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Scylax

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2009
101
0
I have never used excel so forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to achieve, but couldn't you use a combination of Scrivener's outline view, keywords, and collections to achieve this?

It's easy to add custom metadata to the outline for showing everything side by side, and if you use the index cards for summaries of findings it can auto-populate it anyway. The other way I can think of is to use a combination of keywords and collections to gather the items you need together, then view them in the outline, index cards or scrivenings, depending on how you choose to organise your information. Using subdocuments to hold key quotes or summaries of a pdf text is something I find very useful for being able to collect and see exactly what I want, and only that, at any given time.

I'm worried I'm not being clear about my meaning here, but I know I could also be missing the point as I'm not aware of excel's functions, so I'll stop rambling, but I can try to be clearer if it might be helpful.
 

jojoba

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Dec 9, 2011
1,584
21
I have never used excel so forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to achieve, but couldn't you use a combination of Scrivener's outline view, keywords, and collections to achieve this?

It's easy to add custom metadata to the outline for showing everything side by side, and if you use the index cards for summaries of findings it can auto-populate it anyway. The other way I can think of is to use a combination of keywords and collections to gather the items you need together, then view them in the outline, index cards or scrivenings, depending on how you choose to organise your information. Using subdocuments to hold key quotes or summaries of a pdf text is something I find very useful for being able to collect and see exactly what I want, and only that, at any given time.

I'm worried I'm not being clear about my meaning here, but I know I could also be missing the point as I'm not aware of excel's functions, so I'll stop rambling, but I can try to be clearer if it might be helpful.

Thanks, Scylax, yes you might be right. I need to dive more fully into all the features of Scrivener. I've used it quite a lot of article preparation and have imported literature notes and articles so I can work with them side by side with my main text, but I haven't tried to actually organise my literature review notes within Scrivener as such. I'm going to explore some of your suggestions. Is this how you organise your notes?
 

exegete77

macrumors 6502a
Feb 12, 2008
529
6
Until 2008 I was an expert in Excel working for a Fortune 100 company. It is very powerful and flexible, but it is not efficient for this type of work. Scrivener is by far the better choice.
 

Scylax

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2009
101
0
Yes, I use Scrivener for almost everything, really, both fiction and university essays and research.

I generally do start out in Skim (the free PDF annotation software), where I highlight any key quotes I find. Then, I save the PDF and annotations as a single PDF, and also export the highlights I have made. I drag the PDF into Scrivener, usually just in an 'articles' folder, then make new documents for each quote or point, and make them sub-documents to the main PDF so that I can always go back and check the surrounding source.

I also write a brief summary of the main points of the article on the index card.

I name the article as [Author (date)], and the quotes as [Author (date) ascending quote number]. I tag the quotes depending on the key point of them - as an example, in an essay on Martial's portrayal of Roman baths, I used keywords to distinguish the areas each epigram focussed on, such as time, heat, gender, etc. I did the same for quotes from both primary sources and secondary articles. I create a collection for each keyword, and also for any I want to be able to look at together. This is also brilliant for dealing with quotes that deal with a number of themes, as they can show up in as many collections as you want them in without disturbing the 'real' order in the binder.

When I write, I then split the screen vertically. On the left, I have the document I am typing in, on the right, I have the 'articles' folder in index card view so that all my summaries are visible. If I want to analyse information, looking at what all my sources have said about a single topic, I can simply switch to looking at the related collection, in scrivenings view with titles visible, so that they are all together but I can always see who wrote them.

It does take some work to set up, but it's much quicker than it sounds and very easy to do, and it works wonders for me. If I try to miss out steps, I soon find I want and need them again, and am far more organised and in control with them!

I don't personally make use of the outlining view much, but from your screenshot of your excel database it looks like you might want to have a look at adding custom metadata and using that. I gave it a quick try in a sample project earlier and it seems to work okay for very simple sorting, such as by date, whereas collections work better (for me at least) for analysing themes.

I hope this makes sense! It works really well for me at least. If you want me to clarify anything, message me and I can maybe send some screenshots or something. But make use of Scrivener's forums - there are people there who are way more knowledgeable than I am.
 

jojoba

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Dec 9, 2011
1,584
21
Yes, I use Scrivener for almost everything, really, both fiction and university essays and research.

