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Old Dec 8, 2012, 09:35 PM   #51
Daveoc64
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Multitasking: The simultaneous execution of more than one program or task by a single computer processor.
Perfect.

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iOS developers can use any of the resources available to them to have any of their applications fit the definition.
No they can't. The post above yours is one of the best examples of this. IM applications cannot run in the background using any of the available APIs.

email Apps are another good example. They can't check for new email in the background. You need to rely on a server to send a push notification (which is costly and has security implications).

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You say that the fast app switching API doesn't provide multitasking abilities
I say that because it doesn't fit the definition of Multitasking that we and everyone else in the universe believes in.

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But still, what good is it to have a weather app running constantly in the background in a running state? How about a game? There's no reason why those apps need to be in a running state.
I never said that those Apps needed it or that the default should be to run 24/7. I also did not say that the idea of suspending Apps is bad feature.

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The simple answer to the OP's question will always lead back to one answer, no matter how it's looked at; battery life. Apple doesn't want to sacrifice battery life, which in turn becomes a user's experience of the device, for non-iOS multitasking like process control.
While it's true that Apple wants to preserve battery life, they said that when they weren't allowing third party Apps on iOS. They also said it when they didn't allow multitasking at all.

Over time, I hope that they introduce more flexibility in allowing developers to do things that customers want.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 09:41 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Daveoc64 View Post
No they can't. The post above yours is one of the best examples of this. IM applications cannot run in the background using any of the available APIs.
Task completion and/or push notifications. Facebook Message, AIM, and Skype all use one or the other.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 09:43 PM   #53
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Task completion and/or push notifications. Facebook Message, AIM, and Skype all use one or the other.
But they're not running in the background, so they run into the problems that "Dr McKay" mentioned.

You can work around the limitations of Multitasking on iOS, but that does not give you Multitasking.

Facebook etc. use these things because they have no alternative.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 09:44 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Daveoc64 View Post
But they're not running in the background, so they run into the problems that "Dr McKay" mentioned.

You can work around the limitations of Multitasking on iOS, but that does not give you Multitasking.
Task completion lets them run in the background.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 09:44 PM   #55
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Task completion lets them run in the background.
For a maximum of 10 minutes - that's not a solution.

It's also technically a violation of the App Store Guidelines.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 09:49 PM   #56
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For a maximum of 10 minutes - that's not a solution.

It's also technically a violation of the App Store Guidelines.
It's still been done and apps like it still make it into the store. Another thing I've seen done is people purposely put bad code into their app so that iOS can't pause it or kill it without user intervention. While said apps do get stuck in a loop, they stay alive until force killed or brought back into focus.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 09:54 PM   #57
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It's still been done and apps like it still make it into the store.
Maybe so, but it does not solve the key issues:

1) Who would want an email or IM App that can only receive messages for up to 10 minutes?

2) You're using something that Apple could turn around and say "oops, that's not allowed any more - REJECTED".


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Another thing I've seen done is people purposely put bad code into their app so that iOS can't pause it or kill it without user intervention. While said apps do get stuck in a loop, they stay alive until force killed or brought back into focus.
Excellent solution! Not.

The fact is that there are things that you just can't do properly on iOS at the moment. Until Apple changes its policies, that's going to remain.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:00 PM   #58
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iOS has multitasking. Is it multitasking in the traditional sense of the term? No. But it's efficient, and it does what it's supposed to do. I have never run into an issue with the system, sometimes it surprises me how good it is.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:29 PM   #59
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iOS has multitasking. Is it multitasking in the traditional sense of the term? No. But it's efficient, and it does what it's supposed to do. I have never run into an issue with the system, sometimes it surprises me how good it is.
It has been a little while since I have played with iOS, but in iOS5 and prior, web pages constantly had to refresh, games either paused or closed and required a restart, documents had to be reopened and so forth. There has never been true multi-tasking in iOS, unless this changed in iOS6. Occasionally, my Nex7 has to refresh a web page, but it never has to log back into a game (in fact I have left Dead Trigger on and logged in for 5 hours be accident, put my Nex 7 to sleep and when I opened the app, it was still going) or wait for a document to reopen. Of course, RAM is a significant part of this and one reason why my S3 never has to refresh.

If iOS6 has changed all this, I would like to know.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:43 PM   #60
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Those apps are using the appropriate APIs. .
Exactly. iOS is a multitasking OS, and developers who intend their apps to do something useful (playing audio, etc.) in the background can use the appropriate background APIs. That way apps that haven't been designed and tested for such by the developer won't burn battery life doing very often useless work that the developer didn't intend and where the user can't see.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:43 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by siiip5 View Post
It has been a little while since I have played with iOS, but in iOS5 and prior, web pages constantly had to refresh, games either paused or closed and required a restart, documents had to be reopened and so forth. There has never been true multi-tasking in iOS, unless this changed in iOS6. Occasionally, my Nex7 has to refresh a web page, but it never has to log back into a game (in fact I have left Dead Trigger on and logged in for 5 hours be accident, put my Nex 7 to sleep and when I opened the app, it was still going) or wait for a document to reopen. Of course, RAM is a significant part of this and one reason why my S3 never has to refresh.

