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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:57 PM   #376
cmChimera
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Yes. I believe you are taking it personally. And we can all read. The problem is - you're hyperbolic in all your points. At first I thought you were saying you were mocking everyone on this thread. And that your WHOLE post was mockery. But you just made it clear - the only mocking you were doing was the doom and gloom part.

This is where your post failed. Because the entire post is written as if you're a hyperventilating teen about to see Justin Bieber.
Get over it dude, I'm not really here to justify my post to you. You failed to comprehend my post. Move on.

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Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
Yeap, Apple really needs to pull it's belts up and sort it out, a map app is pointless when it doesn't know about the location of well known places and businesses etc.
I'm not sure how quick the fix will be, if they approved the Google app that was submitted that would help but I have read they have chosen not to?

It is annoying though that their seems to be an anti Google attitude that's developed which is a shame as you said, Androids maps is better.
I haven't heard anything about Apple actually denying the Google maps app besides speculation. I think they'll approve it.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:57 PM   #377
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Why are they doing this? I recently traveled to Nashville for Thanksgiving and I used the maps and found my destination spot on. There is nothing wrong with this app.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:59 PM   #378
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I have a solution, scrap Maps and put Google Maps back on it.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:06 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by mariusaz View Post
I have a solution, scrap Maps and put Google Maps back on it.
That's not a solution.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:08 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Tiger8 View Post
It will be approved. I think the whole thing about it being possibly rejected is media hype from google. Apple might even bend backward a little to approve it. Too high profile to be denied now.

Luckily after updating my iPad and seeing how horrible it is, I kept my phone on iOS 5, I refuse to upgrade until I get google maps back.
Google maps is all I'm waiting for before I upgrade. I can't even be bothered about jail breaking anymore. It's not worth the hassle.

----------

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Originally Posted by mp3junkie View Post
Why are they doing this? I recently traveled to Nashville for Thanksgiving and I used the maps and found my destination spot on. There is nothing wrong with this app.
You're right. Maps works for this one person everyone! Bring the fella back, clearly we were all mistaken..
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:28 PM   #381
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I searched for McDonalds the other day, and it took me to this guys house named "McDonald". To top it off.. he didn't have any burgers.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:40 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by JRoDDz View Post
I searched for McDonalds the other day, and it took me to this guys house named "McDonald". To top it off.. he didn't have any burgers.
"No hamburger... Cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger.., no fries - chips... no coke.... pepsi" - John Belushi
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 11:12 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by iSayuSay View Post
Maybe Apple should stop rely on AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint for channeling their iPhone too, you know?

Because like it or not, carriers are Apple's competitor too. They sell Android and Windows phones as well and help competitor grows.

Oh yes, also from Intel since they also make chips for Dell, or HP. And also stop paying license to ARM.

True .. a company must never be dependent on a competitor, partnership is strictly for mere mortals, not for a God company like
I don't think you know what competitor means.

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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
While there is some overlap, Apple and Google are far from competitors.
I'm pretty sure Apple would disagree with you.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 12:13 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by AppleInMyBlood View Post
So what do you suggest they do? Keep the people responsible on staff and give up?
That would be a bit much... I would need to know more though, like what ELSE this person was responsible for while he was at Apple. If he brought us twenty great things and one bad (just an example), perhaps firing him is too harsh.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 03:39 AM   #385
shotts56
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Originally Posted by mp3junkie View Post
Why are they doing this? I recently traveled to Nashville for Thanksgiving and I used the maps and found my destination spot on. There is nothing wrong with this app.
Ideal. The next time I want to travel to Nashville on Thanksgiving, I'll use Apple Maps.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:00 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
The last few months hardly count as normal, at least not at Apple, where the top management team has been intact for quite awhile.
Faddell, Papermaster, Johnson, Rubinstein, Tevanian, and a few more big names that I'm forgetting have all left Apple in the last decade.

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Management shakeups are not a sign of a well-run organization. They often point to failures that nobody at the top will own up to. As one of the largest corporations on the planet, I think it is not at all surprising that we're are anxious to read the tea leaves. What I'm seeing right now is not good. I hope they are actually fixing problems and not simply rearranging deck chairs.
Maybe. But how common are they after a change in CEO? Seems pretty reasonable to me especially considering the differences in expertise between the current and former CEO.

