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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:37 PM   #151
Virinprew
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Originally Posted by yinz View Post
Agreed, that looks pretty ugly. iPhone 5 all day, I'm excited to hear about the 5S. I like the S models..
Same model? Just kidding.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:13 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Virinprew View Post
Same model? Just kidding.
It's not the same for me! I like how the S models are refined. That refinement is much more satisfying than the glorified numbered models. Maybe theyll call it the iPhone 5R. R for refined.

*sorry for the lame Honda reference if people didn't get it.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:17 PM   #153
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Then what did the S in the 3GS stand for? Steve was alive and well when that was released, wasn't he?
Steve himself said it stands for speed (3gs) cause they doubled the ram for the 3gs.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:18 PM   #154
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I agree.

By the looks of things, and in what has become very predictable move, Apple's retaining it's odd narrow, elongated display.

So much for progress. They can change the insides all they want, but no one cares. So much for innovation.

----------


S stands for...

It looks the Same.

Nothing new.
What the heck does screen size have to do with the most overused word of the year?

And how would iPhone 5 owners feel if a phone they just purchased 6 months ago (or probably less than that) had a completely new design with a larger display? There's a reason the 4th gen iPad looks just like the 3rd gen and not the iPad mini. Anyone who expects Apple to start reinventing the wheel every 6 months has something missing upstairs.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:23 PM   #155
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Hoping my 3GS lasts till the 5S is released.

I like being on the S train as they have time to fix all the kinks on the non S versions.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:42 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
That's Apple's (good) problem. They have to speed up the cycles. They used to be able to launch in just a few markets then gradually roll out the rest of the world to beat their revenue numbers quarter after quarter (every quarter, new markets would keep the revenues pouring in). Now they have to roll out to the rest of the world much faster to try to keep beating their revenue targets. And once they've rolled out to much of rest of the world, they have to roll something else out or realize the sales falloff for the period between when it's available everywhere to when the new one is ready to be sold.

In short, the slope of Apple's revenue growth is too steep to keep depending on the products they have to keep setting records. What Apple has been doing is speeding up distribution to new markets to pull what used to be future revenues (by staggering rollouts to new markets) into the present. The problem with this is as described above. Faster rollouts drives record revenues until Apple has rolled out just about everywhere. Then, Apple needs a new version to try to do the same thing again.

What Apple really needs is a next, next big thing... something new to sell to everyone that is not a new version (or size) of an existing "big thing". This model of pulling sales forward by rolling out to new markets can only go so far. Eventually, Apple collides with the limitation of launching today in all countries. A next big thing or two can shore up the revenue growth. But what will that next big thing(s) be?
OK, since you're such an expert, tell us what the next big thing in phones is that Apple should have, that ISN"T in the iPhone5.

The 4GPP roadmaps are publicly available. R11 (finalized in late 2012) is known, R12 is known approximately, R10 has chips being designed for it. What's in these releases?

(a) Lots of happy talk about bonding together more and more frequency bands to speed up HSPA+ and LTE. Nice --- but irrelevant until the telcos have the bands available. So that ain't gonna ship soon.

(b) A bunch of stuff on the TELCO side for improving networks. More SON (self-operating/organizing/optimizing network) --- basically a network that can configure itself rather than being manually configured. Better interference cancellation/avoidance. Inter- and intra-cell co-ordination to improve reception at cell edges. More use of micro, pico and femto cells. Nothing requiring changes in the phone.

(c) Optimistic projections about the use of 4 stream MIMO. This is the most interesting stuff; but it doesn't make sense to put it in the phone until the telcos support it, and I'm unaware that they have plans to do so --- right now they seem to have their hands full with basic LTE rollout.

So what do you imagine a better phone would do?
There are two obvious directions a phone could go today to stand out.

One would be to add a third diversity antenna for cell reception. I'd love to see Apple do this, but doing it well would require support in the chipset, which means it doesn't happen until Qualcomm wants it to happen. You could do it in a lame way, using a very crude metric to switch between two of the three antennas every ms or so. I would not be surprised to see the Android vendors do this soon; but Apple tends to avoid hacky solutions that offer bragging rights but only a minor improvement in performance, so I expect they'd wait until Qualcomm has a chip that handles the diversity.

Similarly, Apple could add a second WiFi antenna and double the WiFi throughput. I imagine this hand been avoided (by everyone) because of the extra power it would consume, so once again we're limited by what Broadcom is shipping. Once again, you could add a second diversity antenna and switch based on crude metrics. Once again, I'd expect to see that in Android before Apple.

Beyond that:
screen is good enough, camera is good enough, CPU and GPU are good enough. flash could do with a speed boost, but is basically good enough.
There just is nothing it makes sense to change before the usual update cycle.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:41 PM   #157
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Somehow you missed my point. The "next big thing"(s) I've suggested that are needed are not new versions of existing big things... that is, not a new phone, tablet, pod or computer. I'm talking about Apple needing a new next big thing that is not any of those existing big things... a new leg of the table.

How you can read (and quote) a line like: "What Apple really needs is a next, next big thing... something new to sell to everyone that is not a new version (or size) of an existing "big thing" and think I'm suggesting Apple needs a new iPhone model is beyond me.

The rumor mill has long suggested an Apple-branded Television but I don't think that's it. It's hard to imagine an Apple Television being the kind of "big thing" on par with the impacts of iPod, iPhone, and iPad as next big things... especially when the software half of the big innovation is likely to also be available for ANY HDTV in the form of a new TV. If a new TV would bring most/all of the software experience to any HDTV (including those we already have), all that left is how pretty the Apple Television hardware would be. It would be like being able to buy iOS or OS X and run it on anyone's hardware. I just don't see it (as a real "next big thing" with iPod, iPhone, and iPad-like legs).

So what would it be? I don't know. But if you look at the slope of revenue growth (very steep) and you look at the tricks Apple is using to keep it up (booking more and more revenues in the present by rolling out to more countries faster than ever before), it should be obvious that such tricks can only work for so long. As soon as Cook is pitching "available today worldwide" the impact of that trick is up (one global surge of revenues and then most everyone that wants one has one before the end of a quarter). Apple will need to chase all that accelerated demand with something entirely new to get them to open their wallets again. That's unlikely to keep working by putting a new number on the end of an existing big thing's name or rolling out a different size of an existing big thing. What is does suggest is that new models will need to roll out faster if Apple doesn't have a few entirely new next big things to launch in 2013.

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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:42 PM   #158
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Please no iPhone 5S Apple. The little incremental revisions to get two years out of a model won't cut it anymore.

We need a radical, cutting-edge, more ergonomic, less fragile redesign. With two screen sizes offered, 4" and 5".

The 4s squeaked through and carried things along, a 5s will not.

The cut-throat mobile market needs revolution not evolution. That's how you keep the iPhone on top.

Still not sure I'm sold on this tall, thin 4" phone idea either. 4.3 and 4.8 could become the standards. Developers or someone may have to deal with solving fragmentation it creates.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:50 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Dwalls90 View Post
Why?

It's been made clear the 12-15 month cycle was too slow. I think we'll see new iDevices every 9 or less months from here on out to keep up.

I'd rather see a NEW iPhone 6, 7, 8, ect. every year, and an "S" as a halfway mark upgrade.
You're not the only one according to this poll I ran a while ago (after all the complaining when the 4th gen iPad came out to be specific!) Note that 6 months or less gets 37.5% of the overall vote.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1473928
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:52 PM   #160
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When you have a group of customers, who have such empty lives, that they will camp out for a sell phone, you see money. So you cater to them.
Says the guy making the comment
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:58 PM   #161
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As I see it, there's truly good news here. The sooner this upcoming model is released, the sooner Apples on to the next one.

If there's any chance Apple may catch up to Samsung & include a modern sized display, 2014 may be the year.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 01:10 AM   #162
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This is not the new 5s case everyone knows the next one will be even taller
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 01:58 AM   #163
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I have a 4S I bought off contract after selling my 4 and have the upgrade sitting...but I've been very content with my 4S. I had a feeling the 5S rumors would start up at some point, but not this early. Now that I'm on the "S" upgrade cycle, I suppose it isn't very detrimental, seeing that the 4S and 5 (even the 4 to an extent) are still wonderful devices. Truly, what I'm waiting on is a revamped iOS, and I'm excited Ive has taken over. What his team can do with the 4" screen could prove to be very dope, and us 4S users could be primed to upgrade.

Still fully expect Apple to stick with the fall release, even with stiff competition. The iP5 is not gonna slouch in sales with release in new markets, prepaid carriers picking it up soon, and many folks' upgrades coming up monthly...
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 02:31 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
.....Given that the origin of the photos is unknown, it is certainly possible that this part is an old iPhone 5 prototype design that was discarded in favor of the design that was ultimately used. Alternatively, the part could also be a fake or a knockoff, although at a glance the part seems to show similar levels of quality to that seen on the genuine iPhone 5 part and a knockoff part intended to be used for replacement on iPhone 5 devices would be certain to retain the arrangement of logic board screw holes.....Article Link: First Claimed Images of iPhone 5S Rear Shell Surface
A dis-information campaign by APPLE's competitors perhaps, to dissuade potential iPhone5 purchasers from buying NOW, and holding out for that next-generation model?
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:03 AM   #165
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I hope they blow everyone's minds and make the iPhone 6 in the shape of a triangle.

Because triangle, that's why.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 05:27 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Chocolatemilty View Post
I have a 4S I bought off contract after selling my 4 and have the upgrade sitting...but I've been very content with my 4S. I had a feeling the 5S rumors would start up at some point, but not this early. Now that I'm on the "S" upgrade cycle, I suppose it isn't very detrimental, seeing that the 4S and 5 (even the 4 to an extent) are still wonderful devices. Truly, what I'm waiting on is a revamped iOS, and I'm excited Ive has taken over. What his team can do with the 4" screen could prove to be very dope, and us 4S users could be primed to upgrade.
This.

I'm happy with my 4S and will use it till the wheels fall off the device or there's a really good reason to upgrade (like apps actually pushing the hardware to its limits).

I'm more excited about the next iOS than the next piece of iPhone hardware.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 05:33 AM   #167
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I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes an "early-middle 2013" arrival. Maybe in May or even April. Apple knows it can't go beyond 12 months without letting competition gain market ground. Going by tick-tock development, they could push for 6-month releases of iPhones and iPads to squeeze out almost all other competitors by having the most advanced iDevices at the Apple's higher prices.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 05:45 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Lesser Evets View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes an "early-middle 2013" arrival. Maybe in May or even April. Apple knows it can't go beyond 12 months without letting competition gain market ground. Going by tick-tock development, they could push for 6-month releases of iPhones and iPads to squeeze out almost all other competitors by having the most advanced iDevices at the Apple's higher prices.
This strategy could backfire in the long run.

Release the devices too close to the last one and it takes away luster and excitement from the prolonged build-up of anticipation.

Apple would run the risk of Android devices by seeming ho-hum.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 05:46 AM   #169
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although at a glance the part seems to show similar levels of quality to that seen on the genuine iPhone 5 part
Are you kidding me lmao its a friggin cell phone pic
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 07:11 AM   #170
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This strategy could backfire in the long run.

Release the devices too close to the last one and it takes away luster and excitement from the prolonged build-up of anticipation.

Apple would run the risk of Android devices by seeming ho-hum.
I agree. I'm certainly less likely to buy Apple products if they increase their releases to every 6 months. Especially for the asking prices of their products as well as phone contract limitations.

I think they've made some terrible moves recently:
- Lightning adapter and their cornering of consumers to force them to have to buy spares from Apple themselves. This alone has kept me from buying the latest generation devices.
- iTunes 11, so simple a monkey can use it...in exchange of removing essential features to some.
- iPod Mini with its intentionally outdated hardware
- iPad 4 pissed iPad 3 users off (made me mad initially, over it now), a up to $900 device should definitely be current for longer than 6 months. They shouldn't have even bothered to release their apparently half-baked idea of the iPad 3.

The anticipation is what is exciting about Apple products, they remove this if they start a 6 month product cycle.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 07:22 AM   #171
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Thumb resize.

If only ;-)


Actually I think iOS 7 is going to be the bigger deal than the next iPhone itself.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by iEvolution View Post
- iPad Mini with its intentionally outdated hardware
Which actually runs the latest graphically intensive games like runs Modern Combat 4 with more post filters and effects (motion blur and DOF) than the iPad 4. Not bad for 'outdated' technology.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 08:19 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by kockgunner View Post
There was a 3GS after the 3G where the S stood for speed. It has become a marker for an improved model that looks the same as the previous gen.

I don't like this faster release cycle because I haven't even had the time to get a proper iPhone 5 yet. I still have an open case with Apple after my first one had dust under the screen; the second one had a horrible interlacing screen and was dented; the third also had an interlacing screen and a camera lens with at least 50 particles of dust; the forth was a new retail box from China it but can't connect to LTE or 3G for more than a minute and defaults to Edge or GPRS, the camera can't turn on and has pink lines or huge rectangle covering the preview area, and has a screen that's pushed up from underneath creating very uneven backlighting.

I don't even feel like I have a phone that's mine yet since I know I have to get it replaced. I just asked for a refund because something is wrong if I can't get a normal phone after 4 tries so we'll see what the support tech says.
You're the reason they're developing a new phone: to get the kinks out of the manufacturing process.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
That's true... a PERSON only buys a new phone once every 2 years.

But PEOPLE buy cell phones every single day.

You can pick any day on the calendar... and there are millions of people ready to upgrade.

In other words.... someone would be ready to buy any new phone Apple offered at any given time.
Thank you! People get so self absorbed in forums and fail to understand that Apple didn't build their business model catering to 5 hipsters and their cousins and girlfriends. As Apple grew into a consumer electronics company with the success of the iPod, dropping 'Computer' from the name and such, they had to balance their California-centric approach with a global outlook to sustain their growth. This is what I believe Tim, Eddy and co. are attempting to do with each of their products, hence the attenna redesign b/w the 4 to 4S, the delay of LTE until the 5 and so on.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 10:28 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by name99 View Post
OK, since you're such an expert, tell us what the next big thing in phones is that Apple should have, that ISN"T in the iPhone5.

The 4GPP roadmaps are publicly available. R11 (finalized in late 2012) is known, R12 is known approximately, R10 has chips being designed for it. What's in these releases?

(a) Lots of happy talk about bonding together more and more frequency bands to speed up HSPA+ and LTE. Nice --- but irrelevant until the telcos have the bands available. So that ain't gonna ship soon.

(b) A bunch of stuff on the TELCO side for improving networks. More SON (self-operating/organizing/optimizing network) --- basically a network that can configure itself rather than being manually configured. Better interference cancellation/avoidance. Inter- and intra-cell co-ordination to improve reception at cell edges. More use of micro, pico and femto cells. Nothing requiring changes in the phone.

(c) Optimistic projections about the use of 4 stream MIMO. This is the most interesting stuff; but it doesn't make sense to put it in the phone until the telcos support it, and I'm unaware that they have plans to do so --- right now they seem to have their hands full with basic LTE rollout.

So what do you imagine a better phone would do?
There are two obvious directions a phone could go today to stand out.

One would be to add a third diversity antenna for cell reception. I'd love to see Apple do this, but doing it well would require support in the chipset, which means it doesn't happen until Qualcomm wants it to happen. You could do it in a lame way, using a very crude metric to switch between two of the three antennas every ms or so. I would not be surprised to see the Android vendors do this soon; but Apple tends to avoid hacky solutions that offer bragging rights but only a minor improvement in performance, so I expect they'd wait until Qualcomm has a chip that handles the diversity.

Similarly, Apple could add a second WiFi antenna and double the WiFi throughput. I imagine this hand been avoided (by everyone) because of the extra power it would consume, so once again we're limited by what Broadcom is shipping. Once again, you could add a second diversity antenna and switch based on crude metrics. Once again, I'd expect to see that in Android before Apple.

Beyond that:
screen is good enough, camera is good enough, CPU and GPU are good enough. flash could do with a speed boost, but is basically good enough.
There just is nothing it makes sense to change before the usual update cycle.



Look at the Nokia 920 and then try to beat it.

Wireless charging, screen sensitive enough for touch with gloves on, NFC, awesome night camera (aka optical stabilization). Change the body design from just white and black. Improve durability so you DONT need to buy a cover every single time you buy an iphone.

There is PLENTY of stuff apple can work on, "just good enough" sounds like a lazy excuse for any company.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 01:12 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by damitssam View Post


Look at the Nokia 920 and then try to beat it.

Wireless charging, screen sensitive enough for touch with gloves on, NFC, awesome night camera (aka optical stabilization). Change the body design from just white and black. Improve durability so you DONT need to buy a cover every single time you buy an iphone.

There is PLENTY of stuff apple can work on, "just good enough" sounds like a lazy excuse for any company.
I guess that's the difference between you and me.

Wireless charging strikes me as completely pointless.

NFC is a solution looking for a problem.

Is the night camera ACTUALLY awesome, or just the faked videos of it? (That's snark, yes, but also serious. The last I heard about it was about the fakes, and I've not encountered anything since then indicating it's truly spectacular.)

I live in LA, so the gloves business doesn't affect me, but sure, that's a genuine point. Though I don't know what the tradeoffs there are, for example in higher power use, or maybe you can't fuse the touchscreen and the LCD?

So yeah --- there is scope for improvement in the camera via optical stabilization, and in a touchscreen usable by gloves. Are those worthy of the hysteria surrounding the idea of a 6 month update? I don't think so.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 02:25 PM   #175
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Wireless charging strikes me as completely pointless.
While you may not see or understand the benefits of it just yet, once it's adopted by more manufacturers the advantages will be obvious. Wireless charging most certainly has a place in the near future.
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