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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:27 PM   #201
cameronjpu
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Originally Posted by McGiord View Post
Having Education or a degree is not the only success factor in a professional career, it is necessary but not sufficient.
IT is the professional field with a lot of opportunities for many out there. If they want a paycheck just for showing up and have a not challenging career maybe best buy is the best they can have. If they can add value to any company then they are hired. Life is full of choices the ones you make are up to you, you are responsible of your own destiny. If SJ told the world something, was simply paraphrasing Wayne Gretzky, just google it if you don't know it.
Well said
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:28 PM   #202
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It sounds like you simply don't yet have the perspective to understand how the real world works. You seem to have the same perspective as a lot of kids these days, who think that life is all about achievements and that once you have achieved something (a degree in a given field) you should be rewarded by someone (with a job). You will learn, eventually, that it's no ones "job" in this world to create jobs for others. Each and every job in existence was created so that the employee holding that job could make the creator of the job more money. If you don't have skills that can justify such a "reward" in exchange for your degree, then guess what? You guessed wrong and spent 4 years learning some skills that aren't worth as much as you were led to believe.

So suck it up and go out there and create your own job if you really think you can create value.

My guess is that like most of the helpless kids today, the concept of creating value is still a distant concept. You'll get it eventually, but first you have to lose the entitled attitude.
You're not reading what I'm writing at all. I never said a degree = a job. That was the case, but that model has stagnated and no longer holds true.

I'm amazed at the lack of the ability to look at world trends.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:31 PM   #203
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The value of a computer science degree has shrank dramatically as the number of degreed applicants has far outpaced job growth in that sector. Translation, computer science majors are a dime a dozen so business can drive wages down because there is no shortage of eager applicants who desperately want a check and experience.

It's not all that mysterious. It doesn't help that many computer science majors can't code worth a damn which is the much greater educational commodity these days when it comes to IT; compared to your typical Devry and Stevens Henagar A+, N+, MCSE paper tiger even though both may have computer science degrees.
Sounds to me like it's going to remain a mystery (actually, worse, a conspiracy) to that OP until he learns some hard lessons on life.

I graduated from an Ivy league school in 2001 with a degree in economics. Thought I'd go work on wall street. Well, they were firing in droves after the bubble popped. So after 6 months looking I found a job at a local bank as an analyst. Hated that job, but did the work for 18 months until I quit, and started my own company. Now, 9 years later, I have a deep understanding of what it means to EARN money. Every day I have to go out and get hired by new clients to pay my bills. If I do a bad job, or don't show up, or go on vacation... I get paid nothing at all. Think that OP could handle a life like that?
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:33 PM   #204
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Apple is actually experimenting with this idea and hence its wise to start small and see how it works out.

Imagine spending 5 Billion dollars or so and promising 2000 jobs and then finding out that it was a failed experiment.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:39 PM   #205
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....Seriously, go read up on the race to the bottom, it covers the boom and bust of specific fields. Everything you're saying fall exactly into that model, you're fully agreeing with me whether you realize it or not.
Seriously, grow up.

If you think this decade is different from decades past, you're myopic. The "race to the bottom" is just another way to say that if you can't do a job better than someone offering to do it for half what you're asking, you're not going to get the job.

And it sounds like that's your problem. You've found your level (hopefully for your sake, only temporarily) and that's roughly equal to any other high school slob off the street who can install antivirus and remove cookies from a computer. So get up off your ass and spend this Sunday afternoon starting a company providing whatever scary awesome service you can provide instead of whining on a message board. Nobody here is impressed that you have a college degree and an indoctrination into some "philosophy" that you call race to the bottom.

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I'm working 30+ hours a week at $10.75 an hour while paying for part time college and doing frequent disaster relief trips around the country (this year I'm going to New Orleans to build houses). How the **** is that entitled?
Hahaha...

30 hours? Wow.... used to be people trying to improve their lot would get two jobs. I guess that doesn't happen anymore. Everyone wants an award.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:40 PM   #206
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and 200 million in tax breaks.loloolo typical capitalism
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:40 PM   #207
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You're not reading what I'm writing at all. I never said a degree = a job. That was the case, but that model has stagnated and no longer holds true.