I generally do start out in Skim (the free PDF annotation software), where I highlight any key quotes I find. Then, I save the PDF and annotations as a single PDF, and also export the highlights I have made. I drag the PDF into Scrivener, usually just in an 'articles' folder, then make new documents for each quote or point, and make them sub-documents to the main PDF so that I can always go back and check the surrounding source.

I also write a brief summary of the main points of the article on the index card.

I name the article as [Author (date)], and the quotes as [Author (date) ascending quote number]. I tag the quotes depending on the key point of them - as an example, in an essay on Martial's portrayal of Roman baths, I used keywords to distinguish the areas each epigram focussed on, such as time, heat, gender, etc. I did the same for quotes from both primary sources and secondary articles. I create a collection for each keyword, and also for any I want to be able to look at together. This is also brilliant for dealing with quotes that deal with a number of themes, as they can show up in as many collections as you want them in without disturbing the 'real' order in the binder.

When I write, I then split the screen vertically. On the left, I have the document I am typing in, on the right, I have the 'articles' folder in index card view so that all my summaries are visible. If I want to analyse information, looking at what all my sources have said about a single topic, I can simply switch to looking at the related collection, in scrivenings view with titles visible, so that they are all together but I can always see who wrote them.

It does take some work to set up, but it's much quicker than it sounds and very easy to do, and it works wonders for me. If I try to miss out steps, I soon find I want and need them again, and am far more organised and in control with them!

I don't personally make use of the outlining view much, but from your screenshot of your excel database it looks like you might want to have a look at adding custom metadata and using that. I gave it a quick try in a sample project earlier and it seems to work okay for very simple sorting, such as by date, whereas collections work better (for me at least) for analysing themes.

I hope this makes sense! It works really well for me at least. If you want me to clarify anything, message me and I can maybe send some screenshots or something. But make use of Scrivener's forums - there are people there who are way more knowledgeable than I am.

Wow, that was brilliant, thanks so much for explaining in detail! I'll be testing this out. Thanks again, much appreciated.

----------

Until 2008 I was an expert in Excel working for a Fortune 100 company. It is very powerful and flexible, but it is not efficient for this type of work. Scrivener is by far the better choice.

Yes, that's kind of what I was thinking when I started this thread - there has to be a better alternative! And now I've found a couple :)
 

jojoba

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Dec 9, 2011
1,584
21
So, I've been playing around with different solutions over the past weeks while reviewing literature, and here's the current state of my work flow which I think I will be holding on to for a little while:

I've decided to keep the excel sheets. I still find them great for providing a quick/one glance overview over a large body of literature. One of the advantages I find with it, compared to Omnioutliner, is that I can freeze the first few rows (that contain the author name and name of publication), and I also find sorting the entire sheet to be quicker as long as you're only sorting based on one column.

I use iAnnotate and Sente for annotating and extracting quotes from articles. That hasn't changed. The tagging function in Sente is my main tool for pdf management and organisation.

I now use Circus Ponies notebooks for literature notes. I find that the easy navigation, the sync with my iPad, and the ability to create links between different pages serve my needs very well. When I import quotes there, I just mark the quotes with a different colour. I drag a link to each pdf into the notes page, for easy reference. I haven't figured out how to link it directly to the Sente file with annotation, but I'm assuming that can be done.

I'm using Omnioutliner to sort data and to 'cut the cake' on different sub portions of literature (for example, different analytical approaches in the literature to phenomenon X). I really like the flexibility OO provides for that kind of work.

I'm still using Scrivener as my main writing tool, and am importing literature notes there from CP Notebooks as needed for whatever I'm writing. However, I still really like the set up that Scylax described above so I'm still planning to test that out.

Thanks for the input, everyone! I'm much happier with my set up now.
 

Dellu

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2012
10
0
Norway
integration of CP Notebooks and Sente

So, I've been playing around with different solutions over the past weeks while reviewing literature, and here's the current state of my work flow which I think I will be holding on to for a little while:

I've decided to keep the excel sheets. I still find them great for providing a quick/one glance overview over a large body of literature. One of the advantages I find with it, compared to Omnioutliner, is that I can freeze the first few rows (that contain the author name and name of publication), and I also find sorting the entire sheet to be quicker as long as you're only sorting based on one column.

