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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:14 AM   #126
teknikal90
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Originally Posted by ikir View Post
Mmm like most of the costumers i see everyday?
'almost'. they're the minority
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:34 PM   #127
StephenFleming
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Apple has released updates for both the iOS and Mac versions of iWork. The iOS versions of Pages, Numbers and Keynote have experienced more significant updates, while the Mac versions have been updated mainly to support the iOS changes.
If there have been any changes in either desktop or iOS Keynote to support master slides (as claimed in the release notes), they're obscure to the point of invisibility. Still can't edit master slides on iOS. Still can't select a different master slide on iOS. Online help doesn't mention master slides at all.

The only change I see is that, when you add a new slide in iOS, you get choices based on the master slides you created on the Mac. Yay?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:50 PM   #128
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Office 2011 for Mac = great!

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Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post
but my wife runs Office on her MBP and it's buggy as heck, ...(which always seems to be the case).
I use Word 2011 everyday - no bugs, instability or crashes.

Office 2011 for Mac is a great program(s) although I don't care much for Outlook. iWork always seems to be missing a necessary feature, e.g. - full screen video in Keynote.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 01:37 PM   #129
IJ Reilly
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As far as I can tell, the newly updated Pages still does not allow me to automatically save or open documents in MS WORD format, the format 100% of my clients use, so, nice as Pages is, it'll remain mostly unused on my iMac.
This is rapidly becoming my pet peeve complaint about Pages. It is completely lacking in logic or validity, and doesn't seem to apply in any other case that I know about. Every app that has its own document format will save natively in that format by default, such that all of the document features created in that app are saved properly. It is entirely correct that saving to any other format will require an extra step to create a new document (an export or a save as). This process tells the user that some features may be changed or lost in the new document, and also insures that features specific to the creating app are kept in the original file and not lost. Doing this "automatically" would be a huge human engineering mistake. In short this is not a "missing feature" but a correct implementation.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 02:39 PM   #130
rcappo
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It only took 2 and a half years, but I waited them out and now will be able to buy the latest iWork apps instead of iWork 2009.

Now, I will have to upgrade my OS on my MacBook to 10.8 though.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 03:43 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Stu-Pid View Post
So you are upset that MS is making improvements to their products to benefit those of us that use them all of the time and rely on them for our living? Are you proposing that instead they should stall the products and keep them outdated so that occasional users don't have to spend a small amount of time learning where the buttons for basic functions are now located?

There is even a very simple workaround offered by MS where they allow you to edit the quick access toolbar to include as many or as few functions as you desire. So occasional users could almost certainly have all of their commonly used functionality available via a single click on the (ever-present) quick access toolbar.

You also have to remember that for completely new users of Excel, learning to use the Ribbon is undoubtedly easier than sifting through the old menu commands from 2003.
Oh snap, @everything-i...looks like @Stu-Pid put your anti-MS bias back in its place (which is in the same garbage pile that contains the "I hate anything that isn't Apple" rants from Apple fanatics).

It never ceases to amaze me why there's so much venom directed towards anything that isn't made by Apple.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 04:27 PM   #132
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As soon as Office for iOS is out, I'm done with the iWork suite for good. I've already made the change for the desktop. Why bother with "exporting" to an Office format, when the MS makes the program native?
I stopped exporting ages ago. When a colleague or customer needs something in MS format, I simply email them the document or excel file right from pages or numbers. I've had zero compatibility issues expressed to me. If you're creating complex excel files, I can see needing MS, but for basic usage, Apple's programs work great for me.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 05:10 PM   #133
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Oh snap, @everything-i...looks like @Stu-Pid put your anti-MS bias back in its place (which is in the same garbage pile that contains the "I hate anything that isn't Apple" rants from Apple fanatics).

It never ceases to amaze me why there's so much venom directed towards anything that isn't made by Apple.
MS deserves every bit of venom they get spit their way. They've offered products and services over the years that were unintuitive and problem riddled, creating a whole new market for companies that were set up just to fix MS's problems. They were and still are more of a behemoth than Apple is - even if Apple has more cash and dollars earned.

Frankly I don't know why so many people keep defending MS - they haven't exactly been a saintly company over the years and for those that harp on Apple because they're "so big, so popular" while supporting MS, it's a little hypocritical don't you think?

I've been around computers for a long time - my first computer class was a punch card computer class to give you an idea. My first word processing experience was on my university's mainframe computer system, which was a horrid user experience, given it was not WYSIWYG. When I first used a 1984 Apple Macintosh, I can remember saying to my then roommate who had the Mac, that this is how typing should be, given it was one of the first real WYSIWYG word processing computers out there.

MS, for those not old enough to realize this, has been "borrowing" Apple ideas and designs for decades. I can remember MS blatantly copying menus and file images from Apple back in the late 80's and early 90's - because they could. Apple, because they waffled on the idea of licensing their software, ended up getting passed by MS simply because of the quantity of PC's coming to market made Apple's pitiful couple of models non-competitive.

So before you think all Apple fans hate MS for some unknown reason, be aware that there is more to the story than you think.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 05:16 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post
So before you think all Apple fans hate MS for some unknown reason, be aware that there is more to the story than you think.
Amen. Those of us who really know Microsoft know enough to dislike Microsoft.

At least their days of holding back the entire tech market are over. (I hope.)
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 05:51 PM   #135
curmudgeon32
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I've successfully used Keynote as leverage for getting to use a Mac at work. After seeing presentations built in Keynote alongside PowerPoint presentations, people were so wowed by Keynote that we've started building a lot more stuff that way. It's a superior product, but Apple's blatant disregard for providing any way for people on a PC to view Keynote presentations really hampers everything.

Until this summer, I could upload a Keynote presentation to Apple's iWork site, where it could be viewed in-browser by anyone running Safari on PC or Mac. It wasn't perfect, but it definitely worked. When iWork went away, they pulled that site down and didn't make any kind of iCloud replacement. (There's a way to share the Keynote files for download via iCloud, but no in-browser viewer).

So now I have no way to show PC-based people a Keynote presentation, aside from exporting it as a QuickTime movie (which is not really ideal). So I end up exporting the whole thing to a PDF, which pretty much blows. And before you ask: keynote to PowerPoint export is not very good. All the great animations I build just get hosed in translation.

So, my number one request would be a PC-based viewer for Keynote files. If that existed, I think you'd find Keynote very quickly gaining market share. It would be kind of like the way a lot of other graphic content is made: the creative producers work on Macs and the consumers are on all kinds of other computers.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 06:12 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by curmudgeon32 View Post
So, my number one request would be a PC-based viewer for Keynote files.
Now that would be awesome!

Maybe export to a self-contained HTML5 show that can be run from any compliant browser?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 06:34 PM   #137
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I just love how this update requires Lion or higher.....for software that was *packaged* with my Snow Leopard disc. Yet another example of forcing people to upgrade & shell out.

My system WORKS and my audio tools take priority over iWork so I'll stay w/ the old version. Be nice for them to support the OS that they sold this with since its more of a tinker than an upgrade.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 06:44 PM   #138
NorEaster
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Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post
So before you think all Apple fans hate MS for some unknown reason, be aware that there is more to the story than you think.
I don't think all Apple fans hate MS for some unknown reason; I was criticizing @everything-i for hating MS because they were catering to their Excel power users. That isn't a good reason to "spit venom" at MS. Catering to your core users who rely on your app to make a living is what a company SHOULD be doing.

Did you even read the posts or did you immediately jump to conclusions like many Apple fanatics? If you want to hate MS for other reasons, go for it. But read the thread first to understand what my comments were directed at.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:35 PM   #139
bigwig
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Originally Posted by AppliedMicro View Post
What do you think is missing?
A whole bunch of spreadsheet functions are missing, for starters. Despite its much prettier interface, I've had to dump Numbers in favor of LibreOffice because of it.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 03:42 AM   #140
everything-i
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So they should cater to the folks who barely use the program?
No people that don't use it day in day out all day long, like most users. The ones that use it maybe every other day to review documents and maybe create a document once a week.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 03:56 AM   #141
everything-i
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So you are upset that MS is making improvements to their products to benefit those of us that use them all of the time and rely on them for our living? Are you proposing that instead they should stall the products and keep them outdated so that occasional users don't have to spend a small amount of time learning where the buttons for basic functions are now located?

There is even a very simple workaround offered by MS where they allow you to edit the quick access toolbar to include as many or as few functions as you desire. So occasional users could almost certainly have all of their commonly used functionality available via a single click on the (ever-present) quick access toolbar.

You also have to remember that for completely new users of Excel, learning to use the Ribbon is undoubtedly easier than sifting through the old menu commands from 2003.
My point is, why not cater for all users, not just folks that use it all day long every day. There should be an option to switch so its easier to migrate meaning you don't have to relearn the whole thing in one go. Only providing ribbons with no option to revert and migrate your skills to the new system over time was just lazy. If you have been using office since word 6 then switching from the old system to ribbons was a major undertaking because you have to unlearn 15 years of skills and build up new ones and if you don't use the software all day every day that takes a significant amount of time.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:19 AM   #142
Stu-Pid
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Originally Posted by everything-i View Post
My point is, why not cater for all users, not just folks that use it all day long every day. There should be an option to switch so its easier to migrate meaning you don't have to relearn the whole thing in one go. Only providing ribbons with no option to revert and migrate your skills to the new system over time was just lazy. If you have been using office since word 6 then switching from the old system to ribbons was a major undertaking because you have to unlearn 15 years of skills and build up new ones and if you don't use the software all day every day that takes a significant amount of time.
I understand your point, and I myself had a couple of weeks of being slightly slowed down until I found my feet. However, if you give people the option of 'classic view' and 'ribbon view' then the people like yourself would never switch, and would continue to use classic view forever, because it is easier than having to adjust. That then means that they have to support two menu systems, and you'll forever have a user base split between ribbon users and classic users. Sometimes you just have to draw a line in the sand and move forward for the good of the product.

Excel 2007 was a massive step forward from 2003, and when you stand back after having made the switch from classic to ribbon, I can genuinely say that I think that the current system is a huge improvement from the old menu system, and definitely a step forward from those awful task panes that they kept adding.

But I will say thank you for the ribbon haters for one thing, my post yesterday complained about the 2007 colour palette changing from the 2003 version, so that prompted me to do a bit of digging online and discover how to create a custom palette which I have now assigned to all new workbooks. I now have my 2003 colours back.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 07:31 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by NorEaster View Post
I don't think all Apple fans hate MS for some unknown reason; I was criticizing @everything-i for hating MS because they were catering to their Excel power users. That isn't a good reason to "spit venom" at MS. Catering to your core users who rely on your app to make a living is what a company SHOULD be doing.

Did you even read the posts or did you immediately jump to conclusions like many Apple fanatics? If you want to hate MS for other reasons, go for it. But read the thread first to understand what my comments were directed at.
I wasn't speaking directly to you - but to the typical anti-Apple faction out there. There has been a battle between Apple and non-Apple supporters for years. I see more blind hate from the MS side than I do coming from the typical Apple fans. It's as if people dis-like Apple because they've been different - and that's it. Or they complain about price - that every Apple device is more expensive than the PC / smartphone / tablet / iPod competition, which of course is not exactly true.

And if you read my post you'd realize that I'm simply saying that MS has earned the spite they get 100%.

And I have, in other posts, agreed wholeheartedly that if one needs to create or work with complex excel spreadsheets, excel is the way to go.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 07:36 AM   #144
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No people that don't use it day in day out all day long, like most users. The ones that use it maybe every other day to review documents and maybe create a document once a week.
I would assume that "most users" of Office are business users and we use the programs more than every other day.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 07:46 AM   #145
everything-i
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I would assume that "most users" of Office are business users and we use the programs more than every other day.
Depends what kind of business user you are, a lot use many other tools more than office and therefore are not power office users but use it as a tool for review and edits more than original document creation. But even the power users had no option and on day one had to relearn the thing. A more sensible approach would have been a migration path to allow users to gradually get used to the ribbons without killing productivity on day one thus flattening out the learning curve. This is my experience, we had a lot of problems when my company migrated and many of our users still struggle to find the lesser used functionality even now. Our Mac users had a much easier time of it because the menus are still there giving the option of menus or ribbons.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 08:00 AM   #146
tootall
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action buttons

Can anyone tell me if we can add in Keynote an action button like in PPT? In PPT the action button can be linked to open an excel, word or pdf file. The previous Keynote that I have tried could only link to emails and other useless stuff for me.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 09:12 AM   #147
Max(IT)
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Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post
MS deserves every bit of venom they get spit their way. They've offered products and services over the years that were unintuitive and problem riddled, creating a whole new market for companies that were set up just to fix MS's problems. They were and still are more of a behemoth than Apple is - even if Apple has more cash and dollars earned.

Frankly I don't know why so many people keep defending MS - they haven't exactly been a saintly company over the years and for those that harp on Apple because they're "so big, so popular" while supporting MS, it's a little hypocritical don't you think?

I've been around computers for a long time - my first computer class was a punch card computer class to give you an idea. My first word processing experience was on my university's mainframe computer system, which was a horrid user experience, given it was not WYSIWYG. When I first used a 1984 Apple Macintosh, I can remember saying to my then roommate who had the Mac, that this is how typing should be, given it was one of the first real WYSIWYG word processing computers out there.

MS, for those not old enough to realize this, has been "borrowing" Apple ideas and designs for decades. I can remember MS blatantly copying menus and file images from Apple back in the late 80's and early 90's - because they could. Apple, because they waffled on the idea of licensing their software, ended up getting passed by MS simply because of the quantity of PC's coming to market made Apple's pitiful couple of models non-competitive.

So before you think all Apple fans hate MS for some unknown reason, be aware that there is more to the story than you think.
My first "real" computer (not the Commodore Vic20 that was my first home computer) was an Olivetti M24 powered by an Intel 8086 .... wow, ages ago

You have my vote !
I don't hate MS, but there are plenty of reasons to blame them ...
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 09:48 AM   #148
curmudgeon32
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Now that would be awesome!

Maybe export to a self-contained HTML5 show that can be run from any compliant browser?
There actually IS an an HTML export option, but that's a lot less portable than a single file, and I believe it requires Safari to run, and almost nobody in the PC world runs Safari. I had my web guy look at the output and he said there was a whole lot of weird custom stuff in the HTML that would make it really hard to embed in our company's website.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 09:23 PM   #149
Fukui
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Originally Posted by Quin22cy View Post
It is just to lacking in programability and as such needs a built in scripting environment.
THIS x 1000.
This is exactly what iWork needs.
That and vastly improved graphs and performance improvements.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 10:05 AM   #150
MAFAv8r
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How about working on and releasing new desktop versions of iPhoto and the rest of the iLife suite??
LOL, how many iPhoto updates have there been this year alone?
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