I'm amazed at the lack of the ability to look at world trends.
You seem to be constantly amazed at a lot of things. Sad.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:43 PM   #208
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The issue in the USA is most people want the greatest amount of pay with the least amount of effort. What most don't realize is there are thousands of others reaching for the same low hanging fruit which greatly reduces not only wages but job security.

Add to that the sheer number of useless Pottery and Diversity majors and you have a lot of adults with debt they can't pay because they aren't qualified to generate wealth and value for a company. For those people learn to like saying "would you like fries with that" because no one owes you anything.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:54 PM   #209
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The issue in the USA is most people want the greatest amount of pay with the least amount of effort. What most don't realize is there are thousands of others reaching for the same low hanging fruit which greatly reduces not only wages but job security.

Add to that the sheer number of useless Pottery and Diversity majors and you have a lot of adults with debt they can't pay because they aren't qualified to generate wealth and value for a company. For those people learn to like saying "would you like fries with that" because no one owes you anything.
Yep. This brings up a good point - just like the housing bubble was aided by the desire to put everyone in their own home, even if they couldn't afford it, this "education bubble" is caused by the push to force everyone to go to "college" whether or not they are capable of learning true advanced concepts, and whether or not there is demand for as many college grads as we are creating.

Thus, we have a whole industry of "colleges" which are really just 13th grade, where the same pathetic loser who sat behind you in home ec texting the whole class and skating by with a D because the administration needs to pass everyone to the next level, now sits behind you in Philosophy 101 wondering what he's doing there and planning how drunk he will get tonight (Tuesday night is half price wings night after all).

So you have a generation of kids, like NTT1440 for instance, who probably should have just graduated high school and started selling real estate right away, who instead went to college and got his mind filled up with ideas about what kind of life he was owed by his country just for his generosity of waking up every day and going to class. Now he has 100K in debt probably and no concept of what it takes to EARN money, and no prospect for ever earning 100K more than his ongoing expenses. It's ugly.

But it's not, as NTT1440 would insist, CAUSED by supply and demand (which he likes to call the race to the bottom). It's caused by government interference (by creating unreasonably cheap and easy college loans) in higher education creating a glut of idiots with college degrees and huge debt.

Last edited by cameronjpu; Dec 9, 2012 at 01:22 PM.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 01:30 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by appleguy123 View Post
I was more happy when there was just 1 Jobs.
Were you even around before Jobs was married and had children..?

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Originally Posted by GorgonPhone View Post
and 200 million in tax breaks.loloolo typical capitalism
I doubt they're doing this for the money. $100m is a drop in the bucket for them.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 01:53 PM   #211
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As an Aussie I really don't care home many US jobs are created by the company that makes the computers/phones I love to use. Despite the economy, I think Americans with enough skills/drive can all find jobs (or make them for themselves.) Lots of Aussie friends who are already established over here will go there in order to further themselves because it's a land of opportunities. Again... if you have done te study and have the personal drive to keep searching.

That said I hope these are careers and not just jobs. I've had many jobs but the first one I was proud of was my first career job...
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 02:16 PM   #212
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It's weird that Apple would go with Foxconn for US manufacturing. Why use the same company that causes all the problems and controversy with manufacturing in China? I mean, Apple could open up their own manufacturing facility and then not have to pay a third party anything.

Regardless, it's nice to at least get a few jobs back in the US. Here's to hoping more come along, and that people get the educations necessary to fill them.
Most of what we hear in the media is negative, because people like hearing "gossip". This is why politicians run smear campaigns, regardless of how negative and sleazy it may be, it just works. People are much less likely to pay attention if Foxconn donated 10 million dollars to charity. Or if they built an orphanage in China. People like to hear negative things. That being said, Foxconn could do a lot of good in the world and no one would care as much as when something bad happens. The same goes with any company.

