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Old Dec 3, 2012, 10:39 AM   #26
ctdonath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mslide View Post
It's 2012. SSD are cheap enough. They should come standard on all Macs, with more expensive options being larger SSDs and fusion.
1TB is a minimum starting point for a desktop.
A 1TB SSD will cost >10x a 1TB HD.
As a compromise, offers a hybrid for about 3x.

Comparing a 64GB SSD as a viable option for a desktop storage is silly.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 10:48 AM   #27
vannibombonato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post

Stuff like this puts me off the apple brand as a whole. It's absurd.
They want you to spend more and get a 27, it's not absurd, it makes sense.

If they won't sell enough in the future they'll change strategy and maybe lower the pricing.

In the meantime don't buy it, it's the best thing you can do to make things change. Enjoy your PC, remember that if you'll buy a Mac you validate their strategy.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:23 AM   #28
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I know it's frowned upon these parts, but Apple takes my money in laptops and iDevices, but when it comes to their un upgradable and overpriced desktops, I go the hackintosh route. Typing this on a hackintosh running ML with 3770K CPU running at 4.5 ghz, 256gb Samsung 830 ssd, 32 gb ram, GeForce gtx 670 for about the same price as an entry level iMac.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:42 AM   #29
ctdonath
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Originally Posted by magbarn View Post
when it comes to their un upgradable and overpriced desktops, I go the hackintosh route.
How many hours did you put into building & maintaining it?
What is your time worth in dollars per hour?

$1000 / $60/hr = 17 hours.
I'd rather spend the extra thousand bucks and spend the time saved writing software.

To each their own. If "hackintosh" works for you, great. For others, not so much. Respect.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:48 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Guess I'll be waiting at least another 500 days (probably longer) before I order an iMac. How completely absurd that apple forces you to pay $1749 for an SSD option. How do the people running this company look themselves in the mirror with these cartoonish decisions?

Stuff like this puts me off the apple brand as a whole. It's absurd.
Agreed. It is dumb, however, this is how Apple has handled their entry-level iMacs for the last four revs. The entry level iMac seldom has storage upgrades. Hell, we're lucky it even has the RAM upgrade option. To be fair, it makes sense, for other reasons to also go with a higher-end 21.5" iMac for other reasons on top of this one.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:55 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Guess I'll be waiting at least another 500 days (probably longer) before I order an iMac.
If you can wait you didn't need one in the first place. So why are you upset? Apple's M.O. is always to offer fewer options on the entry level. It's not much different than car companies that do the same... put certain options and colors in certain packages. It's called modern marketing.

Or take the $250 you would have spent on Fusion and buy a SSD and put it in a USB 3.0 enclosure. Or buy a Thunderbolt drive.

I bought the low end and use 3.5" (7200rpm) ext drives in USB 3.0 enclosures. Good enough, especially if you only need entry level performance, and better than the internal 2.5" 5400 drive for sure.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
I'll repeat myself. If a consumer wants an imac with an ssd, they are FORCED to pay $1749. That is the cheapest option for an imac with an ssd. Point blank. There is no other way to get one from apple.

I bought a 2012 mini and went Dell for the display, instead of getting the 2012 iMac. I've ALWAYS updated all my apples over the years - from OMP to MP+, eMac I upgraded by soldering CPU resistors, my older iMacs have had new hybridHDD's. I worked out that I'd eventually like a hybrid in my 2012 computer so I sidegraded to a basic mini, where Fusion is also not available, but it's feasible for me to do a DIY version in the near future - when I feel like it.

I didn't pay $1749, I paid around $900 Apple edu & Dell & ram - my DIY Fusion will be based on adding a Samsung 830 for around $120.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:31 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by cyclotron451 View Post
I bought a 2012 mini and went Dell for the display, instead of getting the 2012 iMac. I've ALWAYS updated all my apples over the years - from OMP to MP+, eMac I upgraded by soldering CPU resistors, my older iMacs have had new hybridHDD's. I worked out that I'd eventually like a hybrid in my 2012 computer so I sidegraded to a basic mini, where Fusion is also not available, but it's feasible for me to do a DIY version in the near future - when I feel like it.

I didn't pay $1749, I paid around $900 Apple edu & Dell & ram - my DIY Fusion will be based on adding a Samsung 830 for around $120.
Gonna do the same... imac 2012 was planned to be my third iMac, but Apple greed killed the plan, I am not going to pay 450 dollars more (actualy, much more here in Europe) to get 128 SSD...
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:36 PM   #34
magbarn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdonath View Post
How many hours did you put into building & maintaining it?
What is your time worth in dollars per hour?

$1000 / $60/hr = 17 hours.
I'd rather spend the extra thousand bucks and spend the time saved writing software.

