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Old Dec 5, 2012, 01:54 PM   #101
GPUFreak
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Originally Posted by forty2j View Post
.. never mind, misread

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Given that bootcamp is Windows running directly on the hardware, I don't see how it could slow anything down...

Surely you weren't thinking it was virtualization?
lol no, i misread as WINE haha xD d'oh. but i imagine using an OS on a partition won't be ideal, though i have only used bootcamp 1-2 times, and can't judge on that particular case.

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additionally, even if macs had games like BF3(one day ), the performance @1080 is kinda low, and if you ran it at a 27 in imacs native res (2600x1440?) it would be well below 30fps (threshold to be considered smooth)

Last edited by GPUFreak; Dec 5, 2012 at 01:54 PM. Reason: fixed wording
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 01:56 PM   #102
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to clarify, for nvidia: GTC 690>590>680>670>660ti>580>680mx>660>680m
BTW - notebookcheck.net has the 580 below both the 660Ti and the 680MX.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 01:58 PM   #103
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Apple will also most likely under clock it further, due to the fact that the new iMac has HORRIBLE ventilation, and is inadequate to cool a card of this power at stock speeds.

Macs CANT be a gaming machine as they don't have games to play(lol).

Another point, no mac game will require anything more than the 660m in the base 27 in, or at the most, the 675MX will max any mac game.
"new iMac has HORRIBLE ventilation"
Please provide the source of this... I'll be surprised to get a response.

"don't have games to play"
Check out Steam some day.

"675MX will max any mac game"
There are plenty of heavy hitting games native to OSX... The Witcher 2 will chew up and spit out the 680MX like it is nothing!

The majority of what you said in your post holds no water... these are just a few examples.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 01:59 PM   #104
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GTC 690>590>680>670>660ti>580>680mx>660>680m

idk about 680mx, but maybe it is above 580, the 580 and 660 are around 5-10% apart, so maybe i misjudged on that one.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 01:59 PM   #105
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true, but we actually do know clocks of 680mx, and its pretty low tbh,.... i love macs for general use, but if you try to game on it, it will generally end in headaches.

besides most ppl are unfairly biased against windows, they compare their 1k macs with 400$, outdated machines with limited security. After getting a pc for gaming, and then protecting it properly, i find they both work equally as well, and it comes down to preferance. Most of the ppl who despise windows have had no good experience with a pc.
I don't man, I've built my own PC/Hackintosh.

Gaming in Windows 8 results in weird crashes and freezes.
Gaming in OS X results in slower performance due to worse drivers and optimizations.

As a result I'll just watch TV instead.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 02:01 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by MojoRisinSD View Post
"new iMac has HORRIBLE ventilation"
Please provide the source of this... I'll be surprised to get a response.

"don't have games to play"
Check out Steam some day.

"675MX will max any mac game"
There are plenty of heavy hitting games native to OSX... The Witcher 2 will chew up and spit out the 680MX like it is nothing!

The majority of what you said in your post holds no water... these are just a few examples.
"based on what i've seen and can assume"

"compared to pc I mean, you won't see more than maybe 1 high end game, which steam doesn't have much of"

"witcher 2 on mac? touche there but thats only 1"

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Originally Posted by omenatarhuri View Post
I don't man, I've built my own PC/Hackintosh.

Gaming in Windows 8 results in weird crashes and freezes.
Gaming in OS X results in slower performance due to worse drivers and optimizations.

As a result I'll just watch TV instead.
w8 = crap
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 02:03 PM   #107
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"don't have games to play"
This is retarded anyway since you can always install precious Windows very easily with bootcamp. You can't get a display like the new iMac 27" for a PC.

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w8 = crap
Love the boot-up speed, but there's certainly some rough corners elsewhere.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 02:05 PM   #108
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]additionally, even if macs had games like BF3(one day ), the performance @1080 is kinda low, and if you ran it at a 27 in imacs native res (2600x1440?) it would be well below 30fps (threshold to be considered smooth)
It will of course depend on the game and the settings. On the 680M (because that's the easiest comparison I can pull up), BF3 came in at 36fps on Ultra at 1080p. That should be around 40fps for the 680MX, and then moving to 1440p would seem to be right around 30fps. This would be in Bootcamp of course.. you do still pay a small performance penalty for OpenGL in OS X, which many gamers (like myself) are happy to pay if given the opportunity to not use Windows. Going to merely high instead of ultra gets you to 74fps at 1080p on the 680M.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 02:10 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by forty2j View Post
It will of course depend on the game and the settings. On the 680M (because that's the easiest comparison I can pull up), BF3 came in at 36fps on Ultra at 1080p. That should be around 40fps for the 680MX, and then moving to 1440p would seem to be right around 30fps. This would be in Bootcamp of course.. you do still pay a small performance penalty for OpenGL in OS X, which many gamers (like myself) are happy to pay if given the opportunity to not use Windows. Going to merely high instead of ultra gets you to 74fps at 1080p on the 680M.
Means from ultra @ 4AA to high no AA, so not straight comparison. But I see your point.