I'm sure that Foxconn does right by Apple. In my opinion, Apple would have walked away from Fox a long time ago if Foxconn was an unreliable company that did not produce results. I cannot pretend to understand the innerworkings of either company ( though I do work for Apple ), but I can only assume that this long standing partnership is based on Foxconn's ability to produce results.

+1 to hoping.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 02:42 PM   #213
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Are they saying 200 directly linked jobs (as in workers in the factory), because if they're saying the overall net impact, that is far too low. You need workers to build the factory, extra jobs generated from 200 additional people having jobs (or moving in), meaning more restaurants, services, etc. I could see it ending up having 1-2 additional jobs for each job created. leaving about 400-600 jobs overall, creating even more jobs...

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Originally Posted by Lark.Landon View Post
Most of what we hear in the media is negative, because people like hearing "gossip". This is why politicians run smear campaigns, regardless of how negative and sleazy it may be, it just works. People are much less likely to pay attention if Foxconn donated 10 million dollars to charity. Or if they built an orphanage in China. People like to hear negative things. That being said, Foxconn could do a lot of good in the world and no one would care as much as when something bad happens. The same goes with any company.

I'm sure that Foxconn does right by Apple. In my opinion, Apple would have walked away from Fox a long time ago if Foxconn was an unreliable company that did not produce results. I cannot pretend to understand the innerworkings of either company ( though I do work for Apple ), but I can only assume that this long standing partnership is based on Foxconn's ability to produce results.

+1 to hoping.
Yeah, by denying overtime wages and forcing workers to work ungodly amounts of overtime... I can't wait to see what happens if they try to pull that here in the U.S.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 02:44 PM   #214
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Leave the jobs over in China
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 03:01 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by jctevere View Post

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[/COLOR]

Yeah, by denying overtime wages and forcing workers to work ungodly amounts of overtime... I can't wait to see what happens if they try to pull that here in the U.S.
They can't do that in the U.S. The laws in China are different and there are hundreds of companies in China that do the same thing. Blame the Chinese government for that. And the American government for making it so much more profitable to manufacture elsewhere.

Last edited by Lark.Landon; Dec 9, 2012 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Clarity
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 04:15 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by linuxophile View Post
I'd rather have one Jobs than 200 jobs.

[Damn, I saw now the same joke...
I thought it was so original...]
I wouldn't. Jobs was a ****ass, people need jobs to support their children.

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Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
Many of these "Jobless Americans" were making good money at some point... but their job got eliminated due to downsizing when the economy took a dive.

If you were once making $80,000 a year... but now you're jobless... I doubt you'd want to work at Apple's computer assembly factory anyway.

Oh... and there are plenty of jobs... just not many jobs like you used to have.

Again... if you were making $80,000 a year... you won't be taking a job at Staples or McDonalds (both of which are hiring at a store near you)
I knew someone at my last job (Macy's) who used to make well over $200,000 at his old job before he retired and then lost most of it.

So yeah... you might.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 07:17 PM   #217
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What happened to the generation that believed they could, and did change the status quo in this country? Seems like they grew up into businessmen whom love the system when it works for them with nothing but disdain for trying to change the system.

Capitalism will end in our lifetimes (spectacularly, as it always falters with a crash), and they are all going to be wondering what the **** happened because they bought the lie hook, line, and sinker.

Thanks for starting the fight, then abandoning it the second you found a job that got you a comfortable "middle class" lifestyle. Might as well just spit on the poor and oppressed. Thanks for nothing.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 07:28 PM   #218
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What happened to the generation that believed they could, and did change the status quo in this country? Seems like they grew up into businessmen whom love the system when it works for them with nothing but disdain for trying to change the system.

Capitalism will end in our lifetimes (spectacularly, as it always falters with a crash), and they are all going to be wondering what the **** happened because they bought the lie hook, line, and sinker.

Thanks for starting the fight, then abandoning it the second you found a job that got you a comfortable "middle class" lifestyle. Might as well just spit on the poor and oppressed. Thanks for nothing.
Ah yes, now your true colors come through. You poor kid, you actually seem to believe that. I guess we're all colored by our times, and unfortunately the weak-minded of your generation will forever believe the crap that you just said. The strong will do what the strong always do - succeed.

