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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:45 AM   #76
JPOWA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirThis View Post
People here are missing the point. This only fixes the issue for some websites.

- The Verge is still choppy as are many other websites.
- Webkit crashes in double tap mode.
- Webkit slows down the UI frame rate (it's measureable). And no, it's not a memory leak. I did all the tests for that.

Bottom line: not ready for prime time.
In my case The Verge is as smooth as Facebook now! And as far as I now, more smooth and beautiful than any other Mac

And I tested it with HD4000
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:40 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirThis View Post
People here are missing the point. This only fixes the issue for some websites.

- The Verge is still choppy as are many other websites.
- Webkit crashes in double tap mode.
- Webkit slows down the UI frame rate (it's measureable). And no, it's not a memory leak. I did all the tests for that.

Bottom line: not ready for prime time.
How can this not be ready for prime time? I've used the Nightly build for two days now, and I have not encountered a single big bug or crash. The Verge runs pretty amooth as well.

Apple needs to push this out asap. I'd rather have a Safari that crashes three times a day with functional scrolling, than the rubbish version that is out now. Current Safari for retina MacBook Pro is so bad it's actually worse than iOS 6 Maps IMO, and they need to fix it no matter the costs.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 03:12 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CausticPuppy View Post
Umm, the 15" rMBP does not switch over to the discrete graphics every time you scroll down a web page.

Reviews like The Verge made comments that laggy/chopping scrolling were a hardware issue.

The article referenced in OP (did you read the article?) points to software optimization instead.

In fact, Anand's review of the 15" even stated that using the more powerful discrete chip didn't help browser scrolling much at all, because it is single-threaded-CPU dependent, rather than GPU dependent. If it's hardware issue, then why doesn't the much more powerful GPU help the browser scrolling/lagging?
I never said rMBP switches over to discrete graphics every time you scroll down a web page. what are you talking about?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:01 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by komodrone View Post
I never said rMBP switches over to discrete graphics every time you scroll down a web page. what are you talking about?
Title of the thread. If software fixes the issue, it wasn't a hardware problem to begin with.

Now what were YOU talking about with switching to discrete graphics, since it evidently didn't have anything to do with browser scrolling (the subject of this thread)?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:15 PM   #80
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I'm on a 2007 MBP and Safari has been a dog since I updated to ML.

I installed the Webkit build and it hasn't hung since, we'll see if it keeps up
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:33 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by CausticPuppy View Post
Title of the thread. If software fixes the issue, it wasn't a hardware problem to begin with.

Now what were YOU talking about with switching to discrete graphics, since it evidently didn't have anything to do with browser scrolling (the subject of this thread)?
I 'm not buying that, you can optimize the **** out of anything to make it run pretty well on any hardware, that's why we thought our pentium 1,2,3, 4 etc, power g2, g3 g4 etc. were screaming fast under some usage scenarios. That doesn't mean the underlying hardware doesn't have shortcomings.

I am about to buy a rmbp in a few days. Yet I am well aware I will be beta testing and getting hardware that's not equipped well to run the retina. Apple has had more than 2 years to optimize the os and basic apps for the retina. Although what with the way they do software development these days (they screw up that is) one could well suppose that they 've not done what they should have to get it right, one can equally suppose that they 've done whatever they could but the hardware was ultimately a bottleneck.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 02:59 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CausticPuppy View Post
Title of the thread. If software fixes the issue, it wasn't a hardware problem to begin with.

Now what were YOU talking about with switching to discrete graphics, since it evidently didn't have anything to do with browser scrolling (the subject of this thread)?
so non retina macbooks are smooth, but retina macbooks have slow scrolling, and that's not a hardware problem?

it's obvious that the intel HD graphics 4000 CAN'T HANDLE the amount of pixels for smooth scrolling. there's nothing wrong with the software. the software performs exactly how it's been designed to perform.

I didn't SAY it switches to discrete graphics, I said OSX switches to Intel HD graphics 4000 which is INTEGRATED graphics. Get your words straight. Ridiculous.

Last edited by komodrone; Dec 6, 2012 at 03:16 AM.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:53 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by komodrone View Post
so non retina macbooks are smooth, but retina macbooks have slow scrolling, and that's not a hardware problem?

it's obvious that the intel HD graphics 4000 CAN'T HANDLE the amount of pixels for smooth scrolling. there's nothing wrong with the software. the software performs exactly how it's been designed to perform.

I didn't SAY it switches to discrete graphics, I said OSX switches to Intel HD graphics 4000 which is INTEGRATED graphics. Get your words straight. Ridiculous.
It's not a hardware problem. It is a software problem. The Intel HD 4000 is much more GPU than a 9400m which could run a 2560x1600 30" ACD and its internal monitor at 1280x800 on a 13" Unibody MacBook without issue.

