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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:07 AM   #276
wovel
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Originally Posted by Mr. Gates View Post
Not sure how its a fail.

It's not even for sale yet. Lets see how people respond to it before we start up with the usual partisan bashing.

For a touch, 1080p like this, I would say it ain't bad.

And I can guarantee you 90% of people who want this were waiting for the Pro.

I admit, RT is a joke, but this might be pretty sweet
You guarantee it? Excellent. Please demonstrate that this is the case, otherwise I demand a refund or at least some replacement information of equal value.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:08 AM   #277
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4 hr battery life = instant fail, with or without 1080p and pen and what not
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:11 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Mr. Gates View Post
Install a torrent client on your iPad, I dare you. Or any other Mac program.

You can't do it, I'll tell you why because everyone is confused :That's a big iPod touch !

This is a full OS WITH ...( W I T H ) touch
Which they tried years ago and it failed, full desktop apps don't work well on tablets.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:14 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Leonard1818 View Post
A tablet that can do more things like a computer... sounds like a not-so-fail to me. but with your 4-word post, I'm sure you have really thought about this quite a bit.
You used more than 8 times as many words and an ellipsis. However, you failed to refute his point.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:31 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
Good read. So there are 66 million OSX users, Apple sold 40 million iPads in a year and Windows 8 is a flop because it sold 40 million licenses in 5 weeks. Gotta love the logic.
Since the average selling price of Windows 8 is 25% of Windows 7 (or less), I can assure you Microsoft was expecting a significantly faster adoption rate.

Selling windows computers is becoming a losing proposition for PC makers. MS needs the surface to work well. Sales of Windows 8 are disappointing. People can pretend like they aren't, but they are simply uninformed. I have been invested in MS for about 20 years. I follow the company closely. Windows 8 and the Surface are concerning.

If they weren't completely dominating the console gaming market I would be really concerned.

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Originally Posted by 76ShovelHead View Post
Not to defend Microsoft, or hate on Apple, but I feel the same could be said for the 11.6 inch Macbook Air. $1,000 for a fancy spec-bumped netbook?

----------



Ahh you beat me to it!
It is easy to tell you have not used both a netbook and a MacBook Air. There is nothing in common at all. Not performance, resolution, design. Lets start with the obvious. Where are the $299 netbooks with SSD.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:58 AM   #281
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Too expensive. What a pity.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:21 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by malman89 View Post
A full blown laptop in tablet form?
Are you forgetting that the full blown laptop in a tablet was tried many times before the iPad and it never went anywhere? I don't see why it would be any different now. Lets face it, most software businesses need a tablet for do not need the kind of power this has and could run just fine on an iPad that is not only cheaper but also has greater battery life.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:23 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by miniroll32 View Post
Wrong. The hardware manufacturer has to pay a license for the Windows OEM; that is how Microsoft makes a lot of their profit.
That is not always true. Some even get paid by microsoft to use the system. But even if they have to pay, my reason stands, the customer is not. For them its "free" unlike a $500 iPad.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:26 AM   #284
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Amazon, Nook, Nexus, and $70 Droid tablets are the ones ripping MS apart.

I personally think most MS customers don't understand the price of quality and look for the cheapest thing on the market. AND of course a segment of Apple haters.

MS should have done another XBox plan, sell Surface below cost, take a small hit now for gains in future. Instead price high and drop later really makes them look like bad businessmen.

OH, they better drop price fast or they miss the Christmas season!
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:41 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by kalsta View Post
No, I think the concept itself is flawed. It's the forced marriage of two mostly incompatible partners—touchscreen interface and pointing device interface. The only thing Apple has missed out on by keeping the Mac and the iPad as separate devices is falling on their arse in spectacular fashion. They left it to Microsoft to do that.
Didn't you just contradict yourself?

Besides Apple has brought some overlapping design features between the two
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:54 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
It's not really a tablet in the same sense as an iPad. I'm excited about it because being able to run Photoshop at 1920x1080 on a portable, light netbook/tablet with a touchscreen digitizer is pretty damn awesome to me.

That's who the Surface Pro is aimed at. It's not a device designed around light work and entertainment. It's a fairly heavy duty machine for the size.
Ok, am I the only one aware that Win tabs have existed for over a decade? The Surface doesn't even have the coolest name, HP took that with the Slate.

I was looking forward to the Surface, but 2 major issues:
The RT doesn't have a complete Office. I'm going to check it out, maybe it's enough. But I have little confidence.
2, the Pro is a joke. 4 hours? This is why I've had zero interest in Win laptops, useless battery life. People are right. Buy an ultra book instead, MBA would be my choice. This is utter stupidity. Seriously, who does this appeal to? It's not a laptop, it's not a tablet, it's not going to pull people from either of those markets in any volume. We've had plenty of these over many years to prove that.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:56 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by NumberNine View Post
as opposed to a $800 iPad?
Don't like Apple? Fine, how does Surface compare to an Android tablet? You can add a keyboard, mouse, download files, many more apps, etc.. If the average consumer (as they are targeting in their ads, not power-users), does any research, Surface does not compare well to either Apple, Google or even traditional Windows based net books or ultra books.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 09:12 AM   #288
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I think I am more interested in the Windows 8 device offerings from Dell, HP and Asus. The Dell XPS 12 looks like the device to get for Windows 8.

