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Old Nov 15, 2012, 04:34 PM   #1
Dmunjal
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Farewell Ron Paul

Something both liberals and conservatives can find in common.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...on-has-failed/

I still believe liberty and a return to our constitutional ideals is the only way to save this country from default. Neither the Democratic or Republican party is interested in this as they are tied to their respective lobbies.

The Tea Party started out this way before it was co-opted by the Republican party to include social conservatism and military activism which made it extreme to most of the country.

The Progressives can find a lot of good ideas in his message around social tolerance and minimizing our military aggression across the globe.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 04:36 PM   #2
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Something both liberals and conservatives can find in common.
That we're glad to see the back of him?
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 04:45 PM   #3
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Anyone who wants to remove child labor laws and minimum wage needs to go in this day and age.

unregulated free market is not what we need, and this man is insane for thinking so.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 04:48 PM   #4
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Ron Paul is the only person in government who's accurately predicted the future...and yet the media consistently labels him a nut job. It's sad to see him go...and I hope more politicians start to seriously consider the values of Dr. Paul, for everyone's sake.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:00 PM   #5
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Anyone who wants to remove child labor laws and minimum wage needs to go in this day and age.

unregulated free market is not what we need, and this man is insane for thinking so.
His argument was that minimum wages hurt minority workers...not sure if that is true or not. But I think we could also call Obama insane for his signing of the NDAA, which is arguably more repressive towards civil liberties than the PATRIOT Act (which is pretty hard to do) and we could surely call Bush insane for his involvement in two wars...or we could call both insane with their wartime ethical records.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:01 PM   #6
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Ron Paul is the only person in government who's accurately predicted the future...and yet the media consistently labels him a nut job. It's sad to see him go...and I hope more politicians start to seriously consider the values of Dr. Paul, for everyone's sake.
His values are "youre on your own". This is America. Look at how we come together after disasters. The two are not compatible.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:03 PM   #7
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His values are "youre on your own". This is America. Look at how we come together after disasters. The two are not compatible.
That is much too much of a simplification of what he stands for.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:04 PM   #8
NT1440
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That is much too much of a simplification of what he stands for.
I've found that regardless of the great speeches he gives, when he's given a simple question, thats the gist of it. No federal government? You're on your own.

It really is that simple.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:07 PM   #9
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I've found that regardless of the great speeches he gives, when he's given a simple question, thats the gist of it. No federal government? You're on your own.

It really is that simple.
No, it really isn't. I am not going to debate what he stands for but as someone who largely supports Ron Paul, I can tell you there is much more to it than "you are on your own"

Generalizations and gross simplifications are never accurate. You should know this.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:10 PM   #10
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His values are "youre on your own". This is America. Look at how we come together after disasters. The two are not compatible.
Thats a gross overgeneralization. I'm not saying everything the man has said is correct, but a lot of it has. His reliance on state government is heavy, and I think he has underestimated the need for a central bureaucracy (the feds), but a lot of what he says has tremendous value and is flat out ignored.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 07:18 PM   #11
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He's a man of principles, like none other, and he makes a lot of excellent points. But his concept for society is appropriate for the 18th century and trading some fur for a barrel of fish. Not for 2012 when people can make or lose billions with a few mouse clicks. It all works in the SimCity in his head, but in the real world... all hail Emperor Donald Trump, supreme ruler of Zombie Apocalypse Empire, where a glass of water costs five slaves or 50 ounces of gold, but speedballs are free.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 10:15 PM   #12
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And so we ignore everything he says and make him out to be a nutjob?

His insight is clearly valuable and has been largely written off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 10:39 PM   #13
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I've found that regardless of the great speeches he gives, when he's given a simple question, thats the gist of it. No federal government? You're on your own.

It really is that simple.
I agree. It is that simple. Dr. Paul's vision discounts reality. His ideas may work in a vacuum, but in the real world, society cannot be left unattended. People need cohesion. They need each other.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 10:59 PM   #14
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He's a man of principles, like none other, and he makes a lot of excellent points. But his concept for society is appropriate for the 18th century and trading some fur for a barrel of fish. Not for 2012 when people can make or lose billions with a few mouse clicks. It all works in the SimCity in his head, but in the real world... all hail Emperor Donald Trump, supreme ruler of Zombie Apocalypse Empire, where a glass of water costs five slaves or 50 ounces of gold, but speedballs are free.
hyperbole

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I agree. It is that simple. Dr. Paul's vision discounts reality. His ideas may work in a vacuum, but in the real world, society cannot be left unattended. People need cohesion. They need each other.
Alright, so what ideas don't work in the real world and why?

