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Old Dec 14, 2012, 12:39 PM   #1
cord2
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Rough Road ahead for Apple

Low Blow for Apple-
Shares are tanking and Apple has lost 25% of its value in less than 120 days, ipad sales forecasts are being cut, China's market for ios is stalling, and Apple just had a slew of patents invalidated (which includes the crucial 'Steve Jobs' patent for multitouch, graphical user interface), and recently lost a US Federal court case for patent infringment against a Maryland based compay partially owned by Sony and Nokia regarding its camera, and the way the ios devices handle and reject calls.


for more info see:
Apple's shares swallow biggest loss in four years | Reuters
Apple's Crucial Patent for Multi-Touch Invalidated
Apple loses case to patent licensing firm MobileMedia Ideas
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:47 PM   #2
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I'm sure they'll survive.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:18 PM   #3
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Minor wrinkles for a company worth $623 billion.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 04:40 PM   #4
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again; I really, really hope Apple hits (or at least, gets close to) rock bottom at some point soon. Maybe then they can become the innovative company they once were, instead of their current model of making very small, incremental improvements in existing products and raking in the cash.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 05:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by SkyBell View Post
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; I really, really hope Apple hits (or at least, gets close to) rock bottom at some point soon. Maybe then they can become the innovative company they once were, instead of their current model of making very small, incremental improvements in existing products and raking in the cash.
You know this whole Apple isn't innovating meme is getting pretty tiresome. What exactly is "small, incremental" in your world? And how does one define innovation anyway? To me making a phone with a bigger screen isn't any more innovation than making a phone that's incredibly thin and light but still contains amazing technology. But to some people bigger screen is all that matters.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 05:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cord2 View Post
Low Blow for Apple-
Shares are tanking and Apple has lost 25% of its value in less than 120 days, ipad sales forecasts are being cut, China's market for ios is stalling, and Apple just had a slew of patents invalidated (which includes the crucial 'Steve Jobs' patent for multitouch, graphical user interface), and recently lost a US Federal court case for patent infringment against a Maryland based compay partially owned by Sony and Nokia regarding its camera, and the way the ios devices handle and reject calls.


for more info see:
Apple's shares swallow biggest loss in four years | Reuters
Apple's Crucial Patent for Multi-Touch Invalidated
Apple loses case to patent licensing firm MobileMedia Ideas
I think half the people pushing the Apple is doomed mantra are shorting Apple stock. The same people will be shouting how Apple is poised to do well after they finish shorting the stock. At that point, they will start going long when they can buy a lot of Apple stock cheap (i.e market manipulation).
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 07:58 PM   #7
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I think half the people pushing the Apple is doomed mantra are shorting Apple stock. The same people will be shouting how Apple is poised to do well after they finish shorting the stock. At that point, they will start going long when they can buy a lot of Apple stock cheap (i.e market manipulation).
Already the clowns on CNBC are saying APPL is a great buy for 2013.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 08:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SkyBell View Post
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; I really, really hope Apple hits (or at least, gets close to) rock bottom at some point soon. Maybe then they can become the innovative company they once were, instead of their current model of making very small, incremental improvements in existing products and raking in the cash.
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
You know this whole Apple isn't innovating meme is getting pretty tiresome. What exactly is "small, incremental" in your world? And how does one define innovation anyway? To me making a phone with a bigger screen isn't any more innovation than making a phone that's incredibly thin and light but still contains amazing technology. But to some people bigger screen is all that matters.
SkyBell has a point though. Apple's success has made them stagnant in making wow factor products. The only way they're going to be the Apple they once were is if they do hit rock bottom and are forced to innovate once again. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. Hope that's not the case again.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 08:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
You know this whole Apple isn't innovating meme is getting pretty tiresome. What exactly is "small, incremental" in your world? And how does one define innovation anyway? To me making a phone with a bigger screen isn't any more innovation than making a phone that's incredibly thin and light but still contains amazing technology. But to some people bigger screen is all that matters.
What brought Apple back from the brink not-so-long ago? Those crazy colorful and forward-thinking computers called, "iMac" and "iBook" as the foundation, built upon and expanded by that little music player called an "iPod." Next, we had a laptop that took building material to a whole new level, made of titanium, then aluminum called the "PowerBook G4". And who can forget that undeniably unique lamp, known as the "iMac G4". Hell, I'll even include that device that pretty much changed its' entire market, known as the "iPhone." These are just a few examples, and that's not even touching upon the software side of the equation.

Whatever happened to this Apple? Whatever happened to the company that could completely blow us over with radical new designs and forward-thinking features? Nowadays, we get a faster processor here, a marginally nicer screen there, maybe a slight design tweak or two sporadically thrown in. Software that is either playing catch-up to the competition, is poorly designed or quite frankly, completely unnecessary.