To each their own. If "hackintosh" works for you, great. For others, not so much. Respect.
With the current tools out now, the days of hacking drivers are over just as long as you stick to tried and true components, plus there's still hobbyists among us who don't mind getting into our computers. I'd rather spend 4 hours tinkering with my computer than 1 hour at the office.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:37 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclotron451 View Post
I bought a 2012 mini and went Dell for the display, instead of getting the 2012 iMac. I've ALWAYS updated all my apples over the years - from OMP to MP+, eMac I upgraded by soldering CPU resistors, my older iMacs have had new hybridHDD's. I worked out that I'd eventually like a hybrid in my 2012 computer so I sidegraded to a basic mini, where Fusion is also not available, but it's feasible for me to do a DIY version in the near future - when I feel like it.

I didn't pay $1749, I paid around $900 Apple edu & Dell & ram - my DIY Fusion will be based on adding a Samsung 830 for around $120.
Sounds like a good solution that should meet your needs.

If I wanted a standalone display, I'd take a serious look at the Dell myself. If/when Apple updates their thunderbolt display with the new bonded assembly, AR coating, and an updated I/O hub with USB 3.0, it will be harder for me to consider the Dell display.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:57 PM   #36
tuccillo
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The fusion drive pricing is, in concept, about the same as the memory upgrade pricing. Apple charges $200 for an 8 to 16 GB upgrade. There is approximately $160 worth of pure profit when you do the upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Guess I'll be waiting at least another 500 days (probably longer) before I order an iMac. How completely absurd that apple forces you to pay $1749 for an SSD option. How do the people running this company look themselves in the mirror with these cartoonish decisions?

Stuff like this puts me off the apple brand as a whole. It's absurd.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:59 PM   #37
mokeiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Guess I'll be waiting at least another 500 days (probably longer) before I order an iMac. How completely absurd that apple forces you to pay $1749 for an SSD option. How do the people running this company look themselves in the mirror with these cartoonish decisions?

Stuff like this puts me off the apple brand as a whole. It's absurd.
Nobody forces you to buy anything. You have a choice with your wallet.

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Old Dec 3, 2012, 01:08 PM   #38
Spungoflex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdonath View Post
Your whining is completely ludicrous.

An $80 SSD is what, 64GB? That's not even enough to run a MB Air on now. You want one in your 21" iMac? taking up an entire mass-storage bay?
Huh? I got my crucial M4 128gb for $80 shipped. It doesn't cost apple anywhere close to that to include their samsung drives in the imac because they don't pay retail. And none of this has anything to do with my actual complaint... which is that apple doesn't even give you the opportunity to massively overpay for their SSD. They gimped the hard drive on the imac and will not allow you to get a decent one unless you go insane and pony up $1800.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdonath View Post
You are comparing a no-name DIY to a flagship Apple AIO. Really?
The funny thing is that the no-name DIY with a SSD blows the imac and it's 5400 rpm drive out of the water.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 01:16 PM   #39
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Don't buy it? Wait and buy refurb? Add your own?
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 01:21 PM   #40
ericbreiter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
You are comparing a SSD drive that can be bought for $80 to a Bentley. Really? Are you sure you wanna go there?
I believe he is already there and he is asking you to join him and hold hands.

An Apple computer and a Bentley may not be the same thing, but the same principle apply. Among computers, an iMac is a luxury item and hence it would be foolish not to price options accordingly. Apple is still the only computer manufacturer on the planet who provides a superb blend of hardware, design and operating system. There are enough people willing to pay what Apple are asking. They're not idiots - there is a conscious decision behind the SSD pricing and as a company they will get by without you buying an iMac.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 01:30 PM   #41
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Apple will have some finance gurus that have 100% calculated the entire thing until the last possibility and this is what they came up with.

The prices are expensive, the weird upgrade options are to maximize revenue and not to please the cheapos that don't want to go or a 27" or the ones who want a 128GB SSD. You want a SSd, pay US $ 1300.00 for the 768GB.

As sad as it is.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 02:01 PM   #42
vladfein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdonath View Post
The iMac, being an AIO design, understandably has space for just one storage unit.
Understandably? UNDERSTANDABLY???
Although AIO, it is still a desktop. How much space does the SSD require? 7mm?
Well, 7 is greater than 5, I too understand...

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsoletepower View Post
You have to understand that you pay a premium for Apple products just like you would pay a premium if you bought a Bentley.
If you like car analogy, this SSD situation has nothing to do with Bentley.
It is more like comparing any car's options with after-market add-ons.
Consider GPS Navigator: the option might be $2,000, while you can get a perfectly fine navigator for $200. Of course, you'd need to use a double-sided tape, just like while upgrading iMac...
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 02:10 PM   #43
hfg
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And yet ... they continue to be independently rated #1 in customer satisfaction ... ... interesting.



http://bgr.com/2012/09/18/apple-comp...p-acsi-survey/

Last edited by stridemat; Dec 3, 2012 at 03:54 PM. Reason: cleanup
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 02:23 PM   #44
ctdonath
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Originally Posted by vladfein View Post
How much space does the SSD require? 7mm?
Why budget the space on ten million machines when most of them won't use it?