The fact that non-retina MacBooks are smooth shows even more this is a software problem.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 08:28 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by komodrone View Post
so non retina macbooks are smooth, but retina macbooks have slow scrolling, and that's not a hardware problem?
It's a HiDPI problem, which is a software problem. Windows running in Boot Camp on the very same hardware doesn not exhibit the same slow scrolling behavior. Therefore, not a hardware problem.

A software update has been shown to alleviate the slow scrolling. Software updates don't change the hardware.

Therefore, not a hardware problem.


There is absolutely nothing here to indicate that the hardware is too slow. Even systems many years ago, with much weaker GPU's, had no issues driving the same number of pixels (on the 30" Cinema Display).


The problem ONLY occurs when HiDPI mode is used, and based on the fact that it's fixed by SOFTWARE optimization, it points to an issue with the HiDPI implementation in SOFTWARE.


It's not a hardware problem. There's nothing at all to indicate it's a hardware problem. All the data points to a software issue, which has now been resolved via a software update, which doesn't change the hardware. The problem goes away on the same hardware, when running updated software. Therefore it cannot be a hardware problem.

How many different ways can I say this? It's not a hardware problem.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 12:31 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CausticPuppy View Post
How many different ways can I say this? It's not a hardware problem.
I don't know, if you find out tell me. I've been saying it for months now, and even put my money where my mouth is by buying a 15" rMBP (after being disappointed with the 13"'s spec, I went full blown 15", don't regret it).
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 01:57 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by PalacePlayers View Post
How can this not be ready for prime time? I've used the Nightly build for two days now, and I have not encountered a single big bug or crash. The Verge runs pretty amooth as well.
The Verge is incrementally better. But don't you see any lag whilst browsing MR with the Webkit? I've tried on several different Macs, and it's definitely there. Scrolling actually comes to a full stop and does nothing for 3-5 seconds whilst browsing the forum. This can happen once, twice, or constantly. It's not quite clear how or why it occurs.

I've also consistently been able to make the Webkit crash with The Verge (tried it on about 20 different Macs so far). Try this: go to The Verge, double tap (to zoom in), then push two fingers upwards to scroll. Odds are that you will get a non-stop beach ball. Sometimes the browser will 'give back the hand' after about 5 minutes, but most often the only solution will be to kill the process. Surely, I can't be the only one experiencing this. Two of the computers I tried this experiment with were brand new and only had the OS installed.

The ads on nyt.com also do not display properly. I can see an ad for an iMac and it keeps repeating itself (see cap below).

For me, it's not ready. But maybe others have different uses and won't encounter these problems.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:09 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CausticPuppy View Post
It's a HiDPI problem, which is a software problem. Windows running in Boot Camp on the very same hardware doesn not exhibit the same slow scrolling behavior. Therefore, not a hardware problem.

A software update has been shown to alleviate the slow scrolling. Software updates don't change the hardware.

Therefore, not a hardware problem.


There is absolutely nothing here to indicate that the hardware is too slow. Even systems many years ago, with much weaker GPU's, had no issues driving the same number of pixels (on the 30" Cinema Display).


The problem ONLY occurs when HiDPI mode is used, and based on the fact that it's fixed by SOFTWARE optimization, it points to an issue with the HiDPI implementation in SOFTWARE.


It's not a hardware problem. There's nothing at all to indicate it's a hardware problem. All the data points to a software issue, which has now been resolved via a software update, which doesn't change the hardware. The problem goes away on the same hardware, when running updated software. Therefore it cannot be a hardware problem.

How many different ways can I say this? It's not a hardware problem.
IT IS A HARDWARE PROBLEM. I took my retina macbook to Apple for an unrelated video issue. The genius booted up my macbook using I believe 10.6 or 10.7 (one that didn't support HiDPI). He changed the resolution to the maximum allowed (I don't remember the exact resolution, probably slightly less than native), and still Safari was sluggish in scrolling. He changed the resolution to 1920x1080 and it scrolled fine. Again, the operating system DIDN'T support HiDPI and yet it was sluggish. You can probably test this for yourself if you have an older OS disc lying around.

Again it's a HARDWARE PROBLEM. Since we can't replace the components inside our MBP, software workarounds are needed. Software is functioning 100% normal.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
It's not a hardware problem. It is a software problem. The Intel HD 4000 is much more GPU than a 9400m which could run a 2560x1600 30" ACD and its internal monitor at 1280x800 on a 13" Unibody MacBook without issue.

The fact that non-retina MacBooks are smooth shows even more this is a software problem.
I had a 2009 13" unibody macbook running 1920x1080 on an external monitor WITH 9400m. it couldn't scroll smoothy in Safari.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 02:08 PM   #88
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Weird. My rMBP was choppy before installing the latest WebKit and now it is smooth... Well, until I installed the latest version today... Slowed it down a little bit. My HTML test was initially showing 378, then it went to 388 with the latest build, now back to 381.
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