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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:14 AM   #76
McGiord
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Originally Posted by parseckadet View Post
You don't travel much do you? I don't either compared to some, but I do it enough to understand why streaming isn't an option. Every airport I've been to has both terrible WiFi speeds and 3G speeds on AT&T. The networks are just overwhelmed by the number of people trying to access them. Hotel WiFi is also usually hit or miss. Not to mention the fact that streaming does you no good while up in the air.

As for your question about consuming all 55GB between syncs, get real. I also doubt many people actually do that as well. But that's not the point. Even before the days of streaming, do you really think people would consume all 80GB or 120GB of content on their iPods? But they still wanted that much storage. I don't know what I'll be in the mood for later today, let alone a week from now, which is the typical length of the trips I take. So I need a wide variety of content available to me while I'm away.

All of this was illustrated during Thanksgiving week. I took a road trip from Houston to Colorado. You're not going to be able to stream content while driving through some rinky-dink town in the Texas panhandle with a population of around 200.



I'm not sure anyone is saying that a huge market is being alienated. But it is frustrating that the iPad 4 has the same storage limits as the first gen iPad. I also find it a little maddening that when Apple added 64GB to the iPhone, that they charged $100 more for it. I thought memory prices have been going down for years now. So why are we stuck with the same capacities at the same price points that we've had since the iPhone 3GS?
I have the same concerns, you are absolutely right.
It seems that we are not the average user.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:26 AM   #77
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I am on the road 150 nights a year on average. 250k frequent flier miles. several countries. Sorry, I still don't see how you can consume so much media, especially if you actually work while traveling. you sound like you need a MacBook Air not an iPad. I've had both and believe you'd be happier with the air.

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Originally Posted by parseckadet View Post
You don't travel much do you? I don't either compared to some, but I do it enough to understand why streaming isn't an option. Every airport I've been to has both terrible WiFi speeds and 3G speeds on AT&T. The networks are just overwhelmed by the number of people trying to access them. Hotel WiFi is also usually hit or miss. Not to mention the fact that streaming does you no good while up in the air.

As for your question about consuming all 55GB between syncs, get real. I also doubt many people actually do that as well. But that's not the point. Even before the days of streaming, do you really think people would consume all 80GB or 120GB of content on their iPods? But they still wanted that much storage. I don't know what I'll be in the mood for later today, let alone a week from now, which is the typical length of the trips I take. So I need a wide variety of content available to me while I'm away.

All of this was illustrated during Thanksgiving week. I took a road trip from Houston to Colorado. You're not going to be able to stream content while driving through some rinky-dink town in the Texas panhandle with a population of around 200.



I'm not sure anyone is saying that a huge market is being alienated. But it is frustrating that the iPad 4 has the same storage limits as the first gen iPad. I also find it a little maddening that when Apple added 64GB to the iPhone, that they charged $100 more for it. I thought memory prices have been going down for years now. So why are we stuck with the same capacities at the same price points that we've had since the iPhone 3GS?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:45 AM   #78
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I am on the road 150 nights a year on average. 250k frequent flier miles. several countries. Sorry, I still don't see how you can consume so much media, especially if you actually work while traveling. you sound like you need a MacBook Air not an iPad. I've had both and believe you'd be happier with the air.
I'm a software developer writing software for Windows and Unix. Thus I use a Windows laptop for my work. But for my personal use I prefer Macs, and my library is stored on my MBP. Since I already have to bring my Windows laptop whenever I travel (have to have it for support reasons even on vacation), any other device needs to be as small and light as possible. Since all I'm using it for is media, an Air is overkill and larger than what I want. The iPad mini fits my needs perfectly.

As I said before, I don't know what I'll be in the mood for during my down time on a trip. Thus it is irrelevant how much down time I'll actually have. If I have an hour at the end of the day to unwind before bed, or if I'm flying home and my work is completed, I want to have several options for media.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:35 AM   #79
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Who? And where? At least to sync to a laptop with a 1TB drive, even if you don't have cloud access?
Apologies for not responding sooner.

