Intel's 'Haswell' Desktop Processors Detailed for Spring 2013 Launch

Badagri said:

Q3 - 4 2013. What the heck, capital Q ends up lower case after every edit.

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It might be a shouting (all caps) filter. But yes, it is going to be a long wait for any Apple computer hardware.

I should be able to reuse my DDR3-1600 from my Lynnfield system for my Haswell one. DDR4 is a no show unless you are on Xeon until 2014/2015.

Pianoblack3 said:

Something tells me you'll be waiting a lot longer than that!

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Correct. Haswell should appear in 2Q of 2013, and Apple waits usually >= 6 months before they use the CPUs in new Macs.

MatthaiosSaraj said:

How about a Sandy Bridge-E in Mac Pro. I would buy that. I don't need a server cpu.

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Some of them are shared between workstations and servers. When you say "server cpu", do you mean EX/E7 as those are specifically for servers and have no Sandy Bridge equivalent. Otherwise they're shared to a degree.

Eidorian said:

I have not seen a mention of mobile yet.

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If Apple takes their usual path, they'll keep selling Ivy imacs until mobile Haswell becomes available, as they tend to release notebooks first. Desktop Ivy was out first this time too. I don't think they meant to release the imacs this late. It's likely that they intended to debut them at the mini event with immediate availability. With how much they were delayed they could have probably pushed the redesign off to Haswell. That may have also allowed for a panel update, although I haven't looked at what LG has been making that would allow for a decent sRGB configuration. Some of the 10 bit panels could probably be locked to that assuming a fairly even distribution of hardware values, although dithering seen in some of them suggests that this isn't the case.

unobtainium said:

I'm hoping Haswell will enable Apple to build a retina MBA.

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You've seen the rMBP 13 right? That's essentially an Air with extra ports and not wedge shaped. Small enough for me, but wish it had a discrete GPU for "docked" scenarios.

I think Apple could just improve the screen quality (not resolution) on the Airs and keep them as a value line.

willcapellaro said:

You've seen the rMBP 13 right? That's essentially an Air with extra ports and not wedge shaped. Small enough for me, but wish it had a discrete GPU for "docked" scenarios.

I think Apple could just improve the screen quality (not resolution) on the Airs and keep them as a value line.

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I'd consider the rMBP if it got both lighter and cheaper next year with Haswell. Not holding my breath though.

I suppose....

that can make down the number of posts/threads about when can Haswell come out and the guessing with Haswell it, Haswell that

iMacFarlane said:

Hopefully, they'll aim for early summer with the next model. Production problems handled, Haswell available, restore iMac cycle to where it belongs in the year, etc. This is the model I'm shooting for. Passing for now.

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My thinking exactly.

LagunaSol said:

You can never have too much processor speed. Pro or layman.

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True to certain degrees. For the layman, there is a point of diminishing returns.

LagunaSol said:

You can never have too much processor speed. Pro or layman.

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Intel already drew that line at US$300. They've been on it for years now.

Mr. Retrofire said:

Correct. Haswell should appear in 2Q of 2013, and Apple waits usually >= 6 months before they use the CPUs in new Macs.

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What makes you say that? Ivy Bridge was released in late April and was in Macbook Pros by mid-June.

I'm really hoping for early summer Haswell Macbook Pros. It's not 'less performance, better power consumption' as some people have suggested. It is projected to have a marginal processing bump with vastly improved graphics to rival mid-low end discrete GPUs and lower power consumption.

Considering the HD4000 is basically the reason I'm holding off on a new 13" Macbook Pro, I'm really looking forward to Haswell.

alfistas said:

Games are only half of it. Most new CAD programs require a decent GPU. What am I to do with an intel HD4000??

This is an inconvenience for me as the cheapest mac with modern day graphics costs almost €1500.

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If you make money with CAD, you buy one of the “standard” HP or Lenovo (IBM) workstations for > 10.000,- US$.

0815 said:

While I am sure, there are power users that need faster and faster processors, I think the majority does not.

If I would have the choice of upgrading a HDD to SSD or getting the latest, greatest, fastes processor, I would get the SSD - as a matter of fact, I upgraded all my machines to SSD and the effect is much better than getting a faster processor. Just wish they drives would get bigger and cheaper faster.

Nevertheless, good to see the processor technology is not standing still, even though it is no longer the big bottleneck in computers these days.

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Such a going point. I have a iMac i7 3.4 27-Inch (Mid-2011) 12GB RAM (no SSD) and a MBA 1.7 i5 (Late-2011) 4GB RAM – guess which launches Adobe apps, restarts, and shuts down the quickest. The difference is staggering. Agreed, I just wish the cost would come down.

Eidorian said:

It might be a shouting (all caps) filter. But yes, it is going to be a long wait for any Apple computer hardware.

I should be able to reuse my DDR3-1600 from my Lynnfield system for my Haswell one. DDR4 is a no show unless you are on Xeon until 2014/2015.

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We could see DDR4 in consoles before it sees widespread PC use.

chrmjenkins said:

We could see DDR4 in consoles before it sees widespread PC use.