And why are we pretending that some maps guy that we've never heard of is a significant management shakeup? Forstall is the only significant departure under Cook, and that is hardly unprecedented at Apple.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:25 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by djdover View Post
Google maps is all I'm waiting for before I upgrade. I can't even be bothered about jail breaking anymore. It's not worth the hassle.[COLOR="#808080"]
I hear you!

To be honest, I didn't have a fuzzy feeling about this since last June, when they made the announcement. Coincidently I was working on integrating Google Maps into a custom CRM application for a client, the WEALTH of information in google maps is mind blowing to say the least! To top it off, they also have an unmatched API that does wonders when faced with addresses not in its database (weather mistyped or brand new).
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:50 AM   #388
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I've not had any problems with Apple maps myself, the only complaint I'd have would be to the colouring used.
Sure it might look nice, but there are standard colours for roads here in the UK. Motorways are Blue, major A roads are Green. On Apple maps they're all the same colour so you can't just glance at the screen and see how close you are to the motorway for example, which I really needed to do when I had to divert a couple of weeks ago.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 09:35 AM   #389
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Waiting for google maps so I can bury iOS maps in my "useless" folder
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:38 AM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Faddell, Papermaster, Johnson, Rubinstein, Tevanian, and a few more big names that I'm forgetting have all left Apple in the last decade.
With the possible exception of Papermaster (and Browett), none of these people were axed as part of a management shakeup; not that we know about, anyway. Most of them either retired or moved onto other companies or projects.

Quote:
Maybe. But how common are they after a change in CEO? Seems pretty reasonable to me especially considering the differences in expertise between the current and former CEO.

And why are we pretending that some maps guy that we've never heard of is a significant management shakeup? Forstall is the only significant departure under Cook, and that is hardly unprecedented at Apple.
Because the management shakeup has been going on for several months now, and management reorganizations (especially prolonged) are a classic sign of dysfunction. It looks for all the world like Cook is pulling his wagons up into a circle, quite possibly finding underlings to blame for a strategic mistake for which he was at least partially responsible. Apple is really under the microscope these days for obvious reasons, and investors are going to be looking for evidence of unsteadiness in top leadership. Unfortunately Cook is providing that evidence at the moment. As an investor and Apple fan I hope it ends soon.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:40 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Where you are right is that maps are a problem that isn't solved by engineers. It's solved by lots of little people driving around in lots of little cars.
Plus the reporting coming from users to help improve the maps data. And therein lies the rub...

A) A significant number of iOS device owners are sticking with iOS 5 (and, thus, never installing the new Apple Maps app).

B) The moment that Google gets its own Maps app into the App Store, that will SIGNIFICANTLY hamper the number of user reports coming from the field because I predict millions of iOS 6 users will switch to using Google's Maps app instead of Apple's.

Apple's only prayer to prevent the second is to never allow the Google Maps app to be available in the App Store. That, in itself, would be a public relations nightmare. And you can bet Google won't keep it a secret if its app gets rejected.

I see no upside for Apple to continue to travel the path it's traveling with regard to the native Maps app in iOS 6. Failing to reach a new agreement with Google was the biggest blunder Apple has made since the introduction of the iPhone. Apple no longer delivers the best user experience when it comes to Maps. It's time for the two companies to get together and work out a truce to all of this thermonuclear war crap.

The iPhone 5 is the first iPhone that I won't be buying. iOS 6 is the first iOS upgrade that I won't be installing (pending a native Maps app that uses Google's mapping data). I have many hardcore Apple fan friends that feel the same way. One of those friends upgraded his iPhone 4S to iOS 6 before he realized there were problems with the Maps app. At first, he tried hard to be satisfied (as many hardcore Apple fans might do). But, eventually, the expressions of frustration with Apple's new Maps app came pouring out. Now he's officially fed up.

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Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:51 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by Grifter View Post
Waiting for google maps so I can bury iOS maps in my "useless" folder
Ditto, sort of. I haven't upgraded to iOS 6 so I've still got a decent native Maps app, completely with Street View (which is far more valuable to me than Flyover). But I'd consider upgrading to iOS 6 once Google's Maps app is available. I really prefer to wait until Google's Maps app is the native maps app, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

BTW, I've got one of those folders too, with several of Apple's native apps in it. Too bad Apple won't let us just delete them. And, even better, Apple should let the user choose which app is the "native" app when automatically launched by another app (such as touching on an address in the Contacts app).

Mark
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 02:05 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by greatfx View Post
I have no idea what you're rolling your eyes about.

A dollar spent on GMaps by google will reach reach 4-5x the user base of Apple.

A dollar spent by Apple on Apple maps will reach a fraction of GMaps.

Google can use the data gleaned from maps and user habits and location to sell extremely localized ads at premium prices. Maps complements Google's core business.

Apple makes money from hardware. Smaller base. Does apple do search? iAds? Will that make up for the costs of Apple Maps? How attractive will iAds be when it reaches a fraction of the population that Google does. Will the same dollar amount of advertising budget spent on iAds render superior or inferior results to Google?

I wonder. Not really.

Ad infinitum and you have a losing proposition for Apple.

It's just the nature of the beast when you run a closed ecosystem. There are pros and cons and this is one of the cons.
I'm rolling my eyes at the idea that, since both Android and Google Maps are currently a net *loss* for Google, rather than a net gain, it somehow makes 'more financial sense' for them to spend money on it than it does for Apple, which currently has a financial gain associated with iOS.

Currently, each dollar Google spends on Google Maps goes into a product that *costs* them money.
Currently, each dollar Apple spends on Apple Maps goes into a product which *earns* them money.

The idea that it makes 'more financial sense' for Google to spend that dollar than for Apple to spend that dollar makes no sense. The fact that Apple Maps reaches a smaller audience than Google Maps has absolutely no bearing on which makes 'more financial sense'.

If I can, for a cost of $1/each earn $.50/each from a million people, would it make 'more financial sense' to do that, or to spend that $1/each to earn $1.10 from a quarter-million people?

Does that clear it up?
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 12:14 AM   #394
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"Cruel to be kind, in the right measure.

Cruel to be kind, it's a very good sign.

Cruel to be kind, means that I love you.

Baby! You gotta be cruel to be kind!"

love it!
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 01:59 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
With the possible exception of Papermaster (and Browett), none of these people were axed as part of a management shakeup; not that we know about, anyway. Most of them either retired or moved onto other companies or projects.
Faddell was a very similar situation. But you are again ignoring the change in CEO. A change in management structure with a new CEO is relatively normal.

Quote:
Because the management shakeup has been going on for several months now, and management reorganizations (especially prolonged) are a classic sign of dysfunction. It looks for all the world like Cook is pulling his wagons up into a circle, quite possibly finding underlings to blame for a strategic mistake for which he was at least partially responsible. Apple is really under the microscope these days for obvious reasons, and investors are going to be looking for evidence of unsteadiness in top leadership. Unfortunately Cook is providing that evidence at the moment. As an investor and Apple fan I hope it ends soon.
Or Cook has taken a year to evaluate how he wants to run the company and has now decided to reorganize the management structure in a way that works better for him.

Your "quite possibly finding underlings to blame for a strategic mistake for which he was at least partially responsible" theory is just unsupported FUD.

Where is this "prolonged" shakeup? Cook fired Forstall and immediately announced the reorganization. Nothing prolonged about it.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 02:35 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
Currently, each dollar Google spends on Google Maps goes into a product that *costs* them money.
Currently, each dollar Apple spends on Apple Maps goes into a product which *earns* them money.
Evidence? Here, perhaps this fact will save some time:

Google has testified (*) that, while the majority of mobile searches come from iOS, the majority of their mobile income has nothing to do with mobile searches, but instead comes from embedded ads in apps. And those ads equate to an average of $7 revenue per device per year, no matter whether it's an iOS or Android device.

(*) A while back, there was a lot of publicity about Google's testimony before Congress that was cut off just as they were talking about where most searches came from. Most bloggers repeated the mistaken assumption that this was related to revenue. However, if you actually listen to the entire testimony instead of that 10 second sound bite, the real meaning becomes clear. See explanation above.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 07:12 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Faddell was a very similar situation. But you are again ignoring the change in CEO. A change in management structure with a new CEO is relatively normal.
I am not ignoring it, in fact I attributed the internal issues to the CEO change. Unlike you however I am not prepared to assume that all changes wrought by a new CEO are necessarily productive or done for good reasons.