Quite often I am limited to 8kg or 12kg weight. That requires a lightweight product. I could therefore carry a laptop (Macbook Air) or an iPad. Many places I go do not have power on a permanent basis and quite often only allowed one socket to charge any devices I may have. Therefore the battery life of a product is important - i.e. an Ipad is better than a laptop.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 10:11 AM   #80
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64gig iphone

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Originally Posted by ThatsMeRight View Post
Yep, that's why we also have to wait for at least another year before the iPhone gets a 64 GB model. (iPhones have only one chip, unlike the iPad and iPod touch which can do 2x32 GB for 64 GB models).
I have the 64gig iphone5
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 12:49 PM   #81
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I have the 64gig iphone5
Whoops, I meant 128 GB model.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 01:01 PM   #82
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i'm on the road a lot for work, the cloud sucks, 64gb limit sucks, so i've gone ahead and gotten the seagate satellite and while not the optimum solution it works for now
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 01:04 PM   #83
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are you using more than 60Gb? I just don't see the market asking for 128Gb
Didn't people say the same thing about computer hard disks and RAM many years ago?

I have only 3 series of TV shows, a couple movies, and 30 GB of music. I don't have enough room to store all of it on my iPad. I could see where somebody with more shows/movies would need more space.

I would like 128GB of space because I would like to store more on my iPad.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:32 PM   #84
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Apologies for not responding sooner.

Quite often I am limited to 8kg or 12kg weight. That requires a lightweight product. I could therefore carry a laptop (Macbook Air) or an iPad. Many places I go do not have power on a permanent basis and quite often only allowed one socket to charge any devices I may have. Therefore the battery life of a product is important - i.e. an Ipad is better than a laptop.
Ok. That's a pretty extreme circumstance though, and not one Apple would design for. Where, may I ask is that?
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:40 PM   #85
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128gb is the sweet spot for me on an iDevice I believe, the point where I don't need to worry that I'm going to run out of room!

Just like 500gb is the sweet spot for me on a computer.

At the moment my 64gb devices are sufficient, but I have had to make a specific synced playlist rather than just chuck all my music on. Also I would love to have a lot more tv shows on the internal flash (an extra 64gb to be precise).
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:00 PM   #86
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What would you do if you weren't around WiFi for most of the day and didn't have unlimited data?
I am agree with you. In that case High storage capacity will help a lot.

In Offline way more storage will help in viewing media.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:07 PM   #87
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I think it's kinda artificial, much like the way it costs $100 more to get a 64gb over a 32gb and so on. It's not like you're going to get an extra hour (or 30 minutes) out of a nand flash chip sized battery.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 02:00 AM   #88
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I bought a 64gb class10 MicroSD card for about $40 from amazon. It's hard to swallow paying $200 to go from 16gb to 64gb aka apple tax.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 03:25 AM   #89
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Perhaps Apple could make the iPad more like the Surface (more on the side of a laptop than a tablet) and make the iPad Mini take the larger iPad's space.

iPad Mini - 16, 32, 64GB

iPad - 32, 64, 128GB

iPad would have better specs and more OS X like UI thanks to its larger screen.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:01 PM   #90
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I bought a 64gb class10 MicroSD card for about $40 from amazon. It's hard to swallow paying $200 to go from 16gb to 64gb aka apple tax.
Agreed. This is the same on the phone side.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 02:22 AM   #91
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I bought a 64gb class10 MicroSD card for about $40 from amazon. It's hard to swallow paying $200 to go from 16gb to 64gb aka apple tax.
This is one of those few areas in which I do believe in the Apple Tax. I first don't get why an increase of 16GB is $100 and then an increase of 32GB is also $100. Considering how the 16GB models seem to be by far the best sellers, you would think Apple might make the difference $50 between models to entice more people to buy more expensive tablets. I can't imagine the 64GB chip actually costs anywhere near $200 more than a 16GB one.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 05:12 AM   #92
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This is one of those few areas in which I do believe in the Apple Tax. I first don't get why an increase of 16GB is $100 and then an increase of 32GB is also $100. Considering how the 16GB models seem to be by far the best sellers, you would think Apple might make the difference $50 between models to entice more people to buy more expensive tablets. I can't imagine the 64GB chip actually costs anywhere near $200 more than a 16GB one.