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eDRAM is much more popular to make up for the shortcomings of the available hardware and keep build costs down.

Eidorian said:

eDRAM is much more popular to make up for the shortcomings of the available hardware and keep build costs down.

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eDRAM would actually likely be paired with DDR4 to make up for the fact it still isn't fast enough. If they go GDDR5, they're less likely to use eDRAM. XDR2 is an exotic unlikely option too.

Come on in : http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=31379&page=654

chrmjenkins said:

eDRAM would actually likely be paired with DDR4 to make up for the fact it still isn't fast enough. If they go GDDR5, they're less likely to use eDRAM. XDR2 is an exotic unlikely option too.

Come on in : http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=31379&page=654

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People like to bring up the exotic options like XDR2. eDRAM has its place, a lot like existing on-die cache, to shore up the hardware and with crazy wide buses to make up for the lack of actual large capacity. You are probably still going to DDR3/L for some time. You also have build costs to take a look at. eDRAM saves that being on-die with the MCMs becoming more popular and then cheap as dirt DDR3 or L for system level memory and maybe if you need lower power applications.

Haswell Xeon (2014) is still probably going to be the first major use given how fresh the DDR4 specifications still are.

Renzatic said:

Haswell isn't that big of a deal as far as the iMac goes. It'd be nice if you were dead set on getting the 21" rev with the integrated GPU, I guess But overall, Haswell is only a modest spec bump as far as desktops are concerned.

Like guy said above, it's in laptops like the Air where it truly shines. Much better battery life, an integrated GPU good enough to be considered a decent mid-line contender without chewing up any power. It's all good. Potentially, a Haswell MBA could equal and surpass a current 13" MBP without sacrificing much of anything.

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Broadwell, which I believe is the rev where Intel will be focusing all their attention on GPU performance.

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This!! Haswell is what you are going to want in your laptop, not so important for an iMac. I will upgrade my 2011 MBA when Haswell is out.

xizdun said:

Why no Haswell for Macbook Pros?
I'm patiently waiting for Haswell so that I can invest in a rMBP 2nd gen with Haswell in 2013... or is that wishful thinking?

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That's my plan, depending on the ability of the integrated graphics to drive the screen.

:-o
Is it just me, or did processors get a LOT faster in the past couple of years after a lot of slow progress?

pgiguere1 said:

I think a lot of people are waiting for the mobile CPUs more than this.

I'm especially interested in seeing the kind of performance the 10W Haswell CPUs will be able to achieve.

The upcoming 10W Ivy Bridge Y series already gives us an idea:

Image

They went for the same iGPU and same L3 cache as the 17W series which is a good thing.

Compared to 17W CPUs, you're basically getting 88% of the clock speeds for 58% of the power consumption / heat dissipation. Pretty good tradeoff.

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I like that Intel is focusing on optimizations and efficiency.

I wonder how many generations is it going to take before the mobile CPUs don't require fans, just heatsinks to keep them cooled.

faroZ06 said:

:-o
Is it just me, or did processors get a LOT faster in the past couple of years after a lot of slow progress?

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+3.0 GHz on the desktop side is pretty common. Hitting or breaking 4.0 GHz is overclock or Turbo Boost territory. Then you have the usual IPC improvements from architecture.

Nehalem/Lynnfield saw a drop to under 3.0 GHz from Penryn but "clock speed" numbers are back up again.

alfistas said:

Games are only half of it. Most new CAD programs require a decent GPU. What am I to do with an intel HD4000??

This is an inconvenience for me as the cheapest mac with modern day graphics costs almost €1500.

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Edit: teach me for not reading the small print. More fools me.

Although, it still shows that a functionally identical unit can go through and not only pass, but get a recommended tag. So it cannot be all that bad.

faroZ06 said:

:-o
Is it just me, or did processors get a LOT faster in the past couple of years after a lot of slow progress?

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Eidorian said:

+3.0 GHz on the desktop side is pretty common. Hitting or breaking 4.0 GHz is overclock or Turbo Boost territory. Then you have the usual IPC improvements from architecture.

Nehalem/Lynnfield saw a drop to under 3.0 GHz from Penryn but "clock speed" numbers are back up again.

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The bubble burst with Netburst and we've been slowly climbing since then. Intel really floundered and had a bad couple of years (relatively speaking). However, ever since the Core 2 architecture, the tick-tock strategy has paid off extremely well for Intel.

layte said:

Intel HD4000 is certified for AutoCAD.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servle...8254205&id=18844534&product=56&os=8192&hw=263

None of the gaming GPU's used in Apple's portable computers are.

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That's because an identical version of said GPUs (sometimes more RAM) with a different firmware that go for at least double to triple the price are the ones that are certified

chrmjenkins said:

That's because an identical version of said GPUs with a different firmware that go for double to triple the price are the ones that are certified

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Bah! Not quick enough with my edit.

layte said:

Edit: teach me for not reading the small print. More fools me.

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That's under Windows. Under OSX Autodesk usually certifies a range of Macs with their software. They typically skip over the minis, airs, and 13" macbook pros.