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Old Dec 13, 2012, 03:15 PM   #251
cclloyd
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I guess I should have explained that I mean the app stores more.

iOS Store, from my experience, has much better quality apps, most of which without advertising.

Google Play has from what I've seen on my dad and bro's phones, lower quality, less refinement, and usually brightly colored or intruding ads.

It's just, from what I've experienced on both OS's that iOS and it's app store is much higher quality.

Plus all android phones I've held except for the SIII feel like cheap plastic.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 03:46 PM   #252
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Apple has been playing the high profit low market share game, just like it did during the PC era. Today's Apple is of course much much stronger than 80's with huge cash supply, but the danger is just the same.

At some point the number of Android devices will outnumber Apple so much, they will take the ecosystem lead. Galaxy S3 sold 30 million in roughly half a year? Nexus 4/7 has huge demand with its low price.

It is going to be a tough, tough battle for Apple to maintain its profit margins. Keep in mind Apple is worth more than Google and Microsoft combined, the second their margin drops they have a lot of room to fall.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 03:56 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by hitmantb View Post
At some point the number of Android devices will outnumber Apple so much, they will take the ecosystem lead.
What makes you think so? 72-14 is a pretty big difference as it is. And Apple still has all of the advantages that normally would go to the market share leader.

I think it's much more likely that Android will begin to fragment into more clearly divided ecosystems. I could even see Microsoft eating into their market share.

I also think the Samsung-Google dynamic will be interesting as Samsung continues to dominate all Android device profits.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:15 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by XboxMySocks View Post
When there is over 500 phones competing with one (okay, 2) phone, I'd say barely having market share over them is not winning.
Isn't choice a wonderful thing?

Android is the right choice for more people than IOS, and part of that is that there is a wider choice for hardware.

I know that every time I say choice, that someone in Cupertino kills a kitten.

Choice, choice, choice.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:28 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Isn't choice a wonderful thing?

Android is the right choice for more people than IOS, and part of that is that there is a wider choice for hardware.

I know that every time I say choice, that someone in Cupertino kills a kitten.

Choice, choice, choice.
Eh?
The hell are you babbling on about?
I'm not talking about choice here.
I'm talking about comparing 500 different phones, and saying they "dominate the marketshare" over one phone. Choice don't enter into it.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:32 PM   #256
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Lets put this in perspective.

Each iOS user generates, for Apple, a minimum of $250 per year in revenue (ie. hardware sales, phone company kickbacks, iTunes purchases, ad kickbacks from Google, etc.).

Each Android user generates, maybe, $4.00 per year in ad sales for Google. (Note: Each iOS user generates more revenue for Google than that..)

If that is really Mr Schmidt's definition of "winning" - then either a) you aren't as smart as you appear to be or b) you are fibbing through your teeth.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:41 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmantb View Post
At some point the number of Android devices will outnumber Apple so much, they will take the ecosystem lead.
If Android users aren't paying for Android apps, the ecosystem will go nowhere. It doesn't matter how many non-paying customers you acquire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmantb View Post
Keep in mind Apple is worth more than Google and Microsoft combined, the second their margin drops they have a lot of room to fall.
Apple makes more money than Google and Microsoft combined. Hence they are valued accordingly.

What's Google's margin on Android, pray tell?

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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
I also think the Samsung-Google dynamic will be interesting as Samsung continues to dominate all Android device profits.
Samsung will not want to suckle at Google's teat forever. Not when there's more money to be made.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 07:24 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
I don't know what your point is here. (I don't even think it's true. There are plenty of Android models introduced at low price points. As low as $150 without a contract.) My point was that much of Android's market share is made up of devices that are cheaper than the iPhone. You tried to paint the picture that price wasn't a factor.



My opinion is the main reasons Android "is attracting the lion's share of the market" are price and distribution. Not the other stuff you tried to attribute it to. My evidence is AT&T, the one place Android has neither of these advantages.
It is all the stuff, including a free market where multiple companies compete to sell and android device, it is not a "price controlled market" plus technology which is up to 18 months ahead of what's available on the slow paced iPhone.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 07:26 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by XboxMySocks View Post
Eh?
The hell are you babbling on about?
I'm not talking about choice here.
I'm talking about comparing 500 different phones, and saying they "dominate the marketshare" over one phone. Choice don't enter into it.
Wouldn't 500 different models potentially offer more choices? (Screen size, memory, processing power, price, ...) Is it possible that having more choice helps them beat Apple in marketshare?