At these margins I'd be expecting 128-256gb options by now. Doesn't have to be the fastest flash mem, 10-20mb/s seems to suffice for these iOS toys..
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 05:14 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by w00tini View Post
iCloud, Dropbox, SugarSync, ect...

are you using more than 60Gb? I just don't see the market asking for 128Gb
I can see the market for 1tb. I would like to carry my music. A load of iTunes U video lectures. Lots of books. Various podcasts and the odd film. 1 iTunes U video series on history took up 22.5 gb
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 01:33 PM   #94
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I can see the market for 1tb. I would like to carry my music. A load of iTunes U video lectures. Lots of books. Various podcasts and the odd film. 1 iTunes U video series on history took up 22.5 gb
Look... everyone WANTS a gazillion GB on the iPad so that it can serve as a tablet AND a removable hard drive, but that's not what Apple wants it to be. Costs aside, the average consumer does not want what WE want as enthusiasts with lots of digital media.

I agree that it would be nice, but the market is not asking for what we would want. Thus, I refer back to my original thought: 64Gb is good enough in Apple's minds for how they perceive we use the devices in aggregate.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 02:47 PM   #95
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Look... everyone WANTS a gazillion GB on the iPad so that it can serve as a tablet AND a removable hard drive, but that's not what Apple wants it to be. Costs aside, the average consumer does not want what WE want as enthusiasts with lots of digital media.

I agree that it would be nice, but the market is not asking for what we would want. Thus, I refer back to my original thought: 64Gb is good enough in Apple's minds for how they perceive we use the devices in aggregate.
Not true mate, a lot or apps and movies are becoming rather sizable now. One that caught me off guard was monopoly for iPad.. Looks innocent enough at 210mb download, but installed it was 928MB. I wasn't that much of a monopoly fan so I deleted it.

As more "resolutionary" apps come on board, this will only increase, not to mention movies and other crap on iTunes. Don't want terabytes just yet, but this 64gb thing is getting a little long in the tooth.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 04:04 PM   #96
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This is one of those few areas in which I do believe in the Apple Tax. I first don't get why an increase of 16GB is $100 and then an increase of 32GB is also $100. Considering how the 16GB models seem to be by far the best sellers, you would think Apple might make the difference $50 between models to entice more people to buy more expensive tablets. I can't imagine the 64GB chip actually costs anywhere near $200 more than a 16GB one.
Welcome to the world of pricing. That's not an Apple tax. It's just basic business. You pay more for upgrades than the cost they add. Do you think the premium sound upgrade in your car actually adds anywhere near $1200 to the price (probably closer to $200)? The switch from 3Mb to 12Mb at your ISP costs them around a dollar a month, but they'll charge you $20. Intel's processors skyrocket in price as you go up the chain, but the actual production prices are pretty even.

You make the bottom end cheaper by collecting a higher margin on the top end.

This is even true in food, where the next size up might be $4 instead of $3 more but you get 50% more. That seems like a lower margin, until you figure out that the ingredients in the small size only cost a dollar and most of the price is overhead. The extra dollar only increases ingredients 50 cents, so they're making $1.25 profit now (32%) over the $0.75 (25%) they made on the small size. Hence the upsell at coffee shops and fast food restaurants.

The balance of how much more you get and how much more you pay is carefully calculated in business. The added number of people willing to pay $50 more for a higher storage capacity is probably not ~2x the number of people willing to pay $100, so it makes sense for Apple to charge more and sell less, because it nets them more money. This is the same strategy they use in all of their products. Every company does exactly this calculation for every product option they offer.
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At these margins I'd be expecting 128-256gb options by now. Doesn't have to be the fastest flash mem, 10-20mb/s seems to suffice for these iOS toys..
Those options already exist. They're the 16GB and 32GB models.