Bonus question, if people need cohesion and they need each other, is government the only way that they can interact in that capacity, and if so, is forcing people to interact this way morally acceptable if they don't all fundamentally agree with being forced?

*edit*

Sitting here watching CNN. Government isn't providing enough aid, so volunteers are donating their time and money. Headline: "Relying on neighbors, not the government". Now I'm not saying the government isn't doing their job or anything like that, but it's fun to poke holes in your comment.

Last edited by eric/; Nov 15, 2012 at 11:24 PM.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 11:01 PM   #15
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I kinda wanted to see Ron succeed. Oh well.

Love him or loathe him, you have to admit, he is a man who never flip flops on his ideals and he is one of the few brutally honest politicians out there
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 11:14 PM   #16
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I just don't get it. What is weird or crazy about what Ron Paul has said through the years? While I am nor a republican nor a Democrat and never voted for Ron Paul, I can clearly see that he has been the only consistent member of Congress. He has been warning us for over 20 years, and his warnings are now a reality. Don't want to watch the video? Then read the text below:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4161883
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 12:12 AM   #17
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hyperbole

----------



Alright, so what ideas don't work in the real world and why?

Bonus question, if people need cohesion and they need each other, is government the only way that they can interact in that capacity, and if so, is forcing people to interact this way morally acceptable if they don't all fundamentally agree with being forced?

*edit*

Sitting here watching CNN. Government isn't providing enough aid, so volunteers are donating their time and money. Headline: "Relying on neighbors, not the government". Now I'm not saying the government isn't doing their job or anything like that, but it's fun to poke holes in your comment.
Most of his ideas don't work, which is why he admittedly accomplished very little in his many years in Congress. People aren't ignoring his solutions because they don't like him, they ignore them because they don't work. They don't scale well to a nation with hundreds of millions of people of varying degrees of capabilities. Good on paper? OK. But acted upon, is a different thing altogether. He wants to be abolish the Fed and the IRS. Sounds great for the moment, but what happens in a decade or two? He never had the answers because there weren't any.

And I'm not sure what holes you think you're poking talking about people volunteering. The government's not as big as you give it credit. Neighbors have always relied on neighbors. You're not paying that much in tax.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 12:35 AM   #18
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I appreciate a politician who isn't afraid to stand for what he seriously believes is right. Of course, when you're a conservative in a state like Texas, that makes it easier, but still. If he wasn't nutty on a couple issues, I would probably vote for him if he wasn't in my district.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 01:42 AM   #19
jnpy!$4g3cwk
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I just don't get it. What is weird or crazy about what Ron Paul has said through the years?
Here is a start. A small selection from Ron Paul's newsletters:

Quote:
Controversial statements

Several articles in these newsletters contained controversial statements that have been criticized as racist or homophobic, such as, "Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."[2][3][4][5] A Democratic consultant in Texas noted that in 1996, the "Ron Paul Political Report" was listed in an online Neo-Nazi directory, though he found focus groups with local voters didn't seem to have a problem with that.[6]

A column on carjacking ended "even in my little town of Lake Jackson, Texas, I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming."[7][8] A third article declared that "opinion polls consistently show only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions".

An article titled "The Pink House" said "I miss the closet. Homosexuals, not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities."[9][10][11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul_newsletters


Quote:
While I am nor a republican nor a Democrat and never voted for Ron Paul, I can clearly see that he has been the only consistent member of Congress. He has been warning us for over 20 years, and his warnings are now a reality. Don't want to watch the video? Then read the text below:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4161883
I appreciate Ron Paul's willingness to stand up for civil liberties, especially during wartime when so few are, but, the sad fact is that there was quite a track record of racism in his publications.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:20 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
Here is a start. A small selection from Ron Paul's newsletters:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul_newsletters




I appreciate Ron Paul's willingness to stand up for civil liberties, especially during wartime when so few are, but, the sad fact is that there was quite a track record of racism in his publications.
At the same time, a lot of the anti-drug movement and current drug laws, he believed were quite racist and a serious issue, using statistics such as the number of black people in prisons vs. the number of white people in prisons for drug offenses, although the number of users for each race aren't different.