Apple's "one size fits all" approach reminds me of an old Apple ad that offers a contradiction....



ps: Amazing! That picture was #1 on the results when I Bing'd for "apple ad mini-me basketball"...
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Last edited by AidenShaw; Dec 13, 2012 at 07:32 PM.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 07:39 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by LongTime techie View Post
plus technology which is up to 18 months ahead of what's available on the slow paced iPhone.
Riiight...
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 07:48 PM   #261
SomeDudeAsking
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Originally Posted by vrDrew View Post
Lets put this in perspective.

Each iOS user generates, for Apple, a minimum of $250 per year in revenue (ie. hardware sales, phone company kickbacks, iTunes purchases, ad kickbacks from Google, etc.).

Each Android user generates, maybe, $4.00 per year in ad sales for Google. (Note: Each iOS user generates more revenue for Google than that..)

If that is really Mr Schmidt's definition of "winning" - then either a) you aren't as smart as you appear to be or b) you are fibbing through your teeth.
You have a woefully incorrect guess of how much ads make. Woefully. And to add to that, Google's primary goal with Android is to keep the marketplace competitive in order to avoid repeating a Microsoft dominance of the Web and devices by Apple this time around. If Apple were to actually gain a Microsoft level of dominance, it would greatly hurt Google by stifling Web innovation and locking users into non Google platforms with no way out.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 07:52 PM   #262
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Google's primary goal with Android is to keep the marketplace competitive in order to avoid repeating a Microsoft dominance of the Web and devices by Apple this time around.
Yes, Google cares only for tech equality and justice for all humankind.

Good grief, do you Goofans really believe this tripe you're shoveling?
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 08:06 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by LagunaSol View Post
Yes, Google cares only for tech equality and justice for all humankind.

Good grief, do you Goofans really believe this tripe you're shoveling?
Google cares about being able to choose so you can use the superior, free Google services with ads over Apple's half baked implementations.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 08:06 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by freddiecable View Post
Apple would benefit more from diversifying it's product line more. Like they did with the iPod. Shuffle, nano, touch, classic. Four versions for different needs.

They should do the same - I'm sure there is a demand for:

1. iPhone mini - not very different from the iPod nano but larger. It does not have to be latest A-ship or retina. Just small, sexy, casual and basic. 3.0" or 3.5".

2. iPhone classic - 4". Basically the current iPhone 5.

3. the New iPhone. Like this rumor:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/10/...ge-6-8-colors/

Apple needs to be on the case. Even though Apple earns a lot more money on iOS than Google on Android they still need to have a close eye on user base and market share. There can come a time where simple the share will shrink without diversification.
I agree with this as well. There isn't just one MacBook Pro. Why? Because everyone has different needs. The 13" version works for most people but some need the larger screen of the 15" version. Same with the iPhone. The 4" version would work for most, but some like myself, could REALLY use a larger screen in the 4.5-4.8" range.

I jumped on the Nexus 4 bandwagon to test out Android for a couple months and the size of this screen is PERFECT! Now, if only I could get this size on the iPhone I'd be in heaven.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 08:24 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
You said that you couldn't live with Android's cons. And you chose an Android phone over the iphone.

I'm not sure that I understand. How are you alive?

But if you think that "how simple it works" is a factor that you cannot live without, then my guess is that you are correct.
Obviously I would develop this opinion AFTER I got my S3... plus it's a figure of speech. Simply meaning I was so fed up with Android.

So essentially, I had an iphone 3G, up to 4S, switched over to S3, then back to iPhone 5 because I didn't like Android. Get it?
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 08:35 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by LagunaSol View Post
The Microsoft Brigade will never stop gripping that old chestnut.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 08:41 PM   #267
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Yes - Bill and Melinda are helping to make the world a better place.

Not sure what connection the long-hair in this picture has with "improving the world" though....
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 08:58 PM   #268
Abazigal
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Is it even logistically possible for Apple to gain a majority market share? I doubt they can even supply that many apple products!
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 09:20 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs View Post
If only they were playing the same game....
Bingo. How many hundreds of dollars does GOOGLE get per Android phone? Cause I thought Google licensed the Android OS pretty cheaply. Two of the biggest players in the tablet space (Kindleand Nook) use Open Source versions of Android and pay Google ZIP!