I use iAnnotate and Sente for annotating and extracting quotes from articles. That hasn't changed. The tagging function in Sente is my main tool for pdf management and organisation.

I now use Circus Ponies notebooks for literature notes. I find that the easy navigation, the sync with my iPad, and the ability to create links between different pages serve my needs very well. When I import quotes there, I just mark the quotes with a different colour. I drag a link to each pdf into the notes page, for easy reference. I haven't figured out how to link it directly to the Sente file with annotation, but I'm assuming that can be done.

I'm using Omnioutliner to sort data and to 'cut the cake' on different sub portions of literature (for example, different analytical approaches in the literature to phenomenon X). I really like the flexibility OO provides for that kind of work.

I'm still using Scrivener as my main writing tool, and am importing literature notes there from CP Notebooks as needed for whatever I'm writing. However, I still really like the set up that Scylax described above so I'm still planning to test that out.

Thanks for the input, everyone! I'm much happier with my set up now.

Hi
I like the whole discussion here. I was considering to use excel, just like you explained above. I am using Sente for organizing and annotating my PDFs, and Scrivener for drafting. I also have CP Notebooks. But, I find CP Notebooks a bit rigid (linear) to do the task of comparing and analysing notes exported from Sente ( though i really like the Multidex/keywork feature of CP Notebooks). Your excel seems very efficient. Can you update us how you integrate CP Notebooks with the notes exported from Sente?
There are two scripts that can export notes from Sente:

1. one of them export all the notes as a single file
2. the other does export each of the notes as independent files, under a folder

I like the latter kind because I can tag each piece of paragraph (note) in Devonthink or Scrivener, even inside the Finder, as I have explained in my blog. But, I am not sure if Scrivener is the best tool to collect, organize, analyze and compare my notes. I just want to know how are you doing these things?
are you still sticking with the excel?

(you can have a look at how I integrate Devonthink and Scrivener here;
http://dellu.wordpress.com/2012/12/05/synchronize-devonthink-and-scrivener/)
 
Last edited:

jojoba

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Dec 9, 2011
1,584
21
Hi
I like the whole discussion here. I was considering to use excel, just like you explained above. I am using Sente for organizing and annotating my PDFs, and Scrivener for drafting. I also have CP Notebooks. But, I find CP Notebooks a bit rigid (linear) to do the task of comparing and analysing notes exported from Sente ( though i really like the Multidex/keywork feature of CP Notebooks). Your excel seems very efficient. Can you update us how you integrate CP Notebooks with the notes exported from Sente?
There are two scripts that can export notes from Sente:

1. one of them export all the notes as a single file
2. the other does export each of the notes as independent files, under a folder

I like the latter kind because I can tag each piece of paragraph (note) in Devonthink or Scrivener, even inside the Finder, as I have explained in my blog. But, I am not sure if Scrivener is the best tool to collect, organize, analyze and compare my notes. I just want to know how are you doing these things?
are you still sticking with the excel?

(you can have a look at how I integrate Devonthink and Scrivener here;
http://dellu.wordpress.com/2012/12/05/synchronize-devonthink-and-scrivener/)

Hi there,

Until recently, I partially typed up/ partially copied and pasted literature notes in CPN, but now I'm going to get more systematic about exporting notes from Sente as RTF and then importing into CPN.

As for excel, I'm keeping that on the side but I don't use it systematically with everything I review - it depends a bit on what kind of review I'm doing. If it's an empirical review, I find the excel approach quite useful. If it's more of a conceptual review, I prefer to use mind maps as a non linear alternative for note taking - I've written more on how I do that here. In general, CPN is my main hub for literature notes, and Curio for brainstorming and outlining writing processes and for sorting data (even if some of the content within those apps might have been produced somewhere else, such as OmniOutliner or a mind mapping app).

While I think Scylax's system above sounds very good, I use Scrivener mainly as a writing tool. Therefore, I just import notes and literature to my Scrivener projects as needed (i.e., the particular sources I need for a given article), as pdfs, word docs or images.
 

exegete77

macrumors 6502a
Feb 12, 2008
529
6
the best tool to collect, organize, analyze and compare my notes.

