Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Notebooks > MacBook Pro

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Dec 2, 2012, 02:58 AM   #1
RiseDarthVader
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
RMBP has lots of page outs even with 16GBs of RAM

So I've got 16GBs of RAM in my MacBook Pro with retina display so how come it's still paging out when I'm doing video editing in FCP or using other "pro" applications?
http://imgur.com/a/hAzVl
I've included screenshots that show I've got over 10GBs of inactive RAM so why isn't that being utilised?
RiseDarthVader is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:08 AM   #2
iBookG4user
macrumors 604
 
iBookG4user's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Send a message via MSN to iBookG4user
Did you close any apps before taking the screenshot? The page outs are cumulative, so they didn't necessarily happen recently, they could've happened any time since you last restarted your computer. If you have applications open that have used large amounts of RAM, it'll keep that RAM inactive in case it needs it again. If you quit the apps that hold the inactive RAM it'll release the RAM into free memory.
__________________
*Super high tech stuff goes here*
iBookG4user is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:12 AM   #3
JellyFish
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Try opening the terminal window (in Utilities) and then type in "purge" (without the quotes), then hit enter. That will free up memory.
JellyFish is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:20 AM   #4
thekev
macrumors 603
 
thekev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Lion and Mountain Lion suck at memory management. Inactive memory should be freed up, but this doesn't always seem to happen. I liked Snow Leopard better. Unfortunately it won't gain support for any new hardware features.
__________________
world's largest manufacturer of tin foil hats, none of that aluminum foil crap.
thekev is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:58 AM   #5
esskay
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBookG4user View Post
Did you close any apps before taking the screenshot? The page outs are cumulative, so they didn't necessarily happen recently, they could've happened any time since you last restarted your computer. If you have applications open that have used large amounts of RAM, it'll keep that RAM inactive in case it needs it again. If you quit the apps that hold the inactive RAM it'll release the RAM into free memory.
I kinda freaked out before realizing that page outs were cumulative... I checked my Activity Monitor and had a couple GBs of it and couldn't figure out why! lol
esskay is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 06:29 AM   #6
dusk007
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
A very simple rule is that if page outs aren't significantly higher than the swap used, they really don't matter. Whatever data it is, it was store away for a while and there is no need for it.

Page outs are a problem if they are a multiple of swap used or in case the system has been running a long time the ratio between page outs vs page ins. Because if it means data has been paged back in and out again and again. That slows down performance. If it is only swaped out once and never back it is probably just uselessly allocated space that has little to no use. It is more fixing bad memory behavior from applications than anything else.
If out/in is 10% or lower there is no need for any more RAM. Some used to say only at 20% and higher more RAM starts being justified. There will always be a little of swap and paging unless you have almost double the memory that you actually need. With an SSD you need even less RAM because paging in is so fast that most people never notice. It is one thing to run out of RAM with one very memory heavy app. It is another if you just have lots of apps running but most in the background. An app on the third space can be swapped back in almost the time it takes to switch to it (from an SSD). The same is with tabs in a browser. You have 40 open but not all need to be in RAM as swapping from an SSD is not much slower than the rendering itself.

The op didn't have it running too long as the page ins are relatively low. I got 166 GB page-in 12 days uptime. And 11 out with 2.5 GB swap. Perfectly enough RAM. The only page outs I have is useless data I am not using anyway which gets pushed out once the space is actually needed.
I have pushed the limits and paging that actually impacts performance looks a lot different.
dusk007 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 09:18 PM   #7
RiseDarthVader
Thread Starter
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Thanks for the help guys I've learnt a lot.
RiseDarthVader is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:58 AM   #8
jhu2
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
for some reason, on my 8 gb rmbp i had around 8gbs of page ins and 10 gbs of page outs. I don't use any pro programs, no photo editing, no vm's...

anyone have any idea as to why my machine is paging out so much? I'm pretty much just running safari, mplayer, mail, and adium.... I barely had an page outs after weeks of up time on my mid 2010 macbook pro with 4gb and im pretty much doing the same thing son my rMBP as my uMBP

