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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:06 PM   #101
iWas
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Originally Posted by leman View Post
Well, I know what you mean and I understand your point. However, this debate is getting a bit circular. Frankly, there are no 100% convincing arguments for any side of it. You can come up with an counterargument to anything I say and via versa.

In the end, what matters is the overall trend and/or the will to change it. And Apple had some success with setting trends, as we all know. For optical media, the current time is time of transition, and there is an unmistakable trend for its phasing out. Few years ago, almost all content for computers came with CDs/DVDs; nowadays, the trend is digital distribution. I have no doubt that optical media will continue to exist in the following years, but its role will diminish to media content only (movies/music), basically, it will follow the path of tapes. Apple decided to accelerate this trend by ignoring ODD in their entirety. Some people support that decision, some don't. In the end, we can debate whether its good or not all day long, but the fact is that the ODD is gone from Apple products and its not coming back.
I agree with this much more so than your previous comparison of optical media to tape media. It is in Apple's best interest to move away from optical media as they don't sell any. It's also very difficult to buy a used digital download. The bottom line is that they haven't preventing you from enjoying optical media with an iMac they have just placed a barrier in your way.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:07 PM   #102
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:41 PM   #103
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Did people cry this much when floppy disk drives were taken out of computers?
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:44 PM   #104
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Did people cry this much when floppy disk drives were taken out of computers?
Yes they did. Many spent a ridiculous amount to buy a USB based floppy. Zip Drives were big at that time and CD recorders were starting to come down from the stratosphere in pricing.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:57 PM   #105
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Did people cry this much when floppy disk drives were taken out of computers?
Yes, people were freaking out. I was a PC user at the time and knew someone that got one of those iMacs and thought "Why would they do that? That's stupid." Well, two years later I didn't even have a working floppy drive in my PC and I didn't care.

http://www.osnews.com/story/18/The_i...spiracy_Theory

"That still left the issue of the floppy. Apple's explanation is that the floppy is a dying breed. It's slow and doesn't hold a lot of information. If you have a spreadsheet that you have to work on at home, just email it to yourself.

Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Personally, I think that shipping the iMac without a floppy is kind of a weird idea. Granted, the information it holds is small and slow. But it is still rather functional and cheap. Very cheap."

and

http://www.macworld.com/article/1133...inal_imac.html

"Considering all these amenities, the most shocking part of the iMac isnít what it offers, but what it lacks. The iMac has no floppy drive, which might be forgivable if there were a Zip drive or other removable-media option, but there isnít."
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:11 PM   #106
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When purchasing new software If I had the choice of delivery between physical CDs and digital downloads I'd pick digital download hands down. There's no reason to wait for 3-7 days for physical disks delivery provided I can start enjoying/using the new program (almost) instantly.

The last time I used the CD in my iMac was when I MP3ed my CD collection - and that collection was retired afterwards. I agree the sound quality of an MP3 is inferior to CD but for the sake of convenience I'd rather not use CDs at all. Any song is now 1 click away (2 if we count the "start itunes" click)
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:21 PM   #107
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Yes they did. Many spent a ridiculous amount to buy a USB based floppy. Zip Drives were big at that time and CD recorders were starting to come down from the stratosphere in pricing.
Wow... the day I got my first iPod was the day I stopped using my CD drive (except for installing MS Office).
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:25 PM   #108
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I have the 27 inch 2011, and my GF just got the 21 inch model. I agree the sound is a shame. However, other than the sound issue the new iMac is a pretty sweet machine. The screen is far better than the previous models, and the machine is far snappier. Anyhow, if you're concerned wait for the next refresh. They will probably address the crappy sound. Personally I don't really understand the need to make this machine thinner at the cost of functionality and repairability. However, if you need an iMac I think going for the latest one is pretty much a no brainer IMO. But if you already have the 2011 then you can relax. No need to make any sudden moves.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:34 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by comatose81 View Post
Wow... the day I got my first iPod was the day I stopped using my CD drive (except for installing MS Office).
Yup. Me too. In fact I once said i'd never buy an album unless it was on CD. Haven't lived up to that either. It's just too easy to deal with digital content wrt acquisition and management.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosopherdog View Post
I have the 27 inch 2011, and my GF just got the 21 inch model. I agree the sound is a shame. However, other than the sound issue the new iMac is a pretty sweet machine. The screen is far better than the previous models, and the machine is far snappier. Anyhow, if you're concerned wait for the next refresh. They will probably address the crappy sound. Personally I don't really understand the need to make this machine thinner at the cost of functionality and repairability. However, if you need an iMac I think going for the latest one is pretty much a no brainer IMO. But if you already have the 2011 then you can relax. No need to make any sudden moves.
Fortune loves it as well.

http://www.tuaw.com/2012/12/04/fortu...mac-best-ever/

I guess i've never been worried about the repairability of the iMac other than items that spin. Apple has removed one of the three items that move (ODD, HDD and fans) lessening my chance of failure. In the near future it'll be feasible to be all solid state for store eliminating another spinning item.