If this is the primary focus, then consider Tinderbox. Yes, it is expensive, but no other tool compares to it when trying to do this sort of work. It is by far the most flexible, because you can build the database as you go and you don't need the structure before you start. The structure will emerge as you collect, analyze, compare, and organize your data.

Take a look at some of the videos, and blogs that describe how people have used Tinderbox.

And you will never outgrow TB.
 

Dellu

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2012
10
0
Norway
Tinderbox?

If this is the primary focus, then consider Tinderbox. Yes, it is expensive, but no other tool compares to it when trying to do this sort of work. It is by far the most flexible, because you can build the database as you go and you don't need the structure before you start. The structure will emerge as you collect, analyze, compare, and organize your data.

Take a look at some of the videos, and blogs that describe how people have used Tinderbox.

And you will never outgrow TB.

Yah, I recognize you are from exegete company. I was even impressed when I recognized you wrote about Scrivener. Thank you for that.
That is right; I have already learned a lot about Tinderbox. I have been struggling with it for a couple of weeks. I finally end up with frustration, not because it is expensive, nor the learning curve as many people complain. I like the challenge. I was so enthusiastic to learn a new brilliant software. I bought the book The Tinderbox way, downloaded the user manual. I was totally excited for the adventure: finally to learn its unfortunate incapabilities.

The most frustrating of all was the fact that it couldn't import notes with images. I havn't seen any app that could't import RTDF files in the last year, in the mac world. Tinderbox couldn't, was so unbelievable to me.

I also tried some more times, just to give it a chance> comes another issue: character recognition. It marks every fi ( as in specific) character as some alien entity: "Tinderbox was unable to parse this file"complains all the time.

The developers also claim integration with Scrivener. But, that is still incapable< images are still stripped off, even from Scrivener. This is ugly! really ugly!

Thanks for your comment though.
 
Last edited:

Dellu

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2012
10
0
Norway
Hi there,

Until recently, I partially typed up/ partially copied and pasted literature notes in CPN, but now I'm going to get more systematic about exporting notes from Sente as RTF and then importing into CPN.

As for excel, I'm keeping that on the side but I don't use it systematically with everything I review - it depends a bit on what kind of review I'm doing. If it's an empirical review, I find the excel approach quite useful. If it's more of a conceptual review, I prefer to use mind maps as a non linear alternative for note taking - I've written more on how I do that here. In general, CPN is my main hub for literature notes, and Curio for brainstorming and outlining writing processes and for sorting data (even if some of the content within those apps might have been produced somewhere else, such as OmniOutliner or a mind mapping app).

While I think Scylax's system above sounds very good, I use Scrivener mainly as a writing tool. Therefore, I just import notes and literature to my Scrivener projects as needed (i.e., the particular sources I need for a given article), as pdfs, word docs or images.

Thank you for replying. Oh, you are the guy from http://macademise.wordpress.com/. yah, I already like your blog; have followed some of your advises. (the only thing that disturbs me about your system is the fact that you include too many tools into your workflow, sounds a bit destructive: minimizing the number of tools is very crucial to me). I hope you will write how you are integrating sente with CPN.


thanks!
 

Dellu

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2012
10
0
Norway
I drag the PDF into Scrivener, usually just in an 'articles' folder, then make new documents for each quote or point, and make them sub-documents to the main PDF so that I can always go back and check the surrounding source.

If you use Sente, this task could be automatic: the scripts export each quote as separate file, into a folder, including the pdf file in it. It can help you kill the manual labor of creating new documents for each of the quotes.

Very nice workflow, by the way.
 

exegete77

macrumors 6502a
Feb 12, 2008
529
6
Yah, I recognize you are from exegete company. I was even impressed when I recognized you wrote about Scrivener. Thank you for that.
That is right; I have already learned a lot about Tinderbox. I have been struggling with it for a couple of weeks. I finally end up with frustration, not because it is expensive, nor the learning curve as many people complain. I like the challenge. I was so enthusiastic to learn a new brilliant software. I bought the book The Tinderbox way, downloaded the user manual. I was totally excited for the adventure: finally to learn its unfortunate incapabilities.