I don't think he is racist.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 04:14 AM   #21
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Farewell? I don't think so. He's a real America.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 06:36 AM   #22
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Alright, so what ideas don't work in the real world and why?
You can't just flick a switch NOW and go all-in with libertarianism when allocation of assets and resources are a result of a completely different dynamic that's been in place for centuries. What are you gonna do with those in the military industrial complex who became billionaires as government contractors, are you gonna confiscate their assets arguing that in Ron Paul's alternate universe those purchases would never have taken place? And give the money to people who in his universe would've been filthy rich by now if it hasn't been for that pesky government stealing from them? You'd have to hit the reset button first and let everyone start from scratch with an equal share, but that would be, you know, the most massive redistribution of wealth in human history.
It's so convenient, isn't it, to advocate a utopian ideology that hasn't been subjected to a real world test for aeons, if ever. All others have, always with some degree of failure, but libertarianism never failed (because it remains a pipe dream) and this is of course irrefutable evidence of its supremacy.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 08:11 AM   #23
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You can't just flick a switch NOW and go all-in with libertarianism when allocation of assets and resources are a result of a completely different dynamic that's been in place for centuries. What are you gonna do with those in the military industrial complex who became billionaires as government contractors, are you gonna confiscate their assets arguing that in Ron Paul's alternate universe those purchases would never have taken place? And give the money to people who in his universe would've been filthy rich by now if it hasn't been for that pesky government stealing from them? You'd have to hit the reset button first and let everyone start from scratch with an equal share, but that would be, you know, the most massive redistribution of wealth in human history.
It's so convenient, isn't it, to advocate a utopian ideology that hasn't been subjected to a real world test for aeons, if ever. All others have, always with some degree of failure, but libertarianism never failed (because it remains a pipe dream) and this is of course irrefutable evidence of its supremacy.
I literally have no idea what you are talking about, other than just stating your dislike of libertarianism. You haven't stated any actual points or brought up anything specific.

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Most of his ideas don't work, which is why he admittedly accomplished very little in his many years in Congress.
Which ideas don't work and why? And you're disconnected here. He hasn't accomplished much in Congress not because his ideas do or do not work, it's just that the other members of Congress don't like them. (Except auditing the FED, I think that got passed).

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People aren't ignoring his solutions because they don't like him, they ignore them because they don't work.
Well they actually ignore them because of many various reasons. For example, republicans ignore the ones legalizing marijuana or gay marriage. Democrats ignore the ones which reduce the role of government.

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Originally Posted by Tilpots View Post
They don't scale well to a nation with hundreds of millions of people of varying degrees of capabilities. Good on paper? OK. But acted upon, is a different thing altogether.
Which ideas don't scale and why?

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Originally Posted by Tilpots View Post
He wants to be abolish the Fed and the IRS. Sounds great for the moment, but what happens in a decade or two? He never had the answers because there weren't any.
Apparently you aren't familiar with this discussion, or what Ron Paul had actually said.

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Originally Posted by Tilpots View Post
And I'm not sure what holes you think you're poking talking about people volunteering. The government's not as big as you give it credit. Neighbors have always relied on neighbors.
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Originally Posted by Tilpots View Post
but in the real world, society cannot be left unattended. People need cohesion. They need each other.
Is this statement not saying that society can't take care of itself, thus government?

Also, you never provided a response to my question.

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You're not paying that much in tax.
True, unfortunately the tax dollars I do pay are mostly wasted.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 12:27 PM   #24
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Goodbye and good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on your pompous, egotistical, delusional ass. And can you please take your insane son with you, Ron Paul?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 12:57 PM   #25
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Ron Paul is a true believer in a radical and pure political ideology that would destroy our country. I agree with several things he advocates, but he's a kook on so many other things that his brand of libertarianism is a joke.

I'd love for a reasonable, modern thinking libertarian to come forward and help the party get rid of these "no-government," "you're on your own" kooks so that the rest of us would have a reasonable alternative to the two party system.
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