I still fail to see the windows hate. Yes OSX is better but windows certainly isn't bad If you know how to use it.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 02:18 PM   #110
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lol no, i misread as WINE haha xD d'oh. but i imagine using an OS on a partition won't be ideal, though i have only used bootcamp 1-2 times, and can't judge on that particular case.

----------

additionally, even if macs had games like BF3(one day ), the performance @1080 is kinda low, and if you ran it at a 27 in imacs native res (2600x1440?) it would be well below 30fps (threshold to be considered smooth)
I watched some game videos on youtube, and there's this guy playing BF3 on a stock 2011 iMac with 12GB RAM. It looked pretty good to me.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 02:23 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by GPUFreak View Post
Means from ultra @ 4AA to high no AA, so not straight comparison. But I see your point.

I still fail to see the windows hate. Yes OSX is better but windows certainly isn't bad If you know how to use it.
I had to use my wife's Windows box for Civ this past weekend because my old iMac is still dead and my new iMac isn't ordered yet. I wanted to scream and poke my eyes out at the same time, just fending off the army of browser toolbars so I could get drivers updated etc.

Windows is definitely more flexible if you're willing to put the time into it. I'm not. I want my time on my computer to be using it, not administrating it. With rare exception my Macs just run themselves without me needing to intervene.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 03:12 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by CoreyLahey View Post
I watched some game videos on youtube, and there's this guy playing BF3 on a stock 2011 iMac with 12GB RAM. It looked pretty good to me.
Who cares about low settings
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 03:13 PM   #113
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This is retarded anyway since you can always install precious Windows very easily with bootcamp. You can't get a display like the new iMac 27" for a PC.
You can get a Dell or NEC monitor.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 03:17 PM   #114
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You can get a Dell or NEC monitor.
Not one that looks as nice, is as thin, and is fully laminated. I think the last one will make the image on this pop more than before. Haven't seen one yet, but looking forward to it. Factory calibrationsjould also be good for us without calibrationgear.

I have 24" dell and 30" LG now and id trade both in for one of these 27" models.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 03:26 PM   #115
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Here is your customized Mach V system configuration.


System Details

Chassis
ICON2 Exotix - Any Single Color
Chassis Logo Insert
White Light
Chassis Fan Kit
Performance Fan Pack
Sound Dampening
AcoustiPack Sound Dampening Foam
Power Supply
1500 Watt Modular
Motherboard
Rampage IV Extreme
Processor
Intel® Core™ i7 3960X 3.3GHz
Processor Cooler
Liquid Cooling - Mach V
Processor Overclock
No Processor Overclock
Memory
Elite 1866MHz 64GB (8x8GB)
Video Card
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Video Card 2
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Video Card 3
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Monitor
30" 2560x1600
Sound Card
On-Board Audio
Speakers
Z-523 2.1
Networking
On-Board Ethernet
Hard Drive
m4 SSD - 512GB
Hard Drive 2
m4 SSD - 512GB
Optical Drive
24x DVD Writer
64-Bit Operating System
Windows 8 Standard
Office Software
Office Professional 2010
Warranty
3 Year Warranty - Mach V

Shipping options

UPS Ground : $240.10
UPS 2-Day : $624.03
UPS Overnight : $966.24
USPS (APO Only) : $915.00
UPS 3 DAY : $366.00

Total System Price: $17140.75

(OS X).
All that money and it still only runs boring old Windows in an ugly plastic box.

Pass.

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Old Dec 5, 2012, 04:28 PM   #116
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Who cares about low settings
The ones I had seen were played with high or max settings, I believe some even in native resolution, and it was still playable. Speaking about caring, I personally don't, when it comes to Battlefield 3.

Edit: never mind, I read up on your previous posts, I had initially thought you were somebody concerned he couldn't play his game on the new iMacs. Now I realize that you're obviously a computer engineer, who worked on designing the new iMacs. Thanks for all those unbiased tips on what's best for people : )

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Old Dec 5, 2012, 04:41 PM   #117
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^^ Intel Extreme Edition CPUs are for bragging rights only. Not to mention everything else. Sheer excess.