Last edited by jhu2; Dec 4, 2012 at 10:14 AM.
jhu2 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 4, 2012, 10:12 AM   #9
dusk007
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Sounds like a program with a memory leak. It is similar to what some people reporting lots of modified ram use in Windows.
If that is all you are running I would guess it is Safari. If you open lots of tabs or if one has a leak in some JS code.
You'd have to print a screen of activity monitor sorted by ram use.
dusk007 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 4, 2012, 10:41 AM   #10
jhu2
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk007 View Post
Sounds like a program with a memory leak. It is similar to what some people reporting lots of modified ram use in Windows.
If that is all you are running I would guess it is Safari. If you open lots of tabs or if one has a leak in some JS code.
You'd have to print a screen of activity monitor sorted by ram use.
Yeah, I've noticed that when I quit safari, it frees up around 2-3 gigs worth of ram. I dont even have like 20-30 tabs... usually 4-5. Facebook always seems to eat away at it too.

I've switched to chrome to see if it'll help... I'll post a screenshot when it gets that bad again.
jhu2 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:16 AM   #11
snaky69
macrumors 68040
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiseDarthVader View Post
So I've got 16GBs of RAM in my MacBook Pro with retina display so how come it's still paging out when I'm doing video editing in FCP or using other "pro" applications?
http://imgur.com/a/hAzVl
I've included screenshots that show I've got over 10GBs of inactive RAM so why isn't that being utilised?
You have 10GB of Inactive RAM sitting idle and doing nothing, I don't see what the problem is?
__________________
Early 2008 MBP 2.4Ghz Penryn, 4GB RAM, WD Scorpio Black
2012 MBP 2.6Ghz Ivy Bridge, 16GB RAM, 840EVO and 750GB Opti-bay
iPhone 6, 64GB, Space Grey
snaky69 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:19 AM   #12
bill-p
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiseDarthVader View Post
So I've got 16GBs of RAM in my MacBook Pro with retina display so how come it's still paging out when I'm doing video editing in FCP or using other "pro" applications?
http://imgur.com/a/hAzVl
I've included screenshots that show I've got over 10GBs of inactive RAM so why isn't that being utilised?
If you use Safari as your browser, replace it with the latest WebKit nightly:

http://nightly.webkit.org

Current Safari in Mountain Lion has severe memory leak on Retina MacBooks (and mild memory leak on other computers) plus a lot of rendering issues that can cause bad performance. The latest nightly has fixed a number of them.
bill-p is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:22 AM   #13
throAU
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
If an application is NOT RUNNING the OS SHOULD page it out.

INACTIVE ram is used as cache, which is useful for RUNNING apps that are doing DISK ACCESS.


This is not a problem, and is how modern memory management works. By design.
__________________
MBP (early 2011) - Core i7 2720 2.2ghz, Hires Glossy, 16GB, Seagate Momentus XT 750GB
Mac Mini (mid 2007) - Core2 Duo 1.8, 2gb, 320gb 7200 rpm
iPhone 4S, iPad 4, iPad Mini, HTC One (eval)
throAU is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:27 AM   #14
bill-p
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by throAU View Post
If an application is NOT RUNNING the OS SHOULD page it out.

INACTIVE ram is used as cache, which is useful for RUNNING apps that are doing DISK ACCESS.


This is not a problem, and is how modern memory management works. By design.
Misinformed much?

Inactive is NOT cache. It's recently used memory:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1342?v...S&locale=en_US

So you're basically telling him that he just "recently used" 10GB RAM for... nothing at all.

Which app would use up all 10GB (or more) and then spit it out like nothing if it did not have a memory leak?

Also on page outs:

Quote:
Page outs occur when the Mac has to write information from RAM to the hard drive (because RAM is full). Adding more RAM may reduce page outs.
bill-p is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:02 PM   #15
throAU
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill-p View Post
Misinformed much?

Inactive is NOT cache. It's recently used memory:
It is ALSO cache.

I don't care what you're pulling from an apple KB article (yes I've already read it), i can see it accumulating as I do disc accesses by copying files, etc.


And yes when RAM is full you WILL get page outs. However a modern OS with an efficient memory allocator (and this includes OS X, newer versions of Windows, Linux, other Unix) will swap things out that don't need to be in memory pro-actively to ensure there is more RAM available for cache, to speed up disk access for the apps that ARE running.

