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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:34 AM   #176
iLLUMI
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Hang on a sec, don't these people (the ones getting stranded) know that Apple Maps is buggy. I mean hasn't there been enough (major) publicity around this that everyone should know not to completely rely on Apple Maps.
Crikey mate! How much can a koala bare!

Seriously though, people oughta not risk their lives like that. I mean get a real map for country regions. Always have a backup plan. Chances are the area hasnt been mapped out fully yet. So on that note, yeh I guess I agree with the 'Apple bashing' statements. A bit unfair to point the finger at Apple.

I feel sorry for all those people stranded though. Where's Skippy when you need him?
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:36 AM   #177
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Apple is living in a distortion field where they think Apple is invulnerable. I suspect that most Apple employees weren't around in the bad old days when the company was a few weeks away from bankruptcy. Apple staff seriously cannot see the possibility of Android taking over the dominant place in smartphones and tablets. Thus, Apple is living dangerously.

In a recent interview, Tim Cook said that Apple could avoid Sony's spiral by keeping focused on a core area of excellence. Sure, Tim, if that was Sony's one and only frailty. There was a time in the late 90's where Sony had the slogan, "because it's a SONY". That was the era when consumers were willing to pay a bit extra just to get a Sony ... me included. Apple is there now, and it cannot see itself losing that aura. Hence, Apple is now in the danger zone. The worst way to navigate the danger zone is sheer arrogance to the point of blindness. Apple is exhibiting arrogance and blindness in bucket loads.

Baked into Apple's DNA is Steve Jobs' mantra that Apple does not listen to customers - "We don't do customer research .. we see what customers don't see etc etc". Well, I would say that every mega titan corporation that ever was the darling of its era went through a purple patch where they had a string of products that captured the market. But history shows that titans do fall.

The sheer arrogance of Apple thinking that it can focus on consumer product features, and thumb its nose at professional and corporate users. Take for instance, the issue of matte anti-glare screens. Probably a minority -- a large one though -- mostly in the professional areas, but also ordinary users who suffer from eye strain. Apple, fro 6 years, has thumbed its nose at those segment who need such products.

Then there's the removal of key features, ostensibly because the majority of consumers don't use that feature. Key example, the removal of colored icons from the left column in the Finder. Apple could have had an option in Preferences to show or hide the colors, but, no, Apple shafts those users, and focuses on the consumer majority. There are some users, who rely in their computers to get work done, and value speed over visual art. Don't tell me that the monochrome look appears nicer, because I AGREE, it does look cool, but sometimes I need to work fast, and having to read the writing in the Finder is slower than having colors to visual cues.

See this expose from a software developer on why the removal of color hinders usability. http://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog/?p=271

Every aspect of Apple's approach reeks of Steve Jobs' arrogance that's been hard baked into Apple's DNA. If you don't believe that a $120 billion cash company can be reduced to dust in 2 decades, first (1) read some history books, and (2) let's bookmark this for 2 decades and see who's right. Errr, anyone remember Digital Corporation, the Sony dominance of the 80's and 90's, Netscape etc.

Apple's penchant for crippling the upgradeability of its products, forcing you to buy new hardware, rather than extending the lifespan by a few years -- all that is going to come back reaped as a whirlwind. So many years ago now, Apple loyalist used to rave about how Apple computers last longer than PC's, and that the higher cost was actually an investment. Now, look at iFixit's rant from their disgust at how what used to be upgradeable components are either soldered, GLUED, or positioned behind major components so you cannot upgrade the memory and hard drive. How many of you, given the choice of having a smooth rear panel for the iMac, versus a removable panel to replace RAM and hard drives, would choose the non-upgrade path. Sure, there's the argument that 90% of people don't replace the RAM and hard drives -- but that's because Apple makes you jump through hoops to open up. If it was a simple matter of opening up a window, and inserting the new RAM or hard drive, more people would. I raise these points as evidence of Apple's sheer arrogance of dictating its agenda to consumers, with the vindictive knowledge that people will continue to buy Apple's products irrespective. Well, that's the sort of attitude that form the seeds of destruction where a titan corporation can disintegrate over a decade or two.

