Microsoft and Apple Facing Off Over Office for iOS Subscription Revenues, Not SkyDrive

drewyboy · Dec 11, 2012

sinsin07 said:
Small companies stay small for a reason, usually from owners who don't think outside the box.

You're big deal is only a reference point for you and yours, not even a blip on the big picture and therefore not really worth mentioning in the context of millions and millions of Office and Ipad users.

And that's coming from someone who is a worker, not an owner. You're arrogance is astounding. He actually takes the risk to OWN a company and you WORK for one. Please, get off your high horse because he probably makes plenty more than you do. And who's the one thinking "outside the box" using the same crap that dished out update after update in what we know as "ms office". Don't knock him, you might end up working for someone just like him one day.

Edit: Btw, those millions and millions of ipad users AREN'T using office.

Exio · Dec 11, 2012

Methinks apple will regret this once mobile office becomes a windows mobile only exclusive. From a business perspective this is the way microsoft should go in the first place. Would put their mobile software at the top level of businesses.

Al Muhammed · Dec 11, 2012

KingofGotham1 said:
I typed in Angry birds and see 4 free versions of Angry Birds...I don't know why, but I keep hearing people say this...its simply not true.

Those "free" versions on iOS aren't the full games. Basically they are like demos. On Android the full games are free.

Exio · Dec 11, 2012

redkamel said:
Well, I got tired of using Office...Outlook had nothing to offer me . I don't like Excel on Mac. Windows was just ok. Powerpoint is boring.

On the other hand Keynote is awesome, Pages looks much cleaner, and Numbers seemed ok for what I do with it (minor work). Mail is great. I switched. So did one of my bosses and all his staff.

I don't think companies are switching to iOS/OSX. But a lot of people are switching at home. And in college, you used to have to be familiar with Excel. Now people are familiar with Excel, google docs, and Numbers, to a degree all at the same time. Its really all the same. Many people are realizing they don't need Office...there are viable, cheaper alternatives.

My old roomate was trying to get her small business to work on Excel on her ipad for edits. It didn't, really. So I advised her to switch to Numbers, or to just view documents and edit later. She switched to Numbers. Some learning curve, but with google, trouble shooting takes 30 minutes.

All it takes is a higher up (like in my case) to say "Use the Apple Suite or Google docs, no need for Excel" and its done.

Apple doesn't have to play ball with Microsoft. Time is on their side. Office is no longer a "killer app".

I beg to differ. Office is still and for the foreseeable future will be the prefer business suite. Yes consumers and small timers can get by with google docs etc, however when you have multiple corporations interacting with one another daily, they need a single, refined platform. That is office.

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billyjp said:
Hello, Redmond.

Welcome to The Race To The Bottom.

Isn't it ironic that the same type of "Windows Tax" that you forced on PC retailers is now coming back around to bite you on the butt in the form of the "Apple Tax" on iOS developers?

OK, let's think through your strategy:
30% is a percentage. So, the product needs to pull in 43% more in gross sales to zero out the commission lost to AAPL.

The way you do this is either:

A) Price your product 43% higher. This will zero out the 30% commission you lose to AAPL. For a long time Office has been bloatware. Why not make the iOS version bloated-price-ware?

B) Focus on making a frickin' awesome product, so that users actually want to buy it, AAPL wants to promote it* and you can sell a boatload of copies.

In case you haven't realized yet...selling Office to BYOD iPad users is going to be very different from forcing "license renewal" compliance through CIOs and enterprise IT.

Heck you might actually sell greater than 43% more copies by making a product users want to buy, rather than need to buy.

And, by the way...Office ain't going anywhere on iOS without Apple's help. So you better buckle up and become a better partner.

Finally, sorry about the $99 iOS Developer program fee. We all have to pay that, too. Rules are rules.

Office is bloatware? Do you enjoy your job at Mcdonalds?

drewyboy · Dec 11, 2012

Can someone PLEASE explain what is so magical about excel? Seriously, some of the crap I hear people doing on it, I'm think you've got to be kidding. Most of these "corporate" things you use excel for is the equivalent of using paint instead of photoshop. WTH do you use excel instead of programs that have been built ground up to specialize in that stuff? It's absolutely ridiculous what crap is deemed "corporate excel" worthy. Don't get me wrong, i'm absolutely sure it has it's place, but it appears to be the "everything to everyone so I'm only sub par for all roles".