If iOS6 has changed all this, I would like to know.
On my iPhone 4 I noticed it; on the 5, never.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:48 PM   #62
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State a flaw about iOS or a positive about android and people get defensive
And vice versa!
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:59 PM   #63
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On my iPhone 4 I noticed it; on the 5, never.
I would hazard to guess that the extra RAM might have something to do with that. Good to know, because that was one thing that I hated to no end. You type up a reply on a page and go to look at another web page tab, go back to finish your post and it is erased due to refresh.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 05:04 AM   #64
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Maybe so, but it does not solve the key issues:

1) Who would want an email or IM App that can only receive messages for up to 10 minutes?
Just have to use the right tools for the job, clearly push notifications should be used to pick up and notify the user of messages when the app is closed.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 05:05 AM   #65
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being able to run multiple apps at the same time is a GAME CHANGER for a smartphone. i can leave a web page open, have stock quotes update, pause a game without closing it, go from maps/directions/navigation (which actually works) back to an email with location information, back to an ongoing phone call, etc, etc
Which part doesn't work on iOS?

If you game is in the background, it's pause right?
You can have a phone conversation while your game is pause right?
You can have a phone conversation while your game is pause and still use navigation right?
You can check your email while having a phone conversation while your game is pause and still use navigation right?


So which part doesn't work again?
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 06:20 AM   #66
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Can an album from iTunes be downloading at the same time as one is surfing the web on an iPhone or is the download suspended until one goes back to iTunes on the phone? Similarly, can an app be downloaded while one is doing something else on an iPhone (playing a game for instance) or is that download suspended until one navigates back to the app store on one's iPhone. I ask the questions because I don't know the answer.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 06:46 AM   #67
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Can an album from iTunes be downloading at the same time as one is surfing the web on an iPhone or is the download suspended until one goes back to iTunes on the phone? Similarly, can an app be downloaded while one is doing something else on an iPhone (playing a game for instance) or is that download suspended until one navigates back to the app store on one's iPhone. I ask the questions because I don't know the answer.
In both cases, the album/app will continue to download in the background.

I'm not sure if the ten minute background rule applies to Apples own apps. It probably does, so that would mean that if it hadn't finished downloading after ten minutes in the background, you would have to go back into the app.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 06:49 AM   #68
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Can an album from iTunes be downloading at the same time as one is surfing the web on an iPhone or is the download suspended until one goes back to iTunes on the phone? Similarly, can an app be downloaded while one is doing something else on an iPhone (playing a game for instance) or is that download suspended until one navigates back to the app store on one's iPhone. I ask the questions because I don't know the answer.
Built in apps can multitask longer than 10 min as long as RAM is available. So yes, iTunes will keep downloading while doing other things. Same with the App Store downloads.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 07:05 AM   #69
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I would hazard to guess that the extra RAM might have something to do with that. Good to know, because that was one thing that I hated to no end. You type up a reply on a page and go to look at another web page tab, go back to finish your post and it is erased due to refresh.
That happened because iOs was freeing RAM. Since the 5 has more ram it doesn't happen.

It happens a lot with my iPhone 4 since besides a low ram I still have some jailbreak tweaks
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 07:10 AM   #70
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In both cases, the album/app will continue to download in the background.

I'm not sure if the ten minute background rule applies to Apples own apps. It probably does, so that would mean that if it hadn't finished downloading after ten minutes in the background, you would have to go back into the app.
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Built in apps can multitask longer than 10 min as long as RAM is available. So yes, iTunes will keep downloading while doing other things. Same with the App Store downloads.
Thanks very much for the answer fellas, I have a huge iTunes library and still manage my collection through iTunes even though I have an Android phone ATM. Thank you very much once again.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 07:46 AM   #71
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Maybe so, but it does not solve the key issues:

1) Who would want an email or IM App that can only receive messages for up to 10 minutes?.
Push notifications, Facebook messenger always lets me know when I get a Facebook message.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 08:15 AM   #72
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Push notifications, Facebook messenger always lets me know when I get a Facebook message.
I think people are just really confused about the way an iphone does things. I have never had an issue with "multitasking" so do not really care how it is does b.c it works!
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 08:21 AM   #73
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Push notifications, Facebook messenger always lets me know when I get a Facebook message.
You're just ignoring my posts.

Yes, those things provide messages when the App isn't running, but they don't do the things I or other posters asked for (i.e. maintaining a connection to a server continuously).

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I think people are just really confused about the way an iphone does things. I have never had an issue with "multitasking" so do not really care how it is does b.c it works!
This blog post from the developer of the popular Sparrow email App explains the iOS limitations with a real world example:

http://www.sprw.me/push.php
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 09:18 AM   #74
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You're just ignoring my posts.

Yes, those things provide messages when the App isn't running, but they don't do the things I or other posters asked for (i.e. maintaining a connection to a server continuously).



This blog post from the developer of the popular Sparrow email App explains the iOS limitations with a real world example:

http://www.sprw.me/push.php
Sparrow doesn't push because the app developer felt that they could not handle push, not because iOS doesn't allow them to. Considering Facebook messenger starts almost instantaneously, I'm still failing to see the practical benefit of android's form of multitasking.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 09:52 AM   #75
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Sparrow doesn't push because the app developer felt that they could not handle push, not because iOS doesn't allow them to. Considering Facebook messenger starts almost instantaneously, I'm still failing to see the practical benefit of android's form of multitasking.
From the link it says Apple won't allow it in the app store. But they also say iOS can do it if Apple allowed it...
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