The most frustrating of all was the fact that it couldn't import notes with images. I havn't seen any app that could't import RTDF files in the last year, in the mac world. Tinderbox couldn't, was so unbelievable to me.

I also tried some more times, just to give it a chance> comes another issue: character recognition. It marks every fi ( as in specific) character as some alien entity: "Tinderbox was unable to parse this file"complains all the time.

The developers also claim integration with Scrivener. But, that is still incapable< images are still stripped off, even from Scrivener. This is ugly! really ugly!

Thanks for your comment though.

Have you seen this thread on TB Forums? Images in TB
 

jojoba

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Dec 9, 2011
1,584
21
Thank you for replying. Oh, you are the guy from http://macademise.wordpress.com/. yah, I already like your blog; have followed some of your advises. (the only thing that disturbs me about your system is the fact that you include too many tools into your workflow, sounds a bit destructive: minimizing the number of tools is very crucial to me). I hope you will write how you are integrating sente with CPN.


thanks!

Yes, we meet here too :) In terms of CPN integration, I either export my annotated notes as RTF from Sente, or I annotate the pdf file in iAnnotate and export the annotations from there. Then I import the notes into CPN. So, Sente or iAnnotate are used to do the mark up for individual articles, CPN is used to gather all my literature notes, to create links between them (by linking different pages with each other), and to create more meta level analytical notes that are organised by theme/ concept/ theory rather than by source/ individual publication.

Yes, I do use a variety of apps, especially for note taking and organising thoughts and ideas. For a while I was really trying to cut down on the number of apps, like you are, but then I started feeling that I was missing out on some of the features that particular apps had to offer. Therefore, I now create content in different places, but I have two hubs where they 'end up': CPN for all literature notes, Curio for managing writing projects, Sente for organising PDFs, OmniFocus for task management, Evernote for managing project work like conference planning or research group activities.
 

Dellu

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2012
10
0
Norway
Have you seen this thread on TB Forums? Images in TB

My issue is not about images per se, rather about importing notes that contain images in them...RTDF files.
I read inside Skim or Sente, quote and snap the texts, export them in RTDF format; Tinderbox couldn't import them; all other note-taking apps do it with no single problem.
 

Dellu

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2012
10
0
Norway
Yes, we meet here too :) In terms of CPN integration, I either export my annotated notes as RTF from Sente, or I annotate the pdf file in iAnnotate and export the annotations from there. Then I import the notes into CPN. So, Sente or iAnnotate are used to do the mark up for individual articles, CPN is used to gather all my literature notes, to create links between them (by linking different pages with each other), and to create more meta level analytical notes that are organised by theme/ concept/ theory rather than by source/ individual publication.

Yes, I do use a variety of apps, especially for note taking and organising thoughts and ideas. For a while I was really trying to cut down on the number of apps, like you are, but then I started feeling that I was missing out on some of the features that particular apps had to offer. Therefore, I now create content in different places, but I have two hubs where they 'end up': CPN for all literature notes, Curio for managing writing projects, Sente for organising PDFs, OmniFocus for task management, Evernote for managing project work like conference planning or research group activities.

thank you so much. That is so good explanation. You actually convinced me to use Omnifocus: now it is part of my workflow, and I like it :p
-are you planning to write about your experience with Curio in your blog? I would like to hear about it. I will probably keep things in Scrivener in place of Curio+CPN. For the rest, I think we have now almost the same workflow (and also I use DT in place of evernote). Things are getting better for me too, leaned a lot in the last few months. I found sente very helpful, both for reading and organizing the PDF.
I will check your blog.

Grateful for your helpful comment!
:D
 

RSL

macrumors regular
Nov 6, 2012
124
0
Wow great software in this thread, I didn't even know existed! I'll have to check it out.

Personally I organize literature in folders in an old fashioned way. But I never work with too many references at the same time. I find that there aren't that many great papers for any given subject.
 

jojoba

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Dec 9, 2011
1,584
21
If you use Sente, this task could be automatic: the scripts export each quote as separate file, into a folder, including the pdf file in it. It can help you kill the manual labor of creating new documents for each of the quotes.