All you need for gaming are a 3570k, something in the neighborhood of a 7950/660Ti/670, and a good SSD/HDD combo.

Would upgrade to a new PC, but temptation to wait for Haswell is too strong, and there's also the matter of a separate monitor.

If nothing else, iMacs have great resell. I'm tempted to go for the 680MX. The real question for me is whether or not the new iMacs can be taken in and drive swapped. I want an SSD as a boot drive but don't want Fusion (won't dualboot on SSD from what I hear) so I'm thinking of using the HDD externally to get around it.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:08 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by rainbowsofwhite View Post
All that money and it still only runs boring old Windows in an ugly plastic box.

Pass.
Macs do look nice, but you have to face the facts: a $1000 desktop PC can outperform the $2500 iMac. Maybe if they didn't decide to try and make the beast as thin as possible, it could use something besides mobile GPUs. Heat is and always will be the #1 problem with them. Oh and BTW I have a 2011 iMac 27" so I'm no hater. I just enjoy running OS X on my tri-screen PC as well.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:32 PM   #119
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Macs do look nice, but you have to face the facts: a $1000 desktop PC can outperform the $2500 iMac. Maybe if they didn't decide to try and make the beast as thin as possible, it could use something besides mobile GPUs. Heat is and always will be the #1 problem with them. Oh and BTW I have a 2011 iMac 27" so I'm no hater. I just enjoy running OS X on my tri-screen PC as well.
Not when you factor in a comparable display
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:51 PM   #120
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Macs do look nice, but you have to face the facts: a $1000 desktop PC can outperform the $2500 iMac. Maybe if they didn't decide to try and make the beast as thin as possible, it could use something besides mobile GPUs. Heat is and always will be the #1 problem with them. Oh and BTW I have a 2011 iMac 27" so I'm no hater. I just enjoy running OS X on my tri-screen PC as well.
I was trying to configure a PC before the iMacs were announced, but always landed at around 1,300 - 1,600, without the display. I wasn't seriously looking into the PC option though, since I've been wanting to switch to OSX and have a desktop again.

If games had been my priority I probably would have ended up building a PC, but the iMac has so many advantages for me, that anything else wouldn't provide me the same value. I get a gorgeous and huge display, a great current CPU, fusion drive, OSX, the currently fastest mobile GPU which will let me play current and future games at high resolutions and settings plus the option to still use Windows 7. I've had a 16" Laptop (which actually was quite awesome, sold it in anticipation of iMacs at the time) until June and am currently "working" with a Chromebook. So for me, this machine is a vast improvement. A 2011 low-end 27 would have been. For somebody with a tri-SLI 680 System and a oc'd CPU ... not so much ; )
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:00 PM   #121
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Not one that looks as nice, is as thin, and is fully laminated. I think the last one will make the image on this pop more than before. Haven't seen one yet, but looking forward to it. Factory calibrationsjould also be good for us without calibrationgear.

I have 24" dell and 30" LG now and id trade both in for one of these 27" models.
All displays are calibrated to some degree at the factory. If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't be able to get usable results even with a colorimeter. Factory grade equipment is much more accurate than a $100-200 consumer device. Also displays far better than that one are still calibrated or profiled on a regular basis if you want to maintain a semi consistent target. You are just speculating on all of that.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:51 PM   #122
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The 680 video card for the PC from what I have read/reviewed does become very warm/hot - requiring heavy circulation and adequate case capacity.
Perhaps, the above could be due to the driver code not optimized but I imagine it would be somewhat similar for the new iMac.
Additionally, In time via the forum we will gain a better understanding from users.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 02:15 AM   #123
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^^ Intel Extreme Edition CPUs are for bragging rights only. Not to mention everything else. Sheer excess.

All you need for gaming are a 3570k, something in the neighborhood of a 7950/660Ti/670, and a good SSD/HDD combo.

...

SSD/HDD combo; like Fusion?
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 08:54 AM   #124
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All displays are calibrated to some degree at the factory. If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't be able to get usable results even with a colorimeter. Factory grade equipment is much more accurate than a $100-200 consumer device. Also displays far better than that one are still calibrated or profiled on a regular basis if you want to maintain a semi consistent target. You are just speculating on all of that.
Likewise. Can't wait for a technical review from somebody like Anandtech.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 09:49 AM   #125
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The 680 video card for the PC from what I have read/reviewed does become very warm/hot - requiring heavy circulation and adequate case capacity.
Link?

When you say "680" with no letters after it, that's the Desktop card. And yes, you could probably make toast on it.
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