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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:29 PM   #76
WhoDaKat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Oh dear.

Thanks for that highly insightful response. I feel truly enlightened.


(and FYI, there's a difference between 'hate filled ignorance', and 'pissed off with companies trying to bottle out of their mistakes and people being dumb enough to believe it')

Everyone makes mistakes. I just wish the likes of Apple, Google (heck lets throw MS and Samsung, and Sony in here as well) would actually be slightly more PR friendly instead of attempting to act as if nothings wrong, and everything went to plan.
You mean like a public apology for dropping the ball? How would that work for ya? Oh, and Apple didn't release a statement saying Ha Ha we outsmarted Google! This is just people with the intellectual capacity to recognize business savvy when they see it. Turns out its dumb to hate someone for trying to turn a negative into a positive.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:34 PM   #77
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Wouldn't Google rather have it that the default, native app on iOS was Google maps? I'm sure a lot of people will be using the Google app but I'm sure a lot of people will also use Apple maps if they haven't experienced an issue.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:40 PM   #78
samcraig
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Originally Posted by WhoDaKat View Post
Yes I'm so sure that you are. I don't have to worry about whether your talking out your &&#$ or not, due to that whole critical thinking and logic thing. But seriously... I'm sure you are what you say you are! LOL Cause no one lies on the internet.
Ok. I got it. You're just interested in flamebaiting. You'll have to find someone else to play that game with.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:40 PM   #79
TuffLuffJimmy
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
We don't know what kind changes the SDK will require for Google and asking your customers to download Google maps versus just using the Apple apps that work with Siri and the rest of the OS isn't going to happen. Your asking for your app to be deleted.
To use Google Maps in an app would not require downloading Google Maps. The only thing that would require downloading Google Maps would be actually sending the user to Google Maps. Obviously, a good developer would check what apps are installed on the device and give the user a list of appropriate apps to open the call in. This is how many apps allow the user to open files in many other apps (dropbox, iPhoto, Pages, Keynote, etc).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
They don't but if you think consumers are going to be happy with a web view of Google Maps i've got a bridge to sell you. Google Maps is good...it's not THAT good.
It's hard to believe so many people could be making such uninformed statements. The web view is only a lower quality user experience because the display is created in web technologies which aren't up to the standards of native code. The maps data itself is the same as the data displayed in a native app. The native app experience and display of Google Maps would be much better, because it would use a native code display vs the web version.

The user does not have to download a separate app (Google Maps) in order for other developers to take advantage of Google Maps. Even if the user did download Google Maps there is no way for two apps to integrate in such a way for another app to take advantage of Google Maps.
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Last edited by TuffLuffJimmy; Dec 13, 2012 at 04:46 PM.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:43 PM   #80
firewood
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Originally Posted by tomashi View Post
Just because consumers came out ahead does NOT mean Apple planned this.
Apple is not one person (especially with Steve gone). Inside Apple's Byzantine management cobweb, some managers are probably much better poker players than others (such as the fired maps manager, for instance?).
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:43 PM   #81
reden
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My Apple Fanboy Radar broke on this one.

What makes you believe a company would spend millions upon millions in infrastructure to launch something as aggressive as this just to make google update its map app? Give me a break.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:47 PM   #82
rmwebs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDaKat View Post
You mean like a public apology for dropping the ball? How would that work for ya? Oh, and Apple didn't release a statement saying Ha Ha we outsmarted Google! This is just people with the intellectual capacity to recognize business savvy when they see it. Turns out its dumb to hate someone for trying to turn a negative into a positive.
Timeline of events:

- Apple release Apple Maps, having invested millions of dollars in it
- Apple admit Apple Maps is borked
- Google confirm they are working on their own solution
- Google confirm they have little hope for it being approved
- Despite all odds, Apple approve the app. (and good on them for doing so)

Lets get something clear:

- I'm very glad Apple were willing to approve the app.
- I'm very glad Google released the app.
- I'm even more glad that developers now get to choose to integrate Google Maps or Apple Maps, instead of having one or the other forced on them by Apple.