I speak this bitter disappointment in Apple, as a user who has been loyal to Apple since the mid 80's. I speak these words, not as an outside critic, but as someone who's grown up with Apple products all my life, who's been a Mac evangelist, someone who felt Apple was a special part of my life. Only to see it evolve into a corporate huckster, where the first decision is whether any step is going to make more money. Apple is so nice about it, couching it words such as, "we can't please everyone" and "we need to be focused" -- but how many of you would argue that that's just spin for: "If we can't make buckets of money out of you, then we're not going to make stuff for you". Without thinking, you can argue that any corporation's first role is to make money, but I'd argue that when a company gets to a certain market dominance, where people rely on its products, there comes a responsibility to supply certain minority niches that don't necessarily make tons of profit. I come back to the matte, anti-glare issue. Let's get this straight, not everyone needs matte, anti-glare screens. Not every likes them. Not every sees any need for them. Great. But many people do. Unlike DVD's - where you can carry an external DVD drive, people who need matte screens can't substitute them. It would be fine if Apple made the Mac Mini as powerful as the iMac, but, no, the Mac Mini is made slower than the iMac, so that people who are forced to buy non-Apple matte screens are restricted to using a slower Mac Mini.

All I'm saying is that, inspite of the $120 million cash mattress that Apple sleeps on, there are in 2012 the seeds of Apple's destruction clearly shown in its corporate arrogance. I grieve, because, over my lifetime, Apple has been one of my loves.

"Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:36 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by ElZeus View Post
It's "poop" inside the U.S.A. at times. Wonder how much Apple is going to get sued for after someone dies because of this.
I think this is a very good use case for printed maps. Australia has some national parks that are extremely secluded. This helps ensure the survival of native flora and fauna. One example would be Walls of Jerusalem National Park. Cars can't even approach the park gates. Good luck with phone service there. Apple's maps look like a disaster, but thinking about it, I wouldn't rely on Google here either or any electronic device as my only means of navigation. Apple could have avoided some amount of bad press by not releasing maps until they were 100% ready. Looking for landmarks and freeway exits that don't exist will annoy people to a much greater degree than slow data.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:36 AM   #179
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Yesterday, in plain Oxford Street, I was looking for the nearest pharmacy and followed Maps' indications. It wasn't a Boots Pharmacy. It was a Kebab Shop.

I am not joking.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:37 AM   #180
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While I make no apology for Apple's dodgy mapping data (though noting that I've seen many Google mapping atrocities in my time too, including one that led to a permanent warning sign being erected near where I live), I do have to wonder about people who set an unfamiliar town as a destination on any navigation device, then don't zoom in even a little bit to investigate why there don't appear to be any buildings there.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:39 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by BuckusToothnail View Post
Just checked again and Apple Maps is still showing the incorrect information about Mildura. It's been at least 24 hours since this worldwide story broke so it's a little surprising Apple hasn't updated this information given the huge publicity it's been getting.

Then again, it's actually NOT surprising given that I've reported at least two dozen inaccuracies on the Maps app in the past few months since I've owned my iPhone 5 and ZERO of these mistakes have been corrected since I last checked (which was just right now for "fun").

This includes a shopping mall near my house that's still listed as a lake (probably because it has "lake" in the name). Also a street near my house is one-way that Maps still advises me to turn into the WRONG WAY. Turn-by-turn is nice except when it can get you KILLED.

Sadly it seems the whole crowd-sourcing and "the more our customers use our Maps the better it will get" mantra espoused by Tim Cook and Apple is BOGUS so far or perhaps just EXCRUCIATINGLY slow in its implementation.

I think a HUGE part of the problem is Apple doesn't seem to be directly in control of the DATA used in its Maps application. The fact that Apple is licensing data from a variety of mapping data providers.