The app, once swapped out is likely kept in INACTIVE MEMORY as well, so that if it needs to be reclaimed, it doesn't need to be swapped back in from disk. However, if the memory is needed for something else, the inactive memory is re-allocated quickly, because the inactive app is already swapped to disk - the OS doesn't need to wait for the swap to disk to happen before it can re-alloc.


The KB articles are sometimes very much a simplification for end users (and/or mis-interpreted), and are not necessarily fully representative of the way things work.


To answer the OP: your ram IS being utilised. the SWAP is the OS proactively swapping inactive things to disk so that if something else needs the memory it can be allocated. the INACTIVE memory likely contains the contents of what was swapped to disk, and the things in inactive memory will be kept there in case they need to be "swapped back in" before the inactive memory needs to be reclaimed for something else. If the INACTIVE memory containing the "swapped" pages was not reclaimed, no swap in needs to happen, the inactive memory just gets marked active again.


In short: unless your mac actually has a performance problem, don't go trying to look for issues in activity monitor. Well, by all means, look.... just don't jump to conclusions that things are bad if you see numbers for swap, without taking it into the context of what else is going on.

Modern memory management is a LOT more complex than "free memory = anything I haven't loaded up with programs" and "swap = bad, i ran out of memory!". I'm sure the apple memory allocator probably also takes into account things i haven't listed above, such as whether or not the disk is an SSD, when it determines how aggressively it should try to proactively swap.

Yes, you can get an idea of how bad memory pressure is if a machine is being forced to use swap a lot (in that case, your "inactive memory" size will be small and you'll have a lot of swap), but just looking at swap and seeing a number there is no reason to freak out about your memory not being used properly...


In your case, with that much inactive memory, and only a tiny percentage of your system memory consumed in swap - you have nothing to worry about. If you had say, 8 gigs in swap, you'd have something to worry about.



Oh and one more thing: the purge utility is a debug tool, intended for debugging. Yes, it will give you a bigger "free" memory number in actvitity monitor - by dumping the inactive memory contents. Which will interfere with the above memory management process, probably slow down disk access, etc. No, it won't break anything, but it likely won't fix anything either. Other than making the free memory number bigger.
__________________
MBP (early 2011) - Core i7 2720 2.2ghz, Hires Glossy, 16GB, Seagate Momentus XT 750GB
Mac Mini (mid 2007) - Core2 Duo 1.8, 2gb, 320gb 7200 rpm
iPhone 4S, iPad 4, iPad Mini, HTC One (eval)

Last edited by throAU; Dec 4, 2012 at 12:31 PM.
throAU is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:12 PM   #16
bill-p
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Inactive means memory that was "recently used". Simple as that.

Basically, it should be called "temporary" instead of "inactive".

When you have a lot of "inactive" memory, that means something is using up that much memory but is not marking the memory region as "active" (essential for the operation of the process).

Don't believe me? You have a lot of reading to do...

http://macosx.com/forums/mac-os-x-sy...ging-woes.html

Quote:
Inactive RAM may be thought of as a first stage swapfile. It contains instructions and data that are not currently in use within the OS or an application, but is left in RAM in the event it is needed again. If more Active RAM is needed, the Inactive RAM will be reassigned and if it contains data for a currently open application, that data will be rolled out to a swapfile. Otherwise the memory will simply be overwritten.
What your preconception of how an OS should act does NOT reflect what it actually does, nor does it reflect what the OS was designed to do.
bill-p is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Notebooks > MacBook Pro

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
15" retina with 16gb ram and page outs? nickandre21 MacBook Pro 16 Aug 7, 2013 08:46 AM
High page outs after ram upgrade and Mtn lion upgrade Squiggles13 MacBook Pro 1 Dec 7, 2012 09:57 PM
Another RAM question - Page Outs related ATC iMac 4 Aug 25, 2012 02:23 AM
Resolved: Massive Page-Outs using Parallels with 8GB RAM, Crucial M4 (image) NutsNGum MacBook Pro 4 Jul 25, 2012 09:35 PM
OWC 6G Drive and Ram Page Outs catgo MacBook Air 2 Jun 25, 2012 06:01 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC