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Old Dec 6, 2012, 02:54 AM   #76
tech4all
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Originally Posted by itjw View Post
I know one thing for certain, there are PLENTY of flawed iPhone USERS...
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So what ? The fact it's the most expensive phone on the market. The fact that that its 529 (in the UK) and for that price you expect a product that's flawless when out the box
I bet I know your favorite land at Disneyland...Fantasyland.

NOTHING is perfect. If you think 100% of iPhone's will be come out of the factory 100% flawless, you need a reality check.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 06:12 AM   #77
John T
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Originally Posted by tech4all View Post
NOTHING is perfect. If you think 100% of iPhone's will be come out of the factory 100% flawless, you need a reality check.
Good point! People who keep on about expecting flawless quality etc forget that the iPhone et al. are mass produced - by the millions.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 06:42 AM   #78
Nale72
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Good point! People who keep on about expecting flawless quality etc forget that the iPhone et al. are mass produced - by the millions.
So you're saying that because Apple produce & sell so many iPhones, we should expect them to have worse build quality/finish than, say, an HTC, Sony or Samsung phone? Because I've been a owner of all four and frequented those forums also. I have never before read this many posts/complaints of damaged/flawed phones right out of the boxes as about the iPhone 5.

Thank you for clarifying that this is what should be expected from an Apple product.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 06:49 AM   #79
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Good point! People who keep on about expecting flawless quality etc forget that the iPhone et al. are mass produced - by the millions.
Yeah. No matter how Apple introduce the way they design and produce the iPhone 5 in their keynote, I'm still not so sure about their manufacturing plants in China. With those kind of sucky working conditions, there're bound to be hastily and shabbily-made iPhone 5.

Apple should do something about it. But they aren't bothering one bit.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 09:06 AM   #80
bjcskier
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There are SOME perfect iPhone 5 devices out there. I had one on day 1 - it was a 32GB Sprint black iPhone 5 that I had preordered. I was pumped.

Ended up switching to Verizon and the scuff problems began. I went through several exchanges and finally settled because it's virtually impossible to get one that doesn't have any issues.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 09:21 AM   #81
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Got mine through Verizon back on October 17.

Black, 16 GB.

It was perfectly fine and still is to this day. I bought a "Kay's Case" online for $12. The case is thin and does the job.

I haven't had any complaints about my iPhone 5, which by the way is the first iPhone I've ever owned.

The battery for me has been very good. The only issue I have with the battery is when I use the TuneIn Radio app. I use this app most of the day while at work. This app is spectacular as I can listen to an AM sports talk radio station from a city that is over 2 hours away. The only problem is that this app absolutlely KILLS the battery. That said, I just use the power cord to charge the phone during the day while listening. Outside of that app, general usage (calls, email, twitter, facebook, internet) easily last me an entire day on the LTE. I ususally wait until I get to work the next day to start charging.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 10:05 AM   #82
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But they said: "Designed with an unprecedented level of precision, iPhone 5 combines an anodized aluminum body with diamond cut chamfered edges and glass inlays for a truly incredible fit and finish."

When phones out of the box come with clicking displays and in some cases several scratches and flakes out of the aluminium, I don't believe this meet what Apple say their iPhone 5 should be like.

If you need a microscope or magnifying glass or have to look in certain light or angle I agree that you can't say much about it.
Right. Thanks for proving my point. YOU don't believe that meets what Apple described. it's 100% subjective. You think that because they said it was very well made that that equates to "It is 100% flawless, all the time every time, without exception, ever... 100% perfection, we promise".

I think it IS very well made, very high precision, mine had NO issues at all, and of the ones I have seen with "problems" most seem to involve a tiny cosmetic nick in the edge of the phone. There ARE a handful of legitimate issues, but the VAST majority are just whining, entitled, OCD people with the attitude of "because I spent (insert ANY dollar amount) it MUST be perfect... Apple said so (even though they most certainly did NOT)".

You can expect whatever you want. When products don't live up to expectations they don't sell millions upon millions, with waits of WEEKS just to get one. If it doesn't meet your expectations: BUY SOMETHING ELSE THAT DOES!!!

If you think that aluminum was a poor choice because in addition to being lighter, thinner, and not shattering/cracking it scratches easier then FINE. Maybe it's not the phone for you...

But if you really believe that SGS3 is "flawless" out of the box, I have some bad news for you... put it through the same analysis you do the iP5, and you find just as many "flaws". Head on over to the Samsung forum and talk to the 15 users there if you don't believe me (just kidding... I know there are hundreds of Samsung users ).
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 10:57 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by tech4all View Post
Book Worthy



I bet I know your favorite land at Disneyland...Fantasyland.

NOTHING is perfect. If you think 100% of iPhone's will be come out of the factory 100% flawless, you need a reality check.
I wish Oh I wish I had more customers like you guys that buy a 700 euro product and dont expect it to be without scratches or defects.

PS sorry for picking on just one of you! but this post is meant for everyone that accepts a product that is not 100 scratch-less.

As a retailer I have never heard so much rubbish from so many kids. Yap Kids, your either shareholders that dont want to loose money, being paid by Apple or Kids! the only way I can fathom how someone says so much ****
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 11:32 AM   #84
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I think what he mean't was that he realised that in the grand scheme of things, he wondered why he spent the time to stress about small cosmetic issues, given that it is a disposable gadget that will become obsolete in a relatively short amount of time.
Exactly what I meant!

For me the iPhone I bought when it was first released was flawless. My gut feeling tells me that this is the case for most people. Yet there are claims that most iPhones are scratched from the factory. We'll never get to the bottom of this without some scientific sampling.

But assume for the moment that the claim of most iPhones being scratched out of the factory is true. What shall we make of it?

Well, regardless of what you expect of Apple, that is the reality. As a consumer, what can you do?

Do you spend a lot of time and effort locating one that's flawless? If you do, do you ever stop and ask yourself why? Does geting rid of that one scratch make you that much happier, and for how long? Comparing that to accepting the scratch and be happy with it. At this point, I am not talking about Apple anymore, but rather about you and what you would rather do with your time.

The comment about replacing iPhone with Walkman is to put thing in perspective. Yes, these shiny objects will become dull in time. I know there are photographers who obsess about the flaws in their camera and spent a lot of their energy trying to get rid of these flaws, and there are those who take wonderful photos despite of those flaws in their equipment. Would you rather be a camera geek or a photographer? The choice is yours, not the camera company.

We are talking about "scratches" which many people will cover with a case, and if they don't, chances are there will be more scratches as they use their phone.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 11:53 AM   #85
josh995
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Well... I'm confident in saying that both my iPhone 5s are flawless.

One black 64GB and one white 16GB.

Neither of them has a single scratch, and trust me, I looked. Neither have had any wifi issues, neither has had the Verizon data problem. No loose buttons, no rattles, no bent metal back, no weird lines in the screen, nothing.

I'd say both of mine are as perfect as you can get.

Side note: Anyone who says the 4 and 4S outshines the iPhone 5... all I have to say is LOL OK...!

Last edited by josh995; Dec 6, 2012 at 11:59 AM.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 01:28 PM   #86
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I know there are perfect iPhone5's out there, I've seen multiple. I've also seen multiple scratched, dented, scuffed or with bad WiFi chips. I also know that Apple agrees with me that their phones should come to me flawless, they've said so multiple times and the most high up people I spoke to went out of their way to stress that they are aware of the issues and are working on fixing it.

I don't think aluminium was a bad choice, it's a great metal and adds to the great design and feel of the iPhone 5. I do believe however that there are problems in the production process. All the scuffs, scratches and dents I've seen looked like the metal suffered some pretty real damage from another "metal" part.

I just feel a lot of posters are looking for arguments to justify their purchase or their choice of keeping the iPhone even if it's damaged. Apple must be glad with you people or they would have a much bigger problem. I'm just glad Apple offered to swap me a new one in January, when they hope to have adressed and fixed the problems in the production process. I can keep using my (scratched and dented) iPhone5 until then and get a shiny (and hopefully flawless) new one in January.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 10:27 PM   #87
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Totally pathetic!
I was just telling you my story. A little harsh maybe?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekelani View Post
My only issue with my iPhone 5 is the battery life. Besides that its fine. But not FLAWLESS
Oddly enough the phone I have has super-human err... super-phone battery life. I haven't charged it in 2 days and it still says 90%. I'm starting to wonder if the battery meter is wrong.

----------

[QUOTE=itjw;16437712]Right. Thanks for proving my point. YOU don't believe that meets what Apple described. it's 100% subjective. You think that because they said it was very well made that that equates to "It is 100% flawless, all the time every time, without exception, ever... 100% perfection, we promise".

No, I don't think anyone thinks this. Nothing mass produced is 100% perfect but 5 out 5 phones all not perfect? Com'on man. Apple has over-promised and under-delivered when it comes to the iPhone 5. All of my other Apple products were wonderful, right out of the box.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 03:47 AM   #88
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[QUOTE=richard13;16441890]I was just telling you my story. A little harsh maybe?

----------



Oddly enough the phone I have has super-human err... super-phone battery life. I haven't charged it in 2 days and it still says 90%. I'm starting to wonder if the battery meter is wrong.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by itjw View Post
Right. Thanks for proving my point. YOU don't believe that meets what Apple described. it's 100% subjective. You think that because they said it was very well made that that equates to "It is 100% flawless, all the time every time, without exception, ever... 100% perfection, we promise".

No, I don't think anyone thinks this. Nothing mass produced is 100% perfect but 5 out 5 phones all not perfect? Com'on man. Apple has over-promised and under-delivered when it comes to the iPhone 5. All of my other Apple products were wonderful, right out of the box.
You can't be serious? For two days and it says 90%?? How is that even possible?
Have you been using your iPhone throughout that day or leaving it idol ??
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 04:53 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Sekelani View Post
You can't be serious? For two days and it says 90%?? How is that even possible?
Have you been using your iPhone throughout that day or leaving it idol ??
Its nothing but the truth, he loses only 10% every 2 days. the battery will be drained in next 18 days. not bad for a phone that needs to be charged once every 3 weeks.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 05:00 AM   #90
Brian Y
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You do realise that 99.9.. % of iPhone 5's are perfect from the box. Some people look for issues, and granted, some *will* come out of the box with problems. The difference is that Apple will get it sorted for you if there is a problem - without question. Granted, if you have 5 phone swaps in such a short space of time, you're obviously expecting more than the iPhone can do - and tbh, I'd have just offered you a refund, said "Look, maybe this isn't for you" - I wouldn't have wasted so many products, and I think it's unfair to expect Apple to do so.

What you need to remember is that you cannot expect perfection from a 500 mass produced item. If you want a guaranteed perfect phone, have somebody commissioned to make you one. But I bet it'll cost you a damn sight more than 500!
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 05:30 AM   #91
Sekelani
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Originally Posted by luckyarcher View Post
Its nothing but the truth, he loses only 10% every 2 days. the battery will be drained in next 18 days. not bad for a phone that needs to be charged once every 3 weeks.
I mean if he is not using his iPhone that is possible. But if he is then its not
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 06:36 AM   #92
Nale72
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You do realise that 99.9.. % of iPhone 5's are perfect from the box.
Source on that please?

*edit, added the below poll info*

The polls on this forum, which I agree are not statistical secure, but nevertheless should at least give us a hint about it seems to differ. According to these:

31% (out of 181 replies) have had clicking displays out of the box

33% (out of 2348) buyers of black iP5 have received phones scuffed out of the box

Once again, I understand that this doesn't mean that the same figures apply to all iPhone 5 sold. But I believe that they hint that the problem is a lott bigger than under 0,01...% of the units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bma View Post
Some people look for issues, and granted, some *will* come out of the box with problems. The difference is that Apple will get it sorted for you if there is a problem - without question.
The difference compared to what? If a product comes out of the box with a problem, may it be cosmetic or functional I can't believe any store/seller would deny you from exchanging it with a new unit - wihout question. At least that is how things normally work here in Sweden. Although I have to admit I can't remember ever getting a product out of the box noticing a cometic defect like a scratch or flaking like several iP5 buyers seem to have gotten now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bma View Post
Granted, if you have 5 phone swaps in such a short space of time, you're obviously expecting more than the iPhone can do - and tbh, I'd have just offered you a refund, said "Look, maybe this isn't for you" - I wouldn't have wasted so many products, and I think it's unfair to expect Apple to do so.
If the product is working and the way Apple (and their resellers) intended it to be like new out of the box I agree. But if it's anything less and there are units that do live up to those standards, I can't see why someone cashing out $900 for a premium phone in mint condition shouldn't get just that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bma View Post
What you need to remember is that you cannot expect perfection from a 500 mass produced item. If you want a guaranteed perfect phone, have somebody commissioned to make you one. But I bet it'll cost you a damn sight more than 500!
Agree, maybe not perfection, but I don't believe (and as far as I have heard and read, Apple and their resellers agree with me) you shouldn't expect that it should come dented, scratched, flaked or with clicking displays and ceratainly not get accused of being picky if you don't accept a unit like that.

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Old Dec 7, 2012, 08:14 AM   #93
Brian Y
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Originally Posted by Nale72 View Post
Source on that please?

*edit, added the below poll info*

The polls on this forum, which I agree are not statistical secure, but nevertheless should at least give us a hint about it seems to differ. According to these:

31% (out of 181 replies) have had clicking displays out of the box

33% (out of 2348) buyers of black iP5 have received phones scuffed out of the box

Once again, I understand that this doesn't mean that the same figures apply to all iPhone 5 sold. But I believe that they hint that the problem is a lott bigger than under 0,01...% of the units.



