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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:44 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by annk View Post
You're wrong here, at least about moderation on MacRumors. It's not at all difficult for us to put our personal opinions aside when we evaluate whether or not a post has broken the rules. In everything except trolling we have a specific objective yardstick in the Forum Rules. Where trolling is concerned, you can refer to my post above.
Thats your opinion. I have my own
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:56 AM   #52
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Thats your opinion. I have my own
I beg to differ. In my short time as a mod here, I've not seen any bias by any mod or admin when it comes to making decisions regarding rules violations. We all see what the others do and are accountable to each other in the name of fairness.

The mod/admin team is a diverse group of people just like the membership as a whole and we differ on things among ourselves, but that doesn't impair our ability to be honest and fair.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 07:53 AM   #53
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I could not disagree more with the original post. I am not sure in which part of the forum he/she has been hanging out, but I stick to the Mac hardware and Apple Systems and Services sub forums. I also sometimes post in the news section and I've participated in the developer sub forums. The news section is a beast of its own and there is no need to say any more, since others have described it accurately already.

On the other forums I have mainly found users that are knowledgeable and go the extra mile to help. I have followed that example and have spent a lot of time diagnosing posters' issues or concerns step by step, even though it can be frustrating sometimes. Sure, there are occasional trolls, but that is life and as one goes through it, one will discover that there are trolls everywhere. Learning to deal with it is an important "life task".

I cannot abide by blind ignorance or stupidity and will call it out. Some sensitive people may think I am "trolling" them. Sometimes I do it in a nice way and sometimes in a less tactful manner, when I feel it is deserved. I have no time for people boldly spreading misinformation that other impressionable users will read and regurgitate. I also generally cannot stand people that "call wolf" and cannot resolve things without the intervention of a third party.

In a perfect world we should be able to moderate ourselves and most emotionally stable people are able to do this in the real world. On the internet things are different since it's much easier to say things to theSeb using your keyboard that you would think twice about saying when you're facing a 6'3" 240 pound man. Then there is also the problem of miscommunication using the written language. Things are taken out of context or misunderstood. A lot of times the intention, or the humour, is lost in the post and people get upset and argumentative for no reason.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 08:09 AM   #54
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There are fanboys on all sides.

Unfortunately, some don't even know they're fanboys due to lack of exposure to "the other side"...
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 08:43 AM   #55
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There are fanboys on all sides.

Unfortunately, some don't even know they're fanboys due to lack of exposure to "the other side"...
Yes exactly... They are blind to their own condition
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 02:40 PM   #56
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MOD NOTE

We have removed a number of posts for this thread because they implied that particular members were 'trolls'.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 03:35 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by SandboxGeneral View Post
I beg to differ. In my short time as a mod here, I've not seen any bias by any mod or admin when it comes to making decisions regarding rules violations. We all see what the others do and are accountable to each other in the name of fairness.

The mod/admin team is a diverse group of people just like the membership as a whole and we differ on things among ourselves, but that doesn't impair our ability to be honest and fair.
I've seen it. A lot of people have too. But when we can't show you examples cause we risk TO and deletion because the rules say you can't talk about other members. Honest and fair? Most are. Some aren't.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 04:24 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
But when we can't show you examples cause we risk TO and deletion because the rules say you can't talk about other members.
Where do the rules say this?
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 04:48 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by dejo View Post
Where do the rules say this?
In keeping with this privacy policy, if you post in the forums asking why your post was moderated, your post will be removed (it's almost always off-topic to the thread it's in). The answer to "Why was my post deleted?" is always the same: it violated a forum rule or was a quote of a post that violated a forum rule. If you want a further explanation use the Contact form so we can be perfectly frank and discuss your posts and forum record. You can post in the Site and Forum Feedback forum if you want to discuss forum rules and moderation policies in general, but keep it general, not about a specific case of moderation.


Do not post about the moderation of a thread in that thread. To ask general questions about moderation or moderation policies, post in the Site and Forum Feedback Forum

besides this, there's all the posts that have been deleted and the warnings I and others have received for discussing moderation and other member's posts.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 05:04 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
besides this, there's all the posts that have been deleted and the warnings I and others have received for discussing moderation and other member's posts.
Well, those rules you quoted do not forbid talking about other members (although there are other rules that qualify how that can be done; for example, no insults or name-calling). They forbid talking about specific cases of moderation. I hope you understand the distinction. If not, ask and we'll try to clarify.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 05:10 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by dejo View Post
Well, those rules you quoted do not forbid talking about other members (although there are other rules that qualify how that can be done; for example, no insults or name-calling). They forbid talking about specific cases of moderation. I hope you understand the distinction. If not, ask and we'll try to clarify.
I understand the distinction. The discussion turned to fairness in moderation and I posted how we can't talk about specific cases because of the rules. I guess I wasn't clear enough.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 05:16 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
I understand the distinction. The discussion turned to fairness in moderation and I posted how we can't talk about specific cases because of the rules. I guess I wasn't clear enough.
Sorry if I misunderstood.

And you can talk about specific cases of your own moderation, if you are willing to waive your right to moderation privacy.

EDIT:
And if you wish to discuss the fairness of moderation, perhaps this existing thread (where it's being discussed extensively) would be more appropriate.

Last edited by dejo; Dec 4, 2012 at 05:35 PM.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 05:46 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by dejo View Post
Sorry if I misunderstood.

And you can talk about specific cases of your own moderation, if you are willing to waive your right to moderation privacy.

EDIT:
And if you wish to discuss the fairness of moderation, perhaps this existing thread (where it's being discussed extensively) would be more appropriate.
Nothing to apologize for. I'll check out that other thread.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 06:05 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
I understand the distinction. The discussion turned to fairness in moderation and I posted how we can't talk about specific cases because of the rules. I guess I wasn't clear enough.
Please also note that you are also free to engage the staff in private using the report post button or using "Contact Us" whenever you see something you think may be a violation, or you want an explanation of why we thought a post you reported wasn't removed or edited.