For those of you who disagree, have you used specialized software that was meant to be used for what you're doing instead of excel? If so, how much easier did it make your life? Did you say, "wow, that's just how it should be done."?

Exio · Dec 11, 2012

sinsin07 said:
9000 employes is two NYC inner city high schools. Not much of a reference point.
Fortune 500 companies using ipads

Next.

Yes let's reference an undefined, guess at how many companies are using ipads. It's a shame that the articles or statistics don't disclose what they are specifically being used for. Certainly not much business, I can tell you that.

Maybe the top fortune 500 companies have an ipad in every bathroom stall and have replaced magazines.

esmode · Dec 11, 2012

HenryDJP said:
Oh please, Evernote kicks the crap out of One Note,

Explain? Evernote doesn't even have the basic features that set Onenote apart - a free flowing canvas that actually works like a real note. That's a huge benefit if you actually want to do something that you can't do better in Word or Pages. Evernote has terrible layout and drawing capabilities and those are often necessary for brainstorming and note taking.

Evernote just creates really basic linear documents, and manages them with a TOC. Some of the word processing apps actually create better notes. The only thing great about Evernote was cloud syncing and great multiplatform support, but that's no longer the case.

HenryDJP said:
especially since it's very Mac/iOS centric

What does that mean?

HenryDJP said:
and is syncs everything from the cloud free of charge.

Onenote also does this since version 2010, and it's free of charge. In addition it can sync over private networks and just to the local machine free of charge.

File - New - Store Notebook On: Web.

or

File - New - Web Location:

Exio · Dec 11, 2012

Ryth said:
Apple is delivering the device and user base. That itself is worth 30% easily.

Microsoft's world is shrinking. The desktop is dying. The laptop is dying. The next frontier is tablets and Apple got there first...not Microsoft.

So again, it's not hard to figure out. Microsoft doesn't hold any cards here. Apple has the eco-system and the device segment locked down.

And yes, the devices itself ARE a big deal.

Enough with the desktop and laptop dying. Your'e absolutely delusional if you think that modern tablets have the capabilities to replace them.

There's a reason the app store is marketed and pioneered by games, and other useless consumer junk.

There's ton's of business specialization on the software side that can only be run through a standard computer, such as CAD. Even beyond that, it comes down to efficiency, a laptop for all intensive purpose will always be more efficient when trying to do work.

The other aspect that kills the remote chance tablets had of replacing desktops, is apple's obsession with design, specifically width. Year after year, they cut down the size and weight of their products; why they don't leave them the same and compensate with bigger batteries and more processing power is beyond me. The only viable answer to that question is apple is a consumer company, and in doing that they give up any chance at business marketshare.

raremage · Dec 11, 2012

ThatsMeRight said:
I don't know who at Microsoft decides what's going to happen, but imagine that there's an executive that says "fine", and "we'll just launch it for free on Android (and Windows Phone)".

I think I would do that if I was in charge of Microsoft. Just to annoy Apple.

It's already available for free on Windows Phone, and has had basically zero impact. It's also included on the Surface RT Tablet. Sales of that have been slow, to put it kindly.

At the end of the day Microsoft is trying to bring a product to an existing platform that has a huge installed base; for this reason, it's in their best interest to get it out there. Not the other way around. Apple is not likely to lose significant customers if there's no Office for iOS. It doesn't exist now, and people still flocked to the iPad.

Exio · Dec 11, 2012

bungiefan89 said:
Probably serious. I'm a college senior majoring in journalism, and I really don't like/need Microsoft Office. The applications take far too long to start up and are filled with bells and whistles I don't need at all or don't use the vast majority of the time.

In fact, I've been a heavy writer since my early days in high school and since then I've used TextEdit almost exclusively and OpenOffice.org when I needed something like a word count.

I really love Power Point, but it doesn't deliver anything I need that I can't get for free from Google Drive.

And Excel is fine for the people who really need it for data entry and stuff, but I find the application very unfriendly to new users like me. And if you're SERIOUS about making a graph for a presentation, you should really be using Adobe software, instead of Excel which can knock out a graph really quick but is incredibly restrictive when it comes to adorning your graph with labels.