So while IOS6 users are giving Apple a treasure trove of correction information, these corrections are NOT being implemented. Doesn't seems like these third party vendors wants Apple to mess with its data, and Apple itself is not able incorporate its own corrections into the databases it licenses, which are likely live and constantly updated by the data providers.
Great analysis!
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:39 AM   #182
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Yawn. People nowadays are really so quick to jump on Apple. Everyone has already known that Apple map is not as good as Google map right now but they're committed to improve it quickly. The decision to stop reliance on Google is a strategic move and it will be beneficial to Apple in the long run, especially now that Google has been at the centre of the wave of similar products that have been eating into Apple's share. I hate it when people make outlandish statements like "Im moving to Android because Apple's map sucks blah blah". Good bye and good riddance ! Please post your new phones on here so we can see it. Good luck with laggy UI (yes I'm telling you Android 4.2 is laggy), belated software updates, bloatwares, "brilliant" customer service and quality control.

And FYI I live in Sydney and Apple map works fine for me. I even find it to be better than google map.

Last edited by louis.b; Dec 10, 2012 at 04:00 AM.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:57 AM   #183
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I took a drive in the Wombat forest last weekend (90 mins out of Melbourne Australia) Maps attempted to take me down 3 roads that don't exist. (Not mislabelled, just not actually there!) thankfully my 2 week old iPhone 5 soon exhausted its 3.5 hours real world battery life and I had to use that slightly more reliable navigation System (my brain and eyes) and retraced my steps onto the highway that I started on.

I've been an apple devotee since my first G3 tower but this latest hardware/software offer has left me less than impressed. I'm perfectly happy with incremental increases in speed and functionality across the evolution of a product but a $900 AUD device with noticably less battery life and inferior navigation to its predecessor does not deserve the "best thing to happen to iPhone since iPhone" title.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:59 AM   #184
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Well, I have been sent to the wrong location by TomTom in a few cases (just entering a UK postcode, which should really not be that hard to get right), sometimes miles away. Now I don't expect any dangerous situations to happen, but it doesn't happen to Apple only.

And in the USA there have been severe warnings where just following directions in some of the more empty parts of the country can get you into trouble.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishwildcat View Post
While I make no apology for Apple's dodgy mapping data (though noting that I've seen many Google mapping atrocities in my time too, including one that led to a permanent warning sign being erected near where I live), I do have to wonder about people who set an unfamiliar town as a destination on any navigation device, then don't zoom in even a little bit to investigate why there don't appear to be any buildings there.
I have gone along one road in England with a sign "Not suitable for HGVs" (that's Heavy Goods Vehicles), and actually under it a sign "Your TomTom is wrong!". And about one mile along the road I came to a point that was quite tight for my car, and impossible for a van or lorry to pass. And very hard to turn around.


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Originally Posted by MGCP View Post
I live in London, and had London showing in maps. Twice over the weekend I tried to use maps , the first to search a London address, the second a London restaurant. The first result took me to Maine, US as the first option, the second to a barely related result just outside of Toronto. I've given up trying to search for places now and am waiting for Google.
A friend of my wife was taken on a holiday to Paris by her husband. He had booked (through his secretary) a table in the Eiffel tower restaurant. When they arrived, it turned out they had a booking for a table at a restaurant called the "Eiffel tower restaurant" in some large town in Canada.

Last edited by gnasher729; Dec 10, 2012 at 04:09 AM.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:01 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by katewes View Post
Key example, the removal of colored icons from the left column in the Finder. Apple could have had an option in Preferences to show or hide the colors, but, no, Apple shafts those users, and focuses on the consumer majority. There are some users, who rely in their computers to get work done, and value speed over visual art. Don't tell me that the monochrome look appears nicer, because I AGREE, it does look cool, but sometimes I need to work fast, and having to read the writing in the Finder is slower than having colors to visual cues.
I agree with that. For me monochrome isn't such a big issue in Finder, but they did it in Aperture too and that is a PITA.

However, maybe Apple are starting to take notice of us because coloured icons have reappeared in iTunes 11 so hopefully that means they'll be back in Finder, Aperture, and any other apps that went monochrome, sometime soon
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:10 AM   #186
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Apple Maps is a joke.