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Old Nov 30, 2012, 09:15 AM   #289
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The 4.5 hour battery life wouldn't be so bad if Apple hadn't miraculously squeezed 10 hours out some years go and forced everyone else to up their game. MS missed that tidbit of information when building the new machine.

Samsung - look at Apple's new wave products and seek to match them in every way.

Microsoft - look at Apple's new wave of products, decide what would be better, develop some specs and develop the product with an inward perspective on how great MS is and we shouldn't do the same as Apple but something different, something that will be better. (Different doesn't always equal better)

At some point MS voters are going to realise Emperor Steve Ballmer is wearing no clothes.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 09:21 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by NAG View Post
Because the logic is flawed. Does anyone else who says that Apple tells you the iPad is for content consumption remember the iWork demo that took up a huge chunk of time during the iPad reveal? Granted, iWork for iOS needs a lot of work (Pages is approaching usable) but it still shows that Apple doesn't intend the iPad to be consumption only.
Hell, the 'iOS is only for content consumption' argument died a fiery death way back in May 2009 or so when the cover of a New Yorker magazine was created on the iPhone. How people have managed to keep that claim on life-support since then, despite a rash of counter-examples is beyond me.

No, the iPad (or any tablet for that matter) isn't ideal for every type of content creation, but neither is a traditional desktop or laptop. Getting the job done is all about choosing the proper tool for the job, rather than insisting on using the same tool regardless of whether it works well for the job you're trying to do.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 09:25 AM   #291
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Steve Ballmer is no visionary.

Pity really because if he had vision he'd realise he should step down.


This doesn't bode well for Steve Ballmer's autobiography.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 09:45 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by miniroll32 View Post
Wrong. The hardware manufacturer has to pay a license for the Windows OEM; that is how Microsoft makes a lot of their profit.
Yep. At last count, Microsoft makes about 80% of their Windows revenue from OEM sales, which go for about 20% of the retail price of Windows. Of course, that also shows how many people are actually making the conscious decision to buy a new version of Windows. (It's roughly 20 OEM sales to 1 retail sale.)
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 09:48 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Chlloret View Post
Sorry, bad comparison. Apple might have sold 40 Million iPads, but they got money for it, people actually paid for it.

Windows 8 can be downloaded for free to test and is for free on any new machine you buy. That is not "selling" anything.
That is on how many computers it is running atm. For how long it is running will be a complete other matter.
40 million licenses SOLD

That's not a number of how many people are running Windows 8. It's the number of licenses sold either to OEMs or end users. In other words, MS made a sale. They're not counting machines currently running it alone.

Quote:
Btw, same for Win7, a OS that actually works, is or was on any computer sold. That is not meaning, MS sold the system, it is included for the customer without him making the choice to buy it.
Yeah, and the OEMs pay for the license, which is included in the price of the machine when you buy it. What's your point? They still made a sale.

Quote:
More interesting would be the number of downgrades performed or if windows7 sales are now off because everybody wants Windows8. What about the majority of Windows machines that still run Win xp?
It will be interesting to see if the backlash against 8 is as strong as it was with Vista. I kinda doubt it will, because having a weird start screen is about the only issue most people have (and over exaggerate) about it. Vista was put on machines barely capable of running it and had poor driver support when it first showed up. On the flip side, Win8 runs faster than 7 on the same hardware, and is just as stable and solid as 7 was. Really, about the worst thing about 8 is MS changed too much, and didn't offer up a good tutorial to compensate for those changes. Whether that will translate to mass downgrading remains to be seen.

And XP is no longer the majority Windows OS out at the moment. 7 past it sometime last year.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:04 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post

That's not a number of how many people are running Windows 8.

Yeah, and the OEMs pay for the license, which is included in the price of the machine when you buy it. What's your point? They still made a sale.
oh dear, that would be much worse then. If its the number of users, that would mean that 40 Million are using it, quite a number. If its the sales or commitement for buying with OEMs it means nothing, just that Microsoft can put 40Mio times $12 into the books for computers that might be sold sometime, or not. Of course, the majority of computers sold with Win8 have a free downgrade voucher for Win7, something that is used extensivly by people I know whos new Laptops and Ultrabooks came with Win8.
Maybe thats why its difficould to see a Windows8 machine in the wild, outside a store.
One of the 40Mio iPads are easy to spot, everywhere.But those are real sales.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:06 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Mystic386 View Post
Steve Ballmer is no visionary.

Pity really because if he had vision he'd realise he should step down.


This doesn't bode well for Steve Ballmer's autobiography.
Steve Ballmer is just a face at Microsoft. He is only CEO because he was there from the beginning. There are plenty of talented visionaries that work at Microsoft and obviously the executives aren't afraid of holding them back and testing the waters. Why else would Microsoft be releasing another major piece of hardware (along with Xbox)?