Basically, Microsoft Office is good software, but there are many people out there like me who've found perfectly feasible work-arounds that don't require giving more money to Microsoft and still satisfy all of our needs just fine.

This whole post can be summed up by two words. "I'm a journalist."

Of course you don't have a use for office, your not part of the corporate world. What do you think journalists did pre-computer? Ah you guessed it! Paper and Pen!

----------

raremage said:
It's already available for free on Windows Phone, and has had basically zero impact. It's also included on the Surface RT Tablet. Sales of that have been slow, to put it kindly.

At the end of the day Microsoft is trying to bring a product to an existing platform that has a huge installed base; for this reason, it's in their best interest to get it out there. Not the other way around. Apple is not likely to lose significant customers if there's no Office for iOS. It doesn't exist now, and people still flocked to the iPad.

Consumers* flocked to the ipad. Consumers who I dare say, care more about angry birds and accessing e-mails from their couch.

raremage · Dec 11, 2012

Ryth said:
We're using Keynote/Numbers...have no issues with them on iOS or OSX. Lots of people use Google Docs.

MS is not needed. It's just a suite that many people are brainwashed into thinking they need to have..when you show them other options that work and they actually try to use them.

It's just that MS has created this stigma that you cannot survive without them in the workplace and that is just absolutely false.

But if they want to put out an iOS app to make people feed secure and comfortable, then honestly they should...because they'd make a ton off people that don't educate themselves on other solutions...just like MS has done in the corporate and government sectors.

The thing is - there are still many, many things that you can do with Excel that one just cannot do with Numbers. Numbers is 'Excel Lite' when it comes to advanced accounting functions and spreadsheets, not to mention macros and programability.

Entire ecosystems have been built using VBA (the integrated programming language in Office) and expecting people to simply move to Pages and Numbers and leave all of that behind - when these two apps don't begin to approach the levels of automation that are available in Office - is a facile viewpoint. Sorry, but it's just impractical at the moment.

----------

Exio said:
This whole post can be summed up by two words. "I'm a journalist."

Of course you don't have a use for office, your not part of the corporate world. What do you think journalists did pre-computer? Ah you guessed it! Paper and Pen!

----------

Consumers* flocked to the ipad. Consumers who I dare say, care more about angry birds and accessing e-mails from their couch.

I own a technology consulting firm - a small one, but we work with enterprise clients as well as the SMB and SME space. The iPad has gained a huge footprint over the past couple of years, and it continues to do so. Niche environments are also leveraging the iPad for business functions - think doctors, statistics collection, restaurants, and POS. It's just going to continue to expand.

Assuming that lack of Office availability is going to stop this growth - well it just doesn't make sense. Having said that, making Office available will continue to push the iPad into new and more diverse business environments, as well as allowing Microsoft to further expand it's Office installed base.

d0vr · Dec 11, 2012

I'm a little confused. Is apple wanting 30% of the subscription fees? If so, that's bollocks. Microsoft should just stick to a subscription purchase needing to be made online (via safari) and releasing free apps. Apple gets nothing that way if I understand how the App Store rules work.

Though I imagine Apple would do everything they can to block an app like that going through. I think apple really need to change how they charge developers. Yes, they have provided an amazing platform for developers and consumers alike. Yes they deserve compensation, but 30% to use their billing solution and to an extent, limited publicity (there are a lot of apps out there now to compete with) is ridiculous!

I think 10% for subscriptions is fair (5% for billing and five for the honor of being in the App Store/convenience). 30% is fine if Apple is hosting all the content that the user is downloading. But in this case, they're not. I'm genuinely concerned Apple will lose out in the long run if they don't look into this. Charge a premium, but don't completely rip of the developers who are the ones that add value to the Apple ecosystem.

KanosWRX · Dec 11, 2012

WhySoSerious said:
there is no need for MS Office for most people. most people can do just fine with Pages/Numbers/Keynotes.

just like most people can do just fine without rooting their phone/tablet. only the hardcore need Office or Android.

Lol, everyone and there mom wants office on their iPads. What are you smoking?

Honestly this is going to hurt Apple more then they know. It will just push more people to the surface.

dba415 · Dec 11, 2012

drewyboy said:
Can someone PLEASE explain what is so magical about excel? Seriously, some of the crap I hear people doing on it, I'm think you've got to be kidding. Most of these "corporate" things you use excel for is the equivalent of using paint instead of photoshop. WTH do you use excel instead of programs that have been built ground up to specialize in that stuff? It's absolutely ridiculous what crap is deemed "corporate excel" worthy. Don't get me wrong, i'm absolutely sure it has it's place, but it appears to be the "everything to everyone so I'm only sub par for all roles".