So while I agree Android is doing well and that's good for "the year of desktop Linux"..... That has ZERO bearing on GOOGLE doing well, Google can't MAKE people PAY for it. Where Apple has got eight tracks of "greased lightening" oing to your wallet.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 09:21 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vrDrew View Post
Each iOS user generates, for Apple, a minimum of $250 per year in revenue (ie. hardware sales, phone company kickbacks, iTunes purchases, ad kickbacks from Google, etc.).
We need to look at how often users update and/or what else they buy, like how many buy iPads. I'll leave that exercise to someone with more time. However, to help out whoever does that, here's some info for the base case:

An iPhone user who updates once every two years is generating $100 per year in device profits.

Carriers no longer give Apple kickbacks. Apple does share a tiny part of App Store income with the carriers. Google does kickback a percentage of search revenue to Apple. Average iTunes spending we'd have to look up.

Quote:
Each Android user generates, maybe, $4.00 per year in ad sales for Google.
Using the most recently reported $8 billion a year mobile ad runrate, Android and iOS devices generate an estimated $12 per year in Google ad revenue at this point in time.

Google has stated that the overwhelming majority of that comes from in-app ads, btw. Not mobile search.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 09:35 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by kuwxman View Post
I agree with this as well. There isn't just one MacBook Pro. Why? Because everyone has different needs. The 13" version works for most people but some need the larger screen of the 15" version. Same with the iPhone. The 4" version would work for most, but some like myself, could REALLY use a larger screen in the 4.5-4.8" range.

I jumped on the Nexus 4 bandwagon to test out Android for a couple months and the size of this screen is PERFECT! Now, if only I could get this size on the iPhone I'd be in heaven.
There is NO POINT. One of Steve Jobs comments to Nike CEO was to stop plastering their name on cheap forgettable junk for pocket change in licensing fees.

Apple has a smooth thing going. They dump their money into the most current iPhone being the BEST iPhone they want to sell. They cover the "cheap seats" with the iPhone that was best last year, because Apple has already recovered its RnD, and got the line well-oiled for efficiency.. Those phones are GRAVY for profits and still at the top of the overall industry.

There is no point in Apple developing a "B grade" phone. First, they would have to pay their top engineers to build a "not best" iPhone, then pay Foxconn to build an assembly line for "not best" iPhone. That is BILLIONS spent trying to capture NUMBERS with a product that is already obsolete why do that? Apple wants to spend money moving forward, not looking back at the pack.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Yes - Bill and Melinda are helping to make the world a better place.

Not sure what connection the long-hair in this picture has with "improving the world" though....
Well they left Ballmer in charge of Microsoft... That's been nothing but GREAT for Google and Apple!!!
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 09:46 PM   #272
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Yes, and Moto isn't going to be able to use SEP for injunctions, so how exactly is Moto going to be able to get Apple to pay higher that FRAND? If negotiations between Apple and Moto fail, then the court decides.
Who said Motorola wanted higher than their normal FRAND rate?

Quote:
If anything, Apple is fighting the basis of Moto's SEP, and in fact made an offer not to exceed $1 per device, which Moto rejected.
Motorola did not reject it. The judge decided Apple's max-price condition made it clear that Apple did not want to pay whatever fair rate was decided by a court. So she dismissed Apple's case against Motorola, with prejudice.

Quote:
Moto wants basis to be the finished product. Microsoft and Apple want basis to be at the component level.
While that's understandable, the rate has always been a percentage of the entire device. MS and Apple cannot claim that they're being treated any differently than anyone else for the past decade or two.

Quote:
Apple will end up paying, but almost certainly, much less than Moto wants.
Yep, and also more than Apple wants to

Quote:
Moto is a white elephant as far as IP is concerned.
Could be. Even if Moto managed to get $2 per iPhone times what, 120 million sold per year, that'd still only be a quarter billion a year in royalties. Less than Motorola is losing at this point.

In the same vein, what's Apple making from their $2.6 billion Nortel patent purchase?
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 12:36 AM   #273
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Google's CEO

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It's like he is still the CEO of Google ... Larry Page needs to learn a thing or two from this guy.
Damn, I can be a CEO.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 12:47 AM   #274
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There are more flies than men on the Earth.
Therefore for Eric Schmidt flies rule the planet... ;-)
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:12 AM   #275
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Well for sure. Chevy's sell better that Porsche. Does that mean Chevy is better?
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