BAD GRAPHICS, Black, white, blurry, Wrong Locations and so on

My city in Denmarks is misplaced with 6 miles. The stores listed to be here are more than 12 miles misplaced.

Must be mr. stupid who made Apple Maps....
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:12 AM   #187
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Why were these people relying on a map that requires batteries? Smartphones are a great convenience, but for long term navigation (you are on a trip to somewhere new), you need a proper map too. Plus Apple's app is already known to have it's problems. Going off into the unknown with IOs 6 maps....what could possible go wrong? I feel this is the equivalent of blaming sat nav for driving into a river (and using a faulty sat nav to boot...)
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:12 AM   #188
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They should just leave these people stranded; it's one thing to use sat-nav or similar as an aid, but anyone relying on the technology instead of getting proper directions first is just asking for trouble.


Obviously there's no excuse for Apple's maps to be so incredibly wrong, but seriously; sat-nav reliant drivers aren't the kind of drivers we want one the road in the first place.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:19 AM   #189
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Americans knowore about this topic - If they were hurt or even killed, could apple get sued? They paid for the product and service which killed/hurt them so Apple could be to blame? what if I was using Apple maps to get to an important meeting, I was late due to the maps and lost out on a buiness deal worth thousands...?
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:29 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by iLLUMI View Post
Hang on a sec, don't these people (the ones getting stranded) know that Apple Maps is buggy. I mean hasn't there been enough (major) publicity around this that everyone should know not to completely rely on Apple Maps.
These are the same people who take a road trip in the middle of summer without suitable food or water in the car, and apparently not enough fuel!

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Crikey mate! How much can a koala bare!
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:31 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by faroZ06 View Post
For the first time, I'm first.

Geez, Apple Maps must be total poop outside the USA. This is hilarious.
It's hilariously bad. A few weeks ago I was in an unfamiliar city, I got off a train and wanted to find a popular building/location. I searched for it by name (as Google Maps supports), couldn't find anything. I had to;

Google search the address
Entered address, it gave one answer that was clearly very wrong
Went back and searched again, finally got the right answer.

All in all it took a minute or so. On Google Maps it used to take, well, however long it took you to type in a building name! On the way back I tried Google's web map and that worked flawlessly (just not as real time as the old app).

Google cannot get their new map app here fast enough.

And I really miss Streetview too.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:32 AM   #192
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Apple Maps is still a complete joke. Mrs used it to find a pub on foot which, surprise, was actually on Apple Maps. But it was about 200m out on a different street. So it took her an age to find after asking multiple passersby for directions.

It's maybe alright to use as a basic TomTom-style SatNav as simple addresses kind of work now for the most part. But for POI? Forget it.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:39 AM   #193
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Apple Maps may not be great, but ...

... no maps app on this planet is idiot proof.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 04:52 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by haruhiko View Post
Some people explained that Apple needs "crowd sourcing" to improve its Maps app.

Well, I have reported a wrong POI for ~10 times already and it's still there after a few months.
Same here. Crowd sourcing doesn't mean squat if they don't use the input.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 05:01 AM   #195
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time for Apple to buy Navteq quick. Or at least make a deal.
My car has maps recently updated on the basis of Navteq materials. A separate GPS that I also have for a second car has the TeleAtlas stuff that Apple uses (if I recall correctly, otherwise this post is a waste of space). The separate GPS with TeleAtlas data (which is even a bit older than the Navteq data in the first car) performs lots and lots better, mainly because the data is better. It knows of roads, single-directions, etc that the Navteq data does not and the Navteq data contains clear errors (e.g. off-ramps in Navteq data displayed as (nonexistent) splits in highways).

I have the gut feeling that not so much the data is the problem (as other systems using TeleAtlas data perform very well), because with the same data my GPS system performs extremely well, but the software. And specifically, I think it could be that rounding off errors in the software that uses the data is creating this mess. Of course, it can be that TeleAtlas screwed up and released a broken set to Apple, but to me it seems more of a data/logic mismatch problem.