For those of you who disagree, have you used specialized software that was meant to be used for what you're doing instead of excel? If so, how much easier did it make your life? Did you say, "wow, that's just how it should be done."?

There is no point arguing with someone with no understanding of what he is talking about. Absolutely none. This post right here shows a humongous amount of ignorance.

Tiger8 · Dec 11, 2012

basesloaded190 said:
It's a slippery slope if you let one developer in with different rules than what the rest are playing by.

Not true. Bigger clients always get discounts - how else does Walmart gives you insane prices? They get discounts from all consumer goods companies.

viacavour · Dec 11, 2012

iOS's strengths is in data gathering, transactions, sales and marketing front.

Integration with Exchange, Excel, PowerPoint will be interesting in the long run. Then again what can iPad Office do ? Show us the goods first.

Other software companies like Google, Apple, Evernote and other startups won't sit idle if there is an opening.

GQB · Dec 11, 2012

Stella said:
Well microsoft, use this to your advantage.

Release Office only for mobile windows and leverage that face: MS office available only on microsoft powered phones and tablets, great for businesses and consumers alike. The best compatibility between your desktop and tablet, at a level iOS cannot achieve.

So they should sell 90% fewer copies in order to make 30% more on the 10% they do sell.
Smart.

koban4max · Dec 11, 2012

you know MS want office subscription (which is doomed to fail) because of pirating.

mr.bee · Dec 11, 2012

Keynote and pages are perfect to replace word and power point, for 90% of the corporate world.

Numbers lacks in comparison to excel. No decent pivots, no macros, no programability. And those functions are used by at least 70% of the corporate world.

There actually is a pivot function in numbers, but it sucks! I think :apple:

doesn't want to pay for the patents behind those functionalities, so they try to make their own, is that possible?

I fear they really are going to drop the ball with losing excel.

Bill Killer · Dec 11, 2012

To all the people complaining that Microsoft would release a crippled, or limited, version of Office - that option is already available. It's called Apple iWorks.

Black Magic · Dec 11, 2012

Mak47 said:
I've seen this argument over and over again, and as far as PC replacement is concerned you and everybody else who makes it is right.

However, you're all missing the point of the iPad and iPhone and why they are growing for businesses.

First, iPhone has already been adopted by businesses and is the dominating force as far as enterprise smartphones are concerned. The primary concern here is email, calendar & contact access. Nobody is editing documents on 3.5-4" screens and they're not relying on them to view documents either. Existing apps that allow users to view these documents in a pinch are more than satisfactory.

Some people view the iPad as a replacement for a PC, others don't. Many view it as an additional piece of equipment and issue both a laptop and an iPad to their employees. More common however is employees buying their own iPads and using them for work, also called BYOD. They seek out the applications they like and use them as they please. Software choices are not forced on them by their IT departments.

iPads that are issued by companies are often used for things other than what conventional PC's are used for. They give the user access to an entire library of things like catalogs, PDF documents, photo galleries, video demos and the like. The devices are much easier to use for sharing things like these with customers and partners than a laptop could ever hope to be. The battery lasting all day long is a major positive as well.

A lot of companies issue laptops to employees instead of desktops now. This way the employee can have a full PC while they're at the office, but can also move to different rooms or take the work home with them.

Many people assume companies are choosing a desktop, portable computer and a smartphone. I'd say this is inaccurate. Portables are replacing desktops.

Microsoft Office for iPad would be welcome by many I'm sure, but not having it isn't going to keep iPads out of enterprise. They're already there and the people who use them love them. The same can't be said for their Windows PC's.

A reasonably priced MS Office application would likely be bought by most iPad owners, but it's not going to be a deal breaker for most people. If it is, it's just the first reason on the list of reasons not to buy one. Once it's available, they'll replace that with another reason.

What Apple really needs to do here is do a better job of promoting awareness of iWork. Most people don't even know what it is, but if they actually tried it (particularly for Pages and Keynote) they'd never go back to Office again.