I don't know why people think that Steve Ballmer single-handedly runs Microsoft. That is just foolish.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chlloret View Post
Maybe thats why its difficould to see a Windows8 machine in the wild, outside a store.
One of the 40Mio iPads are easy to spot, everywhere.But those are real sales.
Maybe it is because Windows 8 and Windows 8 touchscreen devices have been out for 1 month. iPads have been out for years.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:11 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by VenusianSky View Post

I don't know why people think that Steve Ballmer single-handedly runs Microsoft. That is just foolish.
Thats true, you need two hands already to throw your (Office13) -furniture around........

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VenusianSky View Post

Maybe it is because Windows 8 and Windows 8 touchscreen devices have been out for 1 month. iPads have been out for years.
No, 40Million is 40Million, they do not need years to pop up somewhere, its not like they are concentrated somewhere and go places.

There are never 40Million Win8 Systems around right now.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:11 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Chlloret View Post
oh dear, that would be much worse then. If its the number of users, that would mean that 40 Million are using it, quite a number. If its the sales or commitement for buying with OEMs it means nothing, just that Microsoft can put 40Mio times $12 into the books for computers that might be sold sometime, or not. Of course, the majority of computers sold with Win8 have a free downgrade voucher for Win7, something that is used extensivly by people I know whos new Laptops and Ultrabooks came with Win8.
Maybe thats why its difficould to see a Windows8 machine in the wild, outside a store.
One of the 40Mio iPads are easy to spot, everywhere.But those are real sales.
Where are you getting this $12 per license from? That's the new-computer-bought-in-the-last-month upgrade price. OEMs pay, I think, $100 per license.

And has the downgrade offer been used...extensively? Most new hardware sold with Windows 8 comes with touchscreen support, where Win8 shines. Most people that use it on touchscreen hardware tend to prefer it. It's the kb/m people who don't like the new start menu.

No, Windows 8 isn't setting the world on fire. I've even said it's not the most necessary upgrade around. But it's also not an abject failure likely to put MS out of business in the next three weeks like some of you are trying to spin it around here.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:17 AM   #298
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You guarantee it? Excellent. Please demonstrate that this is the case, otherwise I demand a refund or at least some replacement information of equal value.
Refund for 1 Internet Opinion = 1 Vietnamese Dong or 10 Albanian Lek.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:28 AM   #299
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Where are you getting this $12 per license from? That's the new-computer-bought-in-the-last-month upgrade price. OEMs pay, I think, $100 per license.

And has the downgrade offer been used...extensively? Most new hardware sold with Windows 8 comes with touchscreen support, where Win8 shines. Most people that use it on touchscreen hardware tend to prefer it. It's the kb/m people who don't like the new start menu.

No, Windows 8 isn't setting the world on fire. I've even said it's not the most necessary upgrade around. But it's also not an abject failure likely to put MS out of business in the next three weeks like some of you are trying to spin it around here.
$100 a license? Are you joking? The most expensive license (ultimate) for 7 was $49 if you bought upwords of 500000, Windows 8 costs a fraction. $12 is high, at or below the 100000 comitement
What the downgrade is concerned, I can only say what I know and saw, I seen many computer purchases (comercial, companies, thousands at the time) that until recently got the free upgrade for Windows8 cupon (never redeemed) and for the last month get the free downgrade (except for test machines always used) heck, even the two new Zen books a friend bought got downgraded. Right in the store.
Most hardware got touchscreens? Where do you get that from? Most hardware is in the $499 Laptop region, touch is the mousepad, thats it.
The computer systems bought are $299 or $399 Desktop machines, conected to existing monitors, no touch anywhere.

Would you like to stretch all day over your desk to operate your 27" touchscreen? What kind of work is that? A workout?

No, Windows8 surely is not setting anything on fire. Once you got rid of Metro and configured everything back to normal, you notice that you got a Win7 without Aero. So? Why bother?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:45 AM   #300
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If it wasn't for my hands-on experience at a MSFT booth the other day, I would probably making the same comments as a lot of the rest of you.

It was a 32GB version, so I guess it was running WinRT, but you would never know or care. It worked just like my friend's Windows 8 laptop she just bought. After using touch, mouse, and gestures all on one device (both on the laptop and Surface) I was surprised to come back to my Macbook Air feeling like I used to feel coming back to my old Dell after going to the Apple store to check out their latest machines - like something was missing from my machine. And I would consider myself more of an Apple fanboi than MSFT.

The only things that really keep me on the fence are Airplay, my questions about build quality, and my fear that Windows 8 will be like every other version of Windows in that it will be a little slow and not be quite as reliable as OSX. And I guess I'll add to that a little worry that Microsoft will just abandon it like they did the Zune (which could have been more competitive).

My impressions with it were very favorable, though. The little type pad took a little getting used to but it was better than touch typing on an iPad or Android device. It even had an touch pad where you point with a mouse and two-finger scroll. I found myself thinking of it as a full laptop a lot of time.

I also liked that it had a USB, HDMI, and expandable memory.
I understand your point of view, but how long did you actually use it?

After navigating Windows 8 for more than 15 minutes at that angle, my wrist feels like it's being sawn off with a butter knife.
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