOS has been surpassed by android ?

I wouldn't say surpassed. All depends on personal preferences.

If you are serious about this OS conversation you would include windows phone too.

----------

Originally Posted by prowlmedia

I wouldn't say bland. It's Usable for millions - Unlike The many variations of Geekdroid. Nothing wrong with the Android platform but I showed 5 different variations of it to my parents. And they didn't have a clue ( also to a 4 year old ).

The only thing I have ever shown my parents on the iPad is the Home button. Even then - it was just "That button at the bottom takes you home" The rest they figured out. Even printing and setting up a printer!!!!! Which has been the bain of my parental tech support life for 15 years.

Android is not as intuative and only made worse by skins and fragmentation and horrible design choices by HTC and Samsung - though it looks like Google are reigning that in - They should have controlled the UI from the start.

Look at OSX - they have made simple and nice incremental changes over the past 12 years of OSX and it works and users can pick it up easily...

Reminds me of this! Great series of videos How Real People Will Use Windows 8

Features on iOS are lacking however and certainly Could do with Gizmo's. Passport is ok - shouldn't have been pushed so much as a 'Feature' and just needs more companies on board. I suspect when Visa get their whole payment system rolling with RFID etc then Apple will use that as payment engine.

Completly agree. People forget about the intuitiveness IOS. Android still isn't very intuitive.

[theanimaster]

Tony stayed on as advisor to Apple for two years, Forstall -- one.

Forstall was a complete prick who messed up OS X and castrated iOS.

[theanimaster]

Originally Posted by throAU

You realise cook was instrumental in turning apple into a profitable business again?

True, wouldn't be surprised to learn that he was pretty much running the company years before Steve's departure.

Tim Cook was the one who cut all the unnecessary spending, closed stores that weren't turning a profit and basically streamlined everything.

With spending down and easier choices for consumers, Apple started making money again!

----------

Originally Posted by Smigit

I can't see it happening at all to be honest. By all reports he is great when it comes to technology, however unlike jobs did, it seems pretty clear he doesn't hold the respect of his peers which would be pretty fundamental for any come back effort.

While he has spent a good deal of his working life at Apple, I doubt he has one fifth of the emotional attachment to it that Jobs had. I really don't see him having the same passion towards Apple that Jobs had, even if it does mean a lot to him.

Also back when Jobs returned, Apple were desperate. It would be a huge swing in momentum for them to have to make a similar move to get him and outside of a technical role, I'm not sure what he would offer that the other executives can't. I'm sure Forstall will do great things, but I don't think he'll be coming back as CEO of Apple or anything like that.

Great?? When Scott worked on OS X (Leopard) it became THE first version of OS X to be so ******* that it wouldn't install properly! Fortunately he didn't continue with OS X, but the damage had been dealt.

[dday408]

"... he got what he deserved..."

Tony wanted to port iPod interface to iPhone while Scott won with the slimmer version of Mac OS, aka iOS, on iPhone. Tony left in 2010 and he's still bitter about the lost of the battle. Sigh... Does Tony now see how wrong he could have been if iPhone had gone with the old iPad interface?

[jshulman10]

Way to doge the question.

[OllyW]

Originally Posted by dday408

"... he got what he deserved..."

Tony wanted to port iPod interface to iPhone while Scott won with the slimmer version of Mac OS, aka iOS, on iPhone. Tony left in 2010 and he's still bitter about the lost of the battle. Sigh... Does Tony now see how wrong he could have been if iPhone had gone with the old iPad interface?

Yes. He agreed that Apple made the correct choice...

Originally Posted by Tony Fadell

I quickly shuttered the project after assessing that a modified Mac OS was the right platform to build the iPhone upon.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...122011.html#p6