Like of or not the iMac pretty much is an appliance.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 06:39 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Yup. Me too. In fact I once said i'd never buy an album unless it was on CD. Haven't lived up to that either. It's just too easy to deal with digital content wrt acquisition and management.
I'll take that idea a step further. Aside from 3 or 4 blu-rays that I've purchased over the last couple of years, since the beginning of 2011, about 99% of all my movies and TV shows have been purchased through iTunes. And I couldn't be happier. iCloud, 1080p support, 5.1 Dolby Digital support, and Extras have all wooed me over. I don't want to open another can of worms debating between the quality of blu-ray vs iTunes, which is just as pointless and endless as debating about the ODD, but I watched The Dark Knight in 1080p on my parent's professionally calibrated Pioneer Elite Kuro Plasma TV over the weekend and I was honestly blown away by the quality.

I own both blu-ray and iTunes and at this point, any visual improvements the blu-ray content may have over iTunes has been effectively rendered moot for me. I love having my digital movies on iCloud. It's super convenient and the video quality is stunning now.

Not to mention it frees up my living room of clutter where as I used to have a 6 foot tall library of movies archived. Some will argue that you lose the right to own your content, but for me, going digital is like lifting a huge weight off my shoulders. All of my content, any of my devices, anywhere I go.

And as far PC/Mac games? Haven't purchased a single game disc for at least 5 years now.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 07:15 PM   #111
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I just can't understand why Apple would discontinue the ODD.

Oh, wait ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icaras View Post
about 99% of all my movies and TV shows have been purchased through iTunes.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:01 PM   #112
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Only thing I agree with you on is the ODD bring removed. However, I will buy I external ODD that will be better than anything apple would have put in if they did decide to keep it. Hardly use disks anymore but on the odd chance I download a movie and want to watch round a mates or burn a CD I borrowed from someone, I will be happy with the external.

The external sound system I currently use is better than any PC/MAC system out there.

SD Card, so what!! I have to reach an extra 2 inches!!

The thin design regardless of the bulky behind is sexy! gonna look fecking ace! and if that means I lose the internal ODD to a better external ODD and have to reach 2 inches behind the machine to put the SD card in, then thats a sacrifice i'm willing to make.

And thats without even mentioning the overall improved performance.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:30 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leman View Post
Well, I know what you mean and I understand your point. However, this debate is getting a bit circular. Frankly, there are no 100% convincing arguments for any side of it. You can come up with an counterargument to anything I say and via versa.

In the end, what matters is the overall trend and/or the will to change it. And Apple had some success with setting trends, as we all know. For optical media, the current time is time of transition, and there is an unmistakable trend for its phasing out. Few years ago, almost all content for computers came with CDs/DVDs; nowadays, the trend is digital distribution. I have no doubt that optical media will continue to exist in the following years, but its role will diminish to media content only (movies/music), basically, it will follow the path of tapes. Apple decided to accelerate this trend by ignoring ODD in their entirety. Some people support that decision, some don't. In the end, we can debate whether its good or not all day long, but the fact is that the ODD is gone from Apple products and its not coming back.
I don't understand this at all so the argument is internal drive on a desktop is good... External drive sitting next to desktop is the worst design choice ever?
Seriously? Apple gives us a choice for the buyers who never use a drive, one less component to fail plus slimmer designs. For the rest who require a drive well presto many brands available.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 10:27 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by xgman View Post
Anyone who cares about audio quality will have real speakers on their desk. Silly to think internal speakers can give any decent audio.
The internal speakers are never used if you care about sound. In both Mac's and PC's if sound is important connect using :

1/ Optical digital audio output (minijack) to home theater receiver digital input or external Dac.
2/ USB to S/PDIF converter such as Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 USB to S/PDIF Converter

In my case using networking I have a Naim ND5 XS streamer which accesses all music files in original wav. or aiff ripped dbpoweramp from QNap NAS which allows all computers to access redbook quality or even better quality from HDtracks in 24bit 96k samplingand better

For me the sd card slot is a non issue when the Canon 6D dslr or Nikon D600 with wifi adaptor can be used. Also alot of P&S digital cameras becoming available with wifi.