How do you export the pdf file together with the text files? The script I use only exports the notes.

thank you so much. That is so good explanation. You actually convinced me to use Omnifocus: now it is part of my workflow, and I like it :p
-are you planning to write about your experience with Curio in your blog? I would like to hear about it. I will probably keep things in Scrivener in place of Curio+CPN. For the rest, I think we have now almost the same workflow (and also I use DT in place of evernote). Things are getting better for me too, leaned a lot in the last few months. I found sente very helpful, both for reading and organizing the PDF.

Great, glad you're liking OmniFocus and getting your work flow sorted! I think OF is a very powerful tool.

A Curio post has been on my list for a while now, and will come at some point before Christmas. I like all the options it offers for organising ideas in a nonlinear way. I do all my actual writing in Scrivener, though, and import the files I need there.
 

Dellu

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2012
10
0
Norway
How do you export the pdf file together with the text files? The script I use only exports the notes.

There are two scrips out there to export notes from Sente>
1. for Devonthink< i think you are using this one
2. to Scrivener: i found this one a way better for 3 main reasons:
a. it keeps the pdf inside
b. it can keep the link back to sente library, inside the notes
c. each note (qoute) is exported separately, as an individual file. Very helpful to work inside Scrivener. you can get it here
---
Since you are working inside CPN, the idea of separate files might be uncomfortable. I have tried it before. the individual files don't go well with CPN. One solution is to import the files into a Devonthink and Merge together (DT has the feature) before you import them in CPN.
 

jojoba

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Dec 9, 2011
1,584
21
There are two scrips out there to export notes from Sente>
1. for Devonthink< i think you are using this one
2. to Scrivener: i found this one a way better for 3 main reasons:
a. it keeps the pdf inside
b. it can keep the link back to sente library, inside the notes
c. each note (qoute) is exported separately, as an individual file. Very helpful to work inside Scrivener. you can get it here
---
Since you are working inside CPN, the idea of separate files might be uncomfortable. I have tried it before. the individual files don't go well with CPN. One solution is to import the files into a Devonthink and Merge together (DT has the feature) before you import them in CPN.

Thanks, Dellu, that's the script I'm using.
 

macgrl

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2008
1,192
5
Hello all,

i'm looking for a piece of software to store articles either in pdf or word form. I would like to have the ability to make a few notes about the article..key words etc so that I can search them.

I am doing a phd so lots of articles and cases to read...I tend to take notes with good old pen and paper but would want to store the articles and be able to search through them.

What is best?
 

nonns

macrumors member
Sep 10, 2008
82
48
Alternative content storage applications

Consider also thebrain
http://www.thebrain.com/products/thebrain/

for the purposes of general content storage and organisation.

Its available for the mac and the pc.

I have no personal connection with this company but have used the software on the pc for organising thoughts, content and generating ideas. I would suggest that its probably best for sorting out high level content and structure but i have no doubt that experts could tell you how to utilise it for structured low level technical content generation.

I'm more of a high level concept person but hey we can't all be perfect :eek:
 

jojoba

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Dec 9, 2011
1,584
21
Hello all,

i'm looking for a piece of software to store articles either in pdf or word form. I would like to have the ability to make a few notes about the article..key words etc so that I can search them.

I am doing a phd so lots of articles and cases to read...I tend to take notes with good old pen and paper but would want to store the articles and be able to search through them.

What is best?

For my research, I use a combination of Sente, which I've written about here, iAnnotate, which I've written about here, and Circus Ponies Notebook, which I've written about here.

As an alternative to Sente, you could check out Papers and Bookends.

Sente doesn't do full text search yet, which is rather annoying, but I think they are working on integrating it. Sente, Papers and Bookends will all allow you to make annotations (although not very advanced ones); out of the three I prefer Sente because it has a nice quote function where you can quote parts of the text and add comments at the same time. .

Consider also thebrain
http://www.thebrain.com/products/thebrain/

for the purposes of general content storage and organisation.

Its available for the mac and the pc.

I have no personal connection with this company but have used the software on the pc for organising thoughts, content and generating ideas. I would suggest that its probably best for sorting out high level content and structure but i have no doubt that experts could tell you how to utilise it for structured low level technical content generation.

I'm more of a high level concept person but hey we can't all be perfect :eek:

This was a new app for me, thanks for sharing!
 
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