And when you tack on all the other upgrade space & cost for additional components (usual slate of demands for upgradable CPU, GPU, RAM, etc. which 99% of users will never do), that's a lot of wasted volume & money for most customers.

It's an AIO design. Most users need only a certain range of options, with little or no upgradability.
iMac is not for you. You don't trump millions of other users.
If you want the additional 7mm + connectors & covers for installing your own SSD, plus more for other components you may or may not upgrade, go to Fry's and have a blast assembling whatever you want and cutting whatever corners you see fit.
Some of us want to order one slim unit which does what we want, efficiently and elegantly, with nothing sacrificed to empty "but I _might_ want to..." demands. The iMac fits that role nicely.
Having had desktop computers since the original IBM PC, I'm content not wanting an additional 7mm wasted because 1% of customers _might_ want to install another storage device.
iMac is not for you. The beauty of capitalism is that someone, somewhere, is making the machine you want - or you can fill your niche and profit accordingly. Go hither and find a computer which satisfies you; I assure you iMac isn't it, so stop demanding rocks become bread for your satiation.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:00 PM   #45
pyzon
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I don't see why Apple will give you the future when you are quite prepared to pay for the present now...all Computers should come with SSD's imo, unfortunately - its all about the money...and while we have 101 threads and forums doing a countdown to when people are going to order an iMac, then 101 threads and forums about delivery dates, then 101 forums about how great the damn thing is..etc..etc...Apple will give you what they have from the 'present' bucket and make you pay for 'future' upgrades...when you are actually right they should be shipping all with SSDs on desktop computers, keep the spinning disks for their servers. YOU created this monster, not Apple...
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:04 PM   #46
philipma1957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Guess I'll be waiting at least another 500 days (probably longer) before I order an iMac. How completely absurd that apple forces you to pay $1749 for an SSD option. How do the people running this company look themselves in the mirror with these cartoonish decisions?

Stuff like this puts me off the apple brand as a whole. It's absurd.
WHILE I AGREE WITH YOU EMOTIONALLY>

The fact is Apple is beating the tar out of everyone in the computer business. So they won't change their methods and become 'nice'

Here is the deal if you want a good iMac buy the 21 inch model with the better cpu yeah it is 1700 bucks add on an external t-bolt booted like this lacie 250gb ssd


http://www.amazon.com/9000352-Rugged...ed+thunderbolt


compare this around it is 2.1 k but show me a better all-in-one. now understand to be better it would need to be a 21 inch 1080p not a 24 inch 1080p or it would need to be a 27 inch 1440p

show me one with a 256gb booter and a 1tb hdd and 8gb ram that equals or exceeds the machine I list.


now go to the 27 inch get that lacie booted for 350 and build the 27 inch with the best cpu and best gpu it lists for 2349 add the lacie it is 2700

show me a 1440p with that cpu that gpu 8gb ram easy to upgrade to 32gb or 20gb . once again as an all in one it is not out there. that is why apple charges these prices.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:11 PM   #47
FuriousGreg
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I going to offer another point of view for the OP to consider:

The "Base" model iMac is actually the 21.5-inch: 2.9GHz and the 2.7GHz is a low-end stripped down consumer version. The tear-down showed that the necessary hardware for a Fusion Drive is not in the 2.7GHz model which allowed Apple to price it $200/$450 less.

A Pro-sumer like the OP who would want the Fusion Drive is not really paying a premium (well $250 is a lot for a 128 SSD so a little premium), rather the average low end consumer is getting a deal by not offering hardware that they really don't need.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:24 PM   #48
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If you'd like another analogy.. you can't buy HBO with just Basic Broadcast Cable. You need to upgrade to the next tier before you're allowed to do a la carte options. Entry level is entry level for a reason.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:34 PM   #49
ctdonath
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Originally Posted by FuriousGreg View Post
The tear-down showed that the necessary hardware for a Fusion Drive is not in the 2.7GHz model which allowed Apple to price it $200/$450 less.
Bingo. Just what I was getting at, if not as clear.
There just ain't the parts therein to support the $250 Fusion upgrade.
The $1500 model is the real baseline; the $1300 model is that minus everything making it upgradable at all.

And, of course, pricing structure is sensibly designed to tempt you with "well, you're spending well over a thousand dollars, for a couple hundred bucks more you get..."
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:37 PM   #50
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