Quote:
Or Cook has taken a year to evaluate how he wants to run the company and has now decided to reorganize the management structure in a way that works better for him.

Your "quite possibly finding underlings to blame for a strategic mistake for which he was at least partially responsible" theory is just unsupported FUD.

Where is this "prolonged" shakeup? Cook fired Forstall and immediately announced the reorganization. Nothing prolonged about it.
A month of chair shuffling is a prolonged reorganization in business. Cook has had a lot longer than a year to know and understand Apple's internals. What you are missing is the growing perception that Apple might not be the tight ship it was under the Jobs leadership. Several negatives have cropped up in the last few months. I assume nothing, but offer one very plausible scenario to explain the Maps fiasco: a "must ship by" command. These kinds of directives come from above, not below.

I have an awful lot of my worldly goods wrapped up in Apple, so my interest is very personal. Your FUD accusation is utter rubbish.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 07:33 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post
The moment the Google version of the Maps app becomes available in the App store is the moment that Apple's ability to gather the mapping data it needs will be severely constrained. Millions will switch to using Google's Maps app whenever possible.
Millions more will prefer the OS and Siri integration.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post
Plus the reporting coming from users to help improve the maps data. And therein lies the rub...

A) A significant number of iOS device owners are sticking with iOS 5 (and, thus, never installing the new Apple Maps app).



B) The moment that Google gets its own Maps app into the App Store, that will SIGNIFICANTLY hamper the number of user reports coming from the field because I predict millions of iOS 6 users will switch to using Google's Maps app instead of Apple's.
A: Are you on drugs? iOS broke 61% adoption rate in 30 days



B: You're wrong because Google Maps will never be the default mapping solution, which will hamper any prayer of it being a big maps player on iOS. Even if every user downloads it, within a month, most will default back to the default app with the better integration.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 08:52 PM   #399
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A: Are you on drugs? iOS broke 61% adoption rate in 30 days
And what drugs are you on - IOS self-updates. You have to fight to avoid the update.

This statistic simply says that 39% managed to defeat the automatic update feature.

Nothing more.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 09:19 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
I'm rolling my eyes at the idea that, since both Android and Google Maps are currently a net *loss* for Google, rather than a net gain, it somehow makes 'more financial sense' for them to spend money on it than it does for Apple, which currently has a financial gain associated with iOS.

Currently, each dollar Google spends on Google Maps goes into a product that *costs* them money.
Currently, each dollar Apple spends on Apple Maps goes into a product which *earns* them money.

The idea that it makes 'more financial sense' for Google to spend that dollar than for Apple to spend that dollar makes no sense. The fact that Apple Maps reaches a smaller audience than Google Maps has absolutely no bearing on which makes 'more financial sense'.

If I can, for a cost of $1/each earn $.50/each from a million people, would it make 'more financial sense' to do that, or to spend that $1/each to earn $1.10 from a quarter-million people?

Does that clear it up?
I don't agree that the number of users has no bearing. That is a ridiculous premise. The internet practically runs on page views, and attached to that is adverts which makes things sustainable.

Even if Maps loses money, which is doubtful, the use of maps is not limited to Android. iOS users can and do use it on their browser and more importantly, people can use it on their computer browser, independent of any OS, Ubuntu, OSX, Windows, etc.

Before my smartphone days, mapquest was my go to to print out directions, now supplanted by Google maps. Maps draws in many eyes. Can Apple leverage the same? Can you access Apple Maps through the browser? Google Maps, even if a net loss, which is highly doubtful, undoubtedly plays a large part in making Google an indispensable part of your life. Look at the outcry now that the limited version of maps has been removed. Google insidiously makes their products so useful that you'll be questioning how you got along without it before.

Imagine if Apple created a search engine. Imagine that Apple's search results were comparable to Google's, maybe even a little bit superior. However, the caveat is that only iPhone users and people with Apple computers could utilize the search.

Compare that against Google search which is device independent. If you can connect to the internet, you can use Google search.

Where will the advertisers go? Where will the money flow to?

Android does not define Google. Google Maps does not define Google. Google defines Google. They provide a service.

Apple? Apple's identity is hugely tied into iOS and is largely defined by the iPhone and iPad, with Macs taking a seat in the back row.
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