The difference compared to what? If a product comes out of the box with a problem, may it be cosmetic or functional I can't believe any store/seller would deny you from exchanging it with a new unit - wihout question. At least that is how things normally work here in Sweden. Although I have to admit I can't remember ever getting a product out of the box noticing a cometic defect like a scratch or flaking like several iP5 buyers seem to have gotten now.



If the product is working and the way Apple (and their resellers) intended it to be like new out of the box I agree. But if it's anything less and there are units that do live up to those standards, I can't see why someone cashing out $900 for a premium phone in mint condition shouldn't get just that.



Agree, maybe not perfection, but I don't believe (and as far as I have heard and read, Apple and their resellers agree with me) you shouldn't expect that it should come dented, scratched, flaked or with clicking displays and ceratainly not get accused of being picky if you don't accept a unit like that.
I don't have any sources I can give you - since as you well know such a source does not exist, but I do know that the % returned compared to those sold is minimal. And as for forum statistics/polls - polls on a forum are in no way representative of the population.

If you consider the sheer volume of iPhones sold, 0.1% isn't hard to believe as a guess (just on launch weekend, for example, they sold 5M - and they'd have to see > 5000 DOA that weekend alone for the failure rate to be that high).

I'm not saying there aren't problems with the phone - but the majority of problems we see here on MacRumors are picky users. For example, the "clicking screen syndrome" in that poll - due to the way the phone is built, there may always be some play in the screen (the iPhone 3g/3gs were built in the same way and had the same thing). Different phones will display different levels of this, due to manufacturing tolerances (getting this kind of detail perfect on these production levels would take ages and bump the cost up massively).
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 08:15 AM   #94
naisdes
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My iPhone has a flaw also!

It doesn't last a week on a single charge
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 08:51 AM   #95
Nale72
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My iPhone has a flaw also!

It doesn't last a week on a single charge
Not the best attempt trying to be funny I think. I don't think you can compare expecting a modern smartphone to last a week on a single charge with expecting the most expensive smartphone on the market not being scratched/flaked, new right out of the box.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 08:51 AM   #96
vampyr
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Originally Posted by MattMJB0188 View Post
There is NO such thing as a flawless iphone 5. No one has one.
LOL! That's not true... I had a flawless iPhone 5. Absolutely nothing was wrong with it... absolutely PERFECT.

But I decided to take the wrapping off the box and open it. Flawless no more....
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 09:06 AM   #97
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Only had to replace once due to clicky screen, but second one seems flawless.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 10:01 AM   #98
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We've got a pair of flawless iPhone 5s---black 64 and a white 64--no issues out of box...no problems to date. We (my bride n I) couldn't be happier with the new iPhone. Beautiful design, faster than computers I owned just a couple years back--LTE is beyond fast--no WiFi challenges, excellent camera (both for still and motion!)...definitely a Big Upgrade for us---I came from the 4s, she from the 4.

They're out there, I feel for those that didn't receive a 'perfect' phone. Cool thing is, it's Apple. They'll make it right--and it's simple to exchange. Much, MUCH easier than any other manufacturer in this day and age

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Old Dec 7, 2012, 10:57 AM   #99
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So you're saying that because Apple produce & sell so many iPhones, we should expect them to have worse build quality/finish than, say, an HTC, Sony or Samsung phone? Because I've been a owner of all four and frequented those forums also. I have never before read this many posts/complaints of damaged/flawed phones right out of the boxes as about the iPhone 5.

Thank you for clarifying that this is what should be expected from an Apple product.
obviousness you haven't been to a nexus 4 forum

my black one came out of the box perfect and is still perfect
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 11:07 AM   #100
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I wish Oh I wish I had more customers like you guys that buy a 700 euro product and dont expect it to be without scratches or defects.

PS sorry for picking on just one of you! but this post is meant for everyone that accepts a product that is not 100 scratch-less.

As a retailer I have never heard so much rubbish from so many kids. Yap Kids, your either shareholders that dont want to loose money, being paid by Apple or Kids! the only way I can fathom how someone says so much ****
Major scratches and functional defects are one thing, but we're talking about literally "scuffs" so tiny that no one notices unless they are specifically looking for them (and sometimes it requires the right light, angle, and in some cases a magnifying glass... I'm serious... read the "scuffgate" thread).

I NEVER stated that you should accept anything with serious damage or functional issues, but I do 100% believe that there HAS to be a line where the "damage" is reasonably acceptable due to how tiny it is and how it in NO way effects the usage of the device.

If you really believe that anything (regardless of price) that is mass produced is "flawless", you clearly aren't using the same standard that the OCD crowd is applying to the iP5.
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