I am thinking of ordering 21" or 27" iMac as it has discrete graphics & non of the intel HD4000 hdmi issues that the 2012 Mac Mini has.

Dan
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:38 PM   #115
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most importantly, the audio quality should have at lease been maintained, if not improved.
One of the things I love most about my older iMac is the superb audio quality. There is NO WAY I would upgrade to a new model with significantly reduced audio quality, to say nothing about the absent optical drive and hard to reach SC card slot.
Funny, this article (link below) seems to only praise the new iMac, especially the audio.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/03/a...c-review-2012/

Maybe you should try out the new iMac, before making comments...
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:28 AM   #116
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I have 2010 and the new 2012 21.5" iMac base model. 2012 iMac audio is worst than 2010 model, bass is weak. I don't use OS X, I run Windows 7 on both machines, surfing internet, watching Youtube, there is no difference in performance. I buy iMac because the LCD is very good and it is very quiet. I bought a superdrive to install Windows 7, installation DVD could not pop out. I needed to flip the superdrive so that the gravity pulled the DVD out.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:29 AM   #117
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Will order my fully loaded 27" soon

SD:
I'm not happy about the location of the SD memory card slot...its going to be a headache every time I want to upload photos - not a thoughtful design by Apple. They probably put it there because it lines up with the motherboard and it was easier. I would have been more impressed if they put it into a thoughtful location along with the impressive work they did to change the design.
VESA:
I'm also concerned about the VESA mount, as I have an ergotron waiting for it
FIREWIRE:
Since Apple was the one who got us going on this connection, they shouldn't be taking it away. The iMac should be loaded with ports.... of all kind
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:47 AM   #118
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Speaking of USB ports on my new 2012 iMac, if I plug superdrive, USB3 memory stick, and Wacom Tablet, there is intereference(EMI) to my Microsoft wireless mouse USB receiver (I don't use Apple Mouse, it sucks, I got trackpad instead). My 2010 iMac does not have USB port EMI problem, maybe USB3 is too fast in speed.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:54 AM   #119
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I bought VMware Fusion 5 with my new iMac (27", still waiting for delivery). It arrived yesterday, complete with an install disc and an install USB drive.

I think this highlights the fact that the optical disc is on its way out, even for physical distribution.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 01:08 AM   #120
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I need a superdrive to copy my audio CDs to iTunes. I guess Apple is trying to force people to rent songs from iTunes store instead of buying audio CDs. That's why no more optical drive on iMac. Apples counts on iTunes store for its future revenue. I have two iMacs, one Macbook Pro, two iPads, one Apple TV and Airport Extreme. I don't think I will buy more stuffs from Apple in the furure. Maybe I will rent one or two songs from iTune store, that's it.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 01:42 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by rainbowsofwhite View Post
Funny, this article (link below) seems to only praise the new iMac, especially the audio.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/03/a...c-review-2012/

Maybe you should try out the new iMac, before making comments...
Hmmm that's quite a reflection on the screen in the first picture.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 04:44 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by apple-win View Post
I need a superdrive to copy my audio CDs to iTunes. I guess Apple is trying to force people to rent songs from iTunes store instead of buying audio CDs. That's why no more optical drive on iMac. Apples counts on iTunes store for its future revenue. I have two iMacs, one Macbook Pro, two iPads, one Apple TV and Airport Extreme. I don't think I will buy more stuffs from Apple in the furure. Maybe I will rent one or two songs from iTune store, that's it.
It's a good thing you have all thouse other macs hanging around, because you can easily use their optical drives on your new iMac with remote disk. Problem solved.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 03:20 PM   #123
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This post makes no sense....... None at all.....

People use drives in the business I'm in, that's all.
You say you need HD. Those are "HD" formats for audio and video.

FLAC has better audio than WAV, and H.264 looks exactly like blu ray, pixel for pixel.

No one in... hell any industry uses discs anymore. All 'net based these days, or portable HDD.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 03:28 PM   #124
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FLAC has better audio than WAV, and H.264 looks exactly like blu ray, pixel for pixel.
I would hope so, considering nearly every Blu Ray is encoded using H.264 (it's the most popular of several approved video encoding formats for the Blu Ray standard). It's just that the H.264 on iTunes is a much lower bitrate.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 04:50 PM   #125
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Buy a refurb 2011 model. Problem solved.
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