Unless of course the city in the story was handles as a POI and the POI data is wrong. Then it can be purely data as my GPS car kits do not use POI data.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 05:08 AM   #196
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Yesterday, in plain Oxford Street, I was looking for the nearest pharmacy and followed Maps' indications. It wasn't a Boots Pharmacy. It was a Kebab Shop.

I am not joking.
That's actually a weirdly common problem in Apple Maps. There's a building in Hackney that was a marked as a kebab shop, and is now labeled as a Boots Pharmacy following a "correction".

The problem is that building is Hackney Town Hall, and there isn't a Boots or a Kebab shop nearby.

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Originally Posted by scottishwildcat View Post
While I make no apology for Apple's dodgy mapping data (though noting that I've seen many Google mapping atrocities in my time too, including one that led to a permanent warning sign being erected near where I live), I do have to wonder about people who set an unfamiliar town as a destination on any navigation device, then don't zoom in even a little bit to investigate why there don't appear to be any buildings there.
Apple Maps claims that there are barely any buildings in Trafalgar Square (the National Gallery doesn't have a building outline!). I'm not sure anyone would think it was unusual that it didn't show any buildings.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 05:10 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Donut4000 View Post
Why were these people relying on a map that requires batteries? Smartphones are a great convenience, but for long term navigation (you are on a trip to somewhere new), you need a proper map too. Plus Apple's app is already known to have it's problems. Going off into the unknown with IOs 6 maps....what could possible go wrong? I feel this is the equivalent of blaming sat nav for driving into a river (and using a faulty sat nav to boot...)
You do realize that there are these things called PHONE CHARGERS that can be plugged into cars nowadays???

And perhaps these "adventurers" weren't EXPECTING to be heading into the WILDERNESS when they thought they were following driving instructions toward a CITY.

But yes, you're right, anyone putting faith in Apple Maps nowadays after all the public warnings and all the negative publicity is an UTTER FOOL. Not to mention it only takes less than 5 minutes using Apple Maps in a moving car to know it's absolute RUBBISH.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 05:28 AM   #198
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Apple - it just werks
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 05:51 AM   #199
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What a complete joke!!! As others have stated in this thread... Apple just sucks at internet services (besides iTunes).
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 05:57 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by ridesdeepsnow View Post
Pretty much any moron who solely relies on a phone for directions without a backup, lets say like a umm......paper printed map, deserves any problems they may encounter by doing so.

Any Publicity is good publicity. If you honestly do not know that then you know very little.

We live in an age where everyone believes they are responsible or accountable for nothing and everything is everyone else's problem.

I live in Lake Tahoe, CA. When I go into the backcountry in winter or summer I make sure I bring the essential safety equipment and make sure I tell at least 1 person where I am going, how long for in case of a problem where I don;t have to saw my arm off like a complete ******* like someone who was portrayed by James Franco.

point being that it is very well expressed in the contract with Apple and most likely also the telephone provider that any or all information or services are not guaranteed.
Everyone skips the iPhone contract and signs it on the spot because we all know everyone doesn't have 15 minutes to read a contract nor the intelligence to understand the majority of what is entailed within the contract.

It is just becoming annoying to continue hearing about stupid people having things that could have been avoided, happen to them.

Can't we just allow the stupid people to die off naturally as they are supposed to? Why this need to save the weak and ignorant? This need to coddle those who have completely no common sense?

I make mistakes in life just like everyone else out there but I get up and lick my wounds and LEARN.

To go out into some kinda rough back country, especially Australia where it is COMMONLY known to be the home of some crazy wildlife and terrain to only travel around with a iPhone only proves my point.

IF YOU CAN AFFORD AN iPHONE YOU CAN AFFORD A MAP
I get that apple's small print says nothing's guaranteed, but it seems a bit pointless buying an iPhone at all if you're never going to rely on it.

You don't trust its maps so you take an atlas. What about its phone function? Do you take a samsung along in case you need to call the emergency services?
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