I think you are right on many things here. Mobility is the key. I do think PCs are dying though. The enterprise is moving away from them and going with laptops. iPads and iPhones are seeing significant growth in the enterprise and MS Office is still not available. This is forcing folks (Execs and such) to find alternatives and they are realizing that Office is not truly needed anymore. This hurts Microsoft more than Apple by holding out on Office. Microsoft licensing in the enterprise is expensive as well.

On the home front, I see people buying their families iPads and tablets, Moving away from the traditional desktop setup where you are replacing parts and need a tech to come fix it. With a tablet like the iPad you turn it on and everything is easy. Microsoft should be scared and they are.

Sadly, Ballmer thinks that they can still call shots and bully companies like the good old days. They are finding out the good old days are gone.

Bill Killer · Dec 11, 2012

drewyboy said:
Can someone PLEASE explain what is so magical about excel? Seriously, some of the crap I hear people doing on it, I'm think you've got to be kidding. Most of these "corporate" things you use excel for is the equivalent of using paint instead of photoshop. WTH do you use excel instead of programs that have been built ground up to specialize in that stuff? It's absolutely ridiculous what crap is deemed "corporate excel" worthy. Don't get me wrong, i'm absolutely sure it has it's place, but it appears to be the "everything to everyone so I'm only sub par for all roles".

For those of you who disagree, have you used specialized software that was meant to be used for what you're doing instead of excel? If so, how much easier did it make your life? Did you say, "wow, that's just how it should be done."?

I cannot stress how incorrect you are about so many things in this post.

Google Excel vs. Numbers. The overwhelming support for the gold standard, in terms of usability, quality, and corporate acceptance, is strikingly in favor of Excel. And they'll tell you why.

If you want a short, simplified reason why Numbers is such a failure compared to Excel:

Numbers is very good at making pretty graphs from simple information input. Excel is excellent at real quantitative analysis that reaches beyond the typical Financial Accounting and Statistics 101 community college courses.

seek3r · Dec 11, 2012

sinsin07 said:
The point of the link is to get of your a$$ and do you own research if you really want to know.

Say that again...

Image
It would seem Microsoft needs Apple platform more than Apple needs Microsofts Office products on IOS.

You should take your own advice, that's *net* profits (and it's nto completely correct even then). All of the companies on the tier below Apple on your diagram plow a lot more into R&D and most more into payroll than Apple does for ex (including blue sky stuff that Apple doesn't do at all, they also spend more on charity). It also doesnt count things like dividend spending, etc

Microsoft spent 2 quarters of Apple's profit last year on R&D alone (literally an order of magnitude more than Apple did on the same BTW)

viacavour · Dec 11, 2012

Bill Killer said:
I cannot stress how incorrect you are about so many things in this post.

Google Excel vs. Numbers. The overwhelming support for the gold standard, in terms of usability, quality, and corporate acceptance, is strikingly in favor of Excel. And they'll tell you why.

If you want a short, simplified reason why Numbers is such a failure compared to Excel:

Numbers is very good at making pretty graphs from simple information input. Excel is excellent at real quantitative analysis that reaches beyond the typical Financial Accounting and Statistics 101 community college courses.

Microsoft Excel is great. Web-based Google Excel not so much. Numbers is limited in data handling and advanced features, but the native app is snappy.

I am interested to see if Wolfram will use their engine to do a low cost spreadsheet like math and graphing package though. Do they have one already ?

Quu · Dec 11, 2012

If Microsoft has already written the suite like everyone assumes then Apple kind of has them over a barrel. On the one hand, Apple doesn't really need it, iPads and iPhones are already selling like hot cakes and on the other hand they already know Microsoft has written the software and will likely cave to get back their investment.

It all looks good in Apples favour really. Now personally I don't want Office for me the iPad isn't really a great input device typing on the touch screen is "okay" but I certainly wouldn't use it for anything lengthy. For that reason iWork fits the bill it's cheap and is there for just editing and reading what you've written on your Mac. I just don't see how Office would really fit in to my life.

Are some of you that want office actually willing to type out long blocks of text on that iPad screen? Am I in the minority here? I mostly just use mine as a consumption device, Music, Movies, TV Shows, Books, Surfing the Web & playing games. Not really any content creation.

Microsoft and Apple Facing Off Over Office for iOS Subscription Revenues, Not SkyDrive

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