The reason you don't see 128GB is because no one makes those modules yet, and it's rare to include more than 2x256Gb in a mobile device. They're just starting to enter production, so sometime next year, phones and tablets will be available in that capacity. It doesn't have anything to do with margins.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 04:15 PM   #97
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I am on the road 150 nights a year on average. 250k frequent flier miles. several countries. Sorry, I still don't see how you can consume so much media, especially if you actually work while traveling. you sound like you need a MacBook Air not an iPad. I've had both and believe you'd be happier with the air.
I think you are full of crap. I've paid for that Gogo in flight airplane wifi multiple times and I couldn't even connect to my Slingplayer, Netflix, or Stream to Me. I basically could only use the web and email. Anything that required bandwidth was unusable.

In hotels I've had great connections but more often than not the wifi sucks.

I could get by on 8GB on my iPad mini as I use it only for the web, email, Facebook, twitter, messages, ect...

For my iPad I've got tons of games and movies which almost maxes out my 64 gig iPad. With games taking over a gig you can easily use up 64 gigs.

Now regarding streaming services like Spotify. I have Spotify and really like it but if you don't have unlimited data it will eat up your data and leave you with a huge bill
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 06:23 PM   #98
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Welcome to the world of pricing. That's not an Apple tax. It's just basic business. You pay more for upgrades than the cost they add. Do you think the premium sound upgrade in your car actually adds anywhere near $1200 to the price (probably closer to $200)? The switch from 3Mb to 12Mb at your ISP costs them around a dollar a month, but they'll charge you $20. Intel's processors skyrocket in price as you go up the chain, but the actual production prices are pretty even.

You make the bottom end cheaper by collecting a higher margin on the top end.

This is even true in food, where the next size up might be $4 instead of $3 more but you get 50% more. That seems like a lower margin, until you figure out that the ingredients in the small size only cost a dollar and most of the price is overhead. The extra dollar only increases ingredients 50 cents, so they're making $1.25 profit now (32%) over the $0.75 (25%) they made on the small size. Hence the upsell at coffee shops and fast food restaurants.

The balance of how much more you get and how much more you pay is carefully calculated in business. The added number of people willing to pay $50 more for a higher storage capacity is probably not ~2x the number of people willing to pay $100, so it makes sense for Apple to charge more and sell less, because it nets them more money. This is the same strategy they use in all of their products. Every company does exactly this calculation for every product option they offer.

Those options already exist. They're the 16GB and 32GB models.

The reason you don't see 128GB is because no one makes those modules yet, and it's rare to include more than 2x256Gb in a mobile device. They're just starting to enter production, so sometime next year, phones and tablets will be available in that capacity. It doesn't have anything to do with margins.

Well I think, if they can make 64GB MicroSD modules, they can make 128GB iPads, surely! 2 memory modules, easy as pie!

The old 1st gen iPad 64GB had 2x 32GB modules in it.

At least if you're going to charge a premium, make the top end a little bit higher after 3 generations!

Last edited by Fruit Cake; Dec 16, 2012 at 06:31 PM.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:12 PM   #99
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128 GB seems unreasonable for a tablet IMO. A majority of consumers purchase 16 gigs, 32 gigs top. Very rarely do I stumble upon people with 64 gig iPads. Strangely enough, I've run across more people with 64 gig iPhones -- since they're used as a computer, camera, phone, and mp3 player. I could see them offering a 128gb iPhone before iPad.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 09:07 PM   #100
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Well I think, if they can make 64GB MicroSD modules, they can make 128GB iPads, surely! 2 memory modules, easy as pie!
SD cards have two modules in them. 64GB SD cards are 2x256Mb, just like Galaxy Tabs and iPads.
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The old 1st gen iPad 64GB had 2x 32GB modules in it.
So do the new ones. There's nothing bigger to put in them yet.
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At least if you're going to charge a premium, make the top end a little bit higher after 3 generations!
Somebody has to make them first. That's like saying that the last iPad already had LTE, so the next one should have something faster. There's not some conveyor belt magically churning out new technology. Sometimes you hit a limit that takes a few years to get past.
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