B
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 06:58 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by balamw View Post
Please also note that you are also free to engage the staff in private using the report post button or using "Contact Us" whenever you see something you think may be a violation, or you want an explanation of why we thought a post you reported wasn't removed or edited.

B
Thank you for the reminder. I have done that but usually get more frustrated. Honestly, I feel that there is a mods stick together and do nothing wrong mentality. You have moderators who feel there is nothing wrong with posts from long standing members that are filled with insults... what more can I say to them after pointing this out in the contact us form. Its mind boggling that a moderator can read things like "you're just being obnoxious" and not think that that is an insult.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 07:51 PM   #66
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Prime example... http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...6#post16427596

How few features does the iPhone 5 have if Apple have to run this Ad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickchallis92 View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXnNuIYmDck

This truly made me laugh when it popped up on the TV a few minutes ago.

This has been the standard in phones now for maybe 3 years?

...blimey
Nothing to do with alternative OS or devices. Just a trolling thread that is expressing an anti apple view point hiding in the alt OS area.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 07:52 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
Its mind boggling that a moderator can read things like "you're just being obnoxious" and not think that that is an insult.
Not every rude post is an insult or trolling.

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Old Dec 4, 2012, 08:09 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
Honestly, I feel that there is a mods stick together and do nothing wrong mentality.
You see us "stick together" only because we've spent significant time deliberating. We don't always agree. In fact we disagree a lot. We spend a lot of time debating because we all have different backgrounds and experiences which lead to different opinions. I wouldn't say the debates get very heated, but we do tend to have strong opinions. It's the only way we can baseline ourselves and make moderation as consistent as possible.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 02:28 AM   #69
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Maybe a true Urban definition of just what Trolling means would help a little..The Urban Dictionary ( I have edited out certain borderline words ) states thus:
Trolling:

The art of deliberately, cleverly, and secretly annoying people , usually via the internet, using dialogue. Trolling does not mean just making rude remarks: Shouting swear words at someone doesn't count as trolling; it's just flaming, and isn't funny. Spam isn't trolling either; it annoy's people that's all.


Many postings that seem to be classified as Trolling do not fall into this category, so I guess it comes down to the MR definition of Trolling....Every site has it's own pre-defined concept of a Troll.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 05:46 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Macman45 View Post
Many postings that seem to be classified as Trolling do not fall into this category, so I guess it comes down to the MR definition of Trolling....Every site has it's own pre-defined concept of a Troll.
Macman45, how are you coming to this conclusion? Most postings that are moderated as trolling are removed from the site, so how would you know?

I would agree with you that many if not most posts reported as trolling don't fit either the Urban Dictionary or the MR definitions of trolling. For the record these are:
  • Trolling. Do not post in order to anger other members or intentionally cause negative reactions. For a given post, this can be a subjective call, but a pattern of such posting or an especially egregious case will get you banned.
  • Insults. Slurs and insults against groups of people based on negative-stereotyping and obvious generalizations fall into the category of trolling and will be treated as such.
  • Trolling. Posts that appear to be designed to cause argument or irritate rather than contribute to a constructive discussion are considered trolling and will be treated as such.

B
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 07:25 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by balamw View Post
Not every rude post is an insult or trolling.

B
I agree. But the one I quoted was. See, this is my point. I make a point, give an example of an insult and get the answer "not every rude post..." Yeah, but this one was. You guys can't stop towing the company line, so to speak.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 07:33 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by balamw View Post
Macman45, how are you coming to this conclusion? Most postings that are moderated as trolling are removed from the site, so how would you know?

I would agree with you that many if not most posts reported as trolling don't fit either the Urban Dictionary or the MR definitions of trolling. For the record these are:
  • Trolling. Do not post in order to anger other members or intentionally cause negative reactions. For a given post, this can be a subjective call, but a pattern of such posting or an especially egregious case will get you banned.
  • Insults. Slurs and insults against groups of people based on negative-stereotyping and obvious generalizations fall into the category of trolling and will be treated as such.
  • Trolling. Posts that appear to be designed to cause argument or irritate rather than contribute to a constructive discussion are considered trolling and will be treated as such.

B

It was simply a definition taken form the Urban Dictionary...as to how it's applied, I was pointing out that each forum / board be it Mac, Windows's cars whatever has its own way of defining a troll.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:17 AM   #73
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It was simply a definition taken form the Urban Dictionary...as to how it's applied, I was pointing out that each forum / board be it Mac, Windows's cars whatever has its own way of defining a troll.
I was responding to this:

Quote:
Many postings that seem to be classified as Trolling do not fall into this category
What did you mean by that if not to say that we classify some posts here as trolling that shouldn't have been if we used the urban dictionary definition?

Our definition doesn't fall too far from the one used by the urban dictionary.

B
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:04 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balamw View Post
I was responding to this:



What did you mean by that if not to say that we classify some posts here as trolling that shouldn't have been if we used the urban dictionary definition?

Our definition doesn't fall too far from the one used by the urban dictionary.

B
I was NOT referring to MR specifically...As posted above, it was a general observation on definition...Note that I applied my comment to all sites and not at any specifically. I don't understand the somewhat vitriolic nature of your responses.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:18 AM   #75
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I agree. But the one I quoted was. See, this is my point. I make a point, give an example of an insult and get the answer "not every rude post..." Yeah, but this one was. You guys can't stop towing the company line, so to speak.


I don't see that as an insult at all.




I'm sorry, there are too many MR members who need to lighten up and/or stop bucking to be made a moderator. It's a freaking forum.
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