I'm not happy about this series of events being claimed as a 'victory' for anyone. This is not part of some elaborate plan that Apple conceived, it's just how everything worked out. We now have options. If Apple maps works great for you, fantastic - use it. For those outside the US who cant rely on it, we'll use Google Maps, and be just as happy with it.

From Apples point of view if they didn't approve the app, Google would have obviously made an announcement saying 'well we did make an app, but they rejected it' - that would cause even more negative publicity for Apple, so they really had no choice. Google had/has the upper hand here.

There's simply no way you can compare Google Maps and Apple Maps however - they are in a completely different league.

Last edited by rmwebs; Dec 13, 2012 at 04:52 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:47 PM   #83
csanctis
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You got to be kidding

This is article is as ridiculous as it can be!
How can you say that Apple would create a crap product/service, so that some else would create a BETTER one? Are you out of your mind?

If Steve Jobs was alive, the whole map team would be jobless by this time!

Only a blind person would be fooled by what this article is trying to say!
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:48 PM   #84
samcraig
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
The most reasonable explanation is that it was a simple negotiation. Apple wanted access to additional data for vector maps, turn-by-turn, etc. Google wanted something in return that Apple was unwilling to give them. They couldn't come to an agreement, so they parted ways in this area.
Exactly. But please - by all means - let's go grab some popcorn and watch the tin foil hat parade!
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:50 PM   #85
Breckenridge
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No iOS integration makes the iPhone still look and feel weak when compared with an android.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:50 PM   #86
rmwebs
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
You mean an SDK that isn't even available yet? That's not going to happen. Switching from a Google backend to a Apple Maps backend required very little code changes. We don't know what kind changes the SDK will require for Google and asking your customers to download Google maps versus just using the Apple apps that work with Siri and the rest of the OS isn't going to happen. Your asking for your app to be deleted.
Generally Google do provide a pretty good maps SDK and API for other platforms. You will be able to add Google-based maps to your iOS app without the user even needing Google Maps installed. There's simply no way a developer will use Apple Maps if the option to use the tried and tested Google Maps is there, especially since it's also free.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:52 PM   #87
brianbobcat
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
The Loop reader Keith Huss shared an interesting look at how the Apple Maps fiasco actually turned out really well for end users, now that Google Maps has gone live on iOS.

In the end, Apple has gotten exactly what it wanted for its users when it introduced its own mapping solution: turn-by-turn directions and lots of choice in mapping. Additionally, Apple is prominently displaying third-party map apps on the App Store (with Google Maps at the front), and delivering perhaps the best maps experience on mobile.
Cool story bro.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:56 PM   #88
koban4max
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Apple sucks bad. If they intended to do some psychology on us...might as well be straight forward and remove apple's version of the map. I hate to have apps that I won't be using on my phone/ipad.

Tim knew that Steve was right about the map. They can't make maps... Steve mentioned in one of youtube video that it was better to depend on other companies that have extensive background on maps.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:03 PM   #89
Breckenridge
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Originally Posted by csanctis View Post
This is article is as ridiculous as it can be!
How can you say that Apple would create a crap product/service, so that some else would create a BETTER one? Are you out of your mind?

If Steve Jobs was alive, the whole map team would be jobless by this time!

Only a blind person would be fooled by what this article is trying to say!
Steve is dead. Yes, even Apple can make crap, remember iOS 6? Apple Pippin? Performa Mac line? OS9? iPod HiFi? Apple 3?
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:06 PM   #90
nuckinfutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Generally Google do provide a pretty good maps SDK and API for other platforms. You will be able to add Google-based maps to your iOS app without the user even needing Google Maps installed. There's simply no way a developer will use Apple Maps if the option to use the tried and tested Google Maps is there, especially since it's also free.
Google is tried and tested though it's not perfect and it's given me outdated addresses and poor directions. It's the nature of the beast.

That being said a developer using Google's Maps over the native solution is begging and pleading for their app to deleted. Apple being the plucky upstart means they've got nothing but upside. The gap will close quicker than people think.

I'm not going to go through a bunch of steps to use Google Maps when I can just hold my phone up and tell it to take me to XYZ location.

Developers are free to re-create the wheel...and fail in the process.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:07 PM   #91
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Never thought I'd have to use for an article itself on MacRumours, but this is tragic.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:08 PM   #92
rmwebs
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Google is tried and tested though it's not perfect and it's given me outdated addresses and poor directions. It's the nature of the beast.

That being said a developer using Google's Maps over the native solution is begging and pleading for their app to deleted. Apple being the plucky upstart means they've got nothing but upside. The gap will close quicker than people think.

I'm not going to go through a bunch of steps to use Google Maps when I can just hold my phone up and tell it to take me to XYZ location.

Developers are free to re-create the wheel...and fail in the process.
It really is never going to be that complicated to switch between the two. You could probably provide both Google Maps and Apple Maps in the same app if you so desired - its not really that big of a deal to switch.

I really dont see how the gap will close quickly though. We're comparing a 100 man team to a 7,100 man team, with their own satellites, thousands of streetview cars, hundreds of UAV aircraft, and millions of users more (thus more people reporting issues).
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:16 PM   #93
wschutz
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Originally Posted by SamGabbay View Post
Reverse reverse triple reverse psychology.

Good move by Apple indeed.
LOL. It was not any good move... this is just some BS to actually make a defeat look like a victory.
Apple clearly wants to get rid off Google from its ecosystem, and this was one of the last moves (the next one would be the search engine... but that's rather difficult for Apple). Apple baked a poor application and got it out hoping for people to love it just because it is from Apple, and it failed.

There is no strategy, there is failure from Apple. And now, not only it is failure but public shame. Google won again, and now whatever Apple does will be useless because either it will copy Google's easiness or it will just make a try.

Accept it, or keep believing what you really want to believe... that Apple made a good move, LOL.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:21 PM   #94
old-school
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Great news. It's another replacement for me.

Now I've got:
Clear instead of reminders
Chrome instead of safari
Fantastical instead of calendar
Spotify instead of music

Clock and mail might next.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:30 PM   #95
blewbot
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Thumbs down Except...

Except that iOS is under lockdown and I cannot choose to used Google Maps as a default mapping solution.

For example. Clicking on a address link in mail or Messages will take to me Apple Maps... not to Google.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:31 PM   #96
bketchum
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I couldn't help read the story with a Jon Lovitz Tommy Flanagan voice.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:32 PM   #97
Carmenia83
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I dont think this was the "plan" all along, but either way its a win for Apple and their customers. Google wanted turn-by-turn to be one of Android's edges over the competition. Now Google has openly admitted that their new iOS app is better than the one on Android. Im glad to see it back on iOS, but I think it was a stupid move by Google.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:35 PM   #98
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Not Really a "Spin"

I don't think this guy is trying to say that Apple planned this from the beginning. He's just pointing out that in the end game, Google did exactly what they refused to do and users win because of it.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:37 PM   #99
Uncle David
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Apple has nothing to fear.

If you're a developer you likely not going to extend a bunch of effort to skip Apple's Map API and write to Google when you can't guarantee that the end user has Google Maps installed on their iDevice.

Basically this move is great. It shuts people up but there's no chance that Google can make a beachhead against the native Mapping solution. People, by and large, are going to go with what came with their phone.
I'm a large person and yet, within minutes of downloading the app...



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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:37 PM   #100
samcraig
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Originally Posted by FrogsterDude View Post
I don't think this guy is trying to say that Apple planned this from the beginning. He's just pointing out that in the end game, Google did exactly what they refused to do and users win because of it.
My personal objection is your word choice of refused. I suppose you could state that they refused to give TbT - but that's not the full story, is it? Talks broke down between Apple and Google about the direction of Google Maps. You could just as easily say Apple refused to allow Google TbT functionality. It would also only be part of the story.
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