I foresee a long, painful life ahead of you Oh well, we can't all be successful! Enjoy your terrible life fighting "the man"
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 07:29 PM   #219
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Ah yes, now your true colors come through. You poor kid, you actually seem to believe that. I guess we're all colored by our times, and unfortunately the weak-minded of your generation will forever believe the crap that you just said. The strong will do what the strong always do - succeed.

I foresee a long, painful life ahead of you Oh well, we can't all be successful! Enjoy your terrible life fighting "the man"
I'll spend my life doing exactly what I've always done, helping others. Call me crazy.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 08:13 PM   #220
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I'll spend my life doing exactly what I've always done, helping others. Call me crazy.
And bitching about your lot in life. Hm.

That's so funny - here I created a company out of nothing and hired someone. Let's see, which one helps others more? Creating a job or building a house? Hmm... what is it they say about giving a man a fish? Capitalism is far more helpful to the poor of society than any charity could ever be.

Communism's been tried. It doesn't work. More gets done, better, when everyone pays for the best they can afford than when people try to donate time and labor. It just doesn't work.

It was famously said that democracy is the worst system except for all the others. Capitalism could just as easily fit in that quote.

Last edited by cameronjpu; Dec 9, 2012 at 08:27 PM.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:22 AM   #221
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Great PR move by Apple. By adding a mere 200 jobs, they've dominated another 24-hour U.S. news cycle.

I still hope this means they will be reactivating their factory in Elk Grove, California, where the last of the US-made iMacs were assembled before the work was shipped overseas.
This is a good start because although it is only 200 jobs actually assembling the machines it is the supply chain that is the most import part of this. Apple are saying they want to source as many components as possible from the US for these machines. The main problem with bringing manufacturing back to the US is the lack of supply chain for electronics. This will take time to change but if this move is successful there is a chance that more manufacturing will move in the future as the supply chain gets more established.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:56 AM   #222
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The "200 jobs" created in the US by Apple will be more than compensated for with the THOUSANDS of US jobs LOST when Apple switches from Samsung, which has a chip manufacturing plant in Austin, Texas, to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), which has its factories in (surprise, surprise) TAIWAN, to make all the CPUs for iPhones and iPads.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 08:37 AM   #223
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The "200 jobs" created in the US by Apple will be more than compensated for with the THOUSANDS of US jobs LOST when Apple switches from Samsung, which has a chip manufacturing plant in Austin, Texas, to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), which has its factories in (surprise, surprise) TAIWAN, to make all the CPUs for iPhones and iPads.
Even if Samsumg has a few spin off companies in the US, it's parent company is actually a South Korean company. So Apple is trying to break off a relationship with the South Korean company Samsumg. Samsung sort of has a long history of copying other products while making them slightly cheaper to slightly under-cut the market.

I've looked at the history of all your posts and there seems to be a negative trend. You also seem to overuse full-word capitalization for emphasis.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 09:04 AM   #224
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conspiracy

Well I'm a little bit of a conspiracy theorist, but I wonder if this has anything to do with all this "Fiscal Cliff" BS going around and Cookie hanging out with The Chosen One a little bit back. I bet China's getting sick of us printing tons of monopoly money and our trade agreements are falling apart. Maybe cook got a little inside scoop that it's about to get a lot trickier to manufacture overseas.

But I don't really know what I'm talking about.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 10:01 AM   #225
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And bitching about your lot in life. Hm.

That's so funny - here I created a company out of nothing and hired someone. Let's see, which one helps others more? Creating a job or building a house? Hmm... what is it they say about giving a man a fish? Capitalism is far more helpful to the poor of society than any charity could ever be.

Communism's been tried. It doesn't work. More gets done, better, when everyone pays for the best they can afford than when people try to donate time and labor. It just doesn't work.

It was famously said that democracy is the worst system except for all the others. Capitalism could just as easily fit in that quote.
It says alot about your mindset that you can only seem to think up capitalism and communism. What a closed mind.
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