In my opinion, Apple's success has gone to its head... several times over. They no longer have a need to be the best they can be, because everyone knows them, and is willing to settle for less-than amazing. They have billions in the bank; why would they take a crazy risk on something new, when their currant line up is a massive cash cow as it is?

Throw them back to gutter where they once were, and maybe then, and only then, would they have real reason and need to aspire to the creativity and (excuse the horrible cheesiness) magic they showed us just a few short years ago.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:31 PM   #10
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Here's what I remember.

Rumors start that Apple is developing a computer with some weird new interface with something called a mouse.
Community response:
They should stick with what they know well and do best, not try something new.
No one needs that, what we have now is just fine.
That hardware will be too expensive no one can afford it.
Apple didn't invent that that someone else did awhile ago.
It's going to fail miserably, just wait-and-see.
Result after Apples introduction.
A bunch of people like it, buy it, and use it to completely revolutionize their industry (Desktop publishing).
Others copied the concept, no one understands how we could live without it

Rumors start that Apple developing a MP3 player
Community response:
They should stick with what they know well and do best, not try something new.
No one needs that, what we have now is just fine.
That hardware will be too expensive no one can afford it.
Apple didn't invent that that someone else did awhile ago.
It's going to fail miserably, just wait-and-see.
Result after Apples introduction.
A bunch of people like it, buy it, and use it to completely revolutionize an industry (music industry).
Others copied the concept, no one understands how we could live without it

Rumor start that Apple is developing a cell phone.
Community response:
They should stick with what they know well and do best, not try something new.
No one needs that, what we have now is just fine.
That hardware will be too expensive no one can afford it.
Apple didn't invent that that, someone else did awhile ago.
It's going to fail miserably, just wait-and-see.
Result after Apples introduction.
A bunch of people like it, buy it, and use it to completely revolutionize an industry (Smart phone industry).
Others copied the concept, no one understands how we could live without it

Rumor start that Apple is developing a tablet computer.
Community response:
They should stick with what they know well and do best, not try something new.
No one needs that, what we have now is just fine.
That hardware will be too expensive no one can afford it.
Apple didn't invent that that someone else did awhile ago.
It's going to fail miserably, just wait-and-see.
Result after Apples introduction.
A bunch of people like it, buy it, and use it to completely revolutionize an industry (computer industry).
Others copied the concept, no one understands how we could live without it


Any company would be proud to have introduced any one of these revolutions.
Everyone forgets that in between each of the successes there were long periods of "business as usual" and "simple refinement of the product" as well as some complete failures. You have to keep in mind, revolutionizing an industry is not something that is done on a yearly clock.
The fact that one company has done four "revolutionize the industry" products is absolutely astounding.
The concept that if they don't come up with another one, the company is a failure, is beyond my comprehension.
That said, if they do do it again, I would not be completely surprised.

It seems like, even people who live through each of these revolutions, do not remember how it used to be before each, and all the things the community said between the introduction and the success of each one.

Anyway just my two cents.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cord2 View Post
Low Blow for Apple-
Shares are tanking and Apple has lost 25% of its value in less than 120 days, ipad sales forecasts are being cut, China's market for ios is stalling, and Apple just had a slew of patents invalidated (which includes the crucial 'Steve Jobs' patent for multitouch, graphical user interface), and recently lost a US Federal court case for patent infringment against a Maryland based compay partially owned by Sony and Nokia regarding its camera, and the way the ios devices handle and reject calls.


for more info see:
Apple's shares swallow biggest loss in four years | Reuters
Apple's Crucial Patent for Multi-Touch Invalidated
Apple loses case to patent licensing firm MobileMedia Ideas
This may mean that the hype is going away. Hype only made Apple a worse company than it was in the past. This may be a good thing for consumers after all. Apple will struggle to make shares worth more, and that means trying to please consumers more. It was going to happen anyway. The price of the shares went up very fast, and too much. Now it's time to go down.

Apple will not become a smaller company, with less employees, nor will it lose market share due to the shares hitting a lower price. Microsoft was once the biggest tech company in the world, and its products were crap back them. It has much better products right now that its equity value is perhaps 25% of what it has been one day.

Apple may be the largest company by market cap, but that's not real. That's just hype and speculation. It's not the real world. Apple is not the largest company in the world, nor the largest tech company. It is just a very successful and profitable company, with a small range of products that sell very well. And it will remain being that no matter the price of its shares. This information is relevant only to investors, not to consumers.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cord2 View Post
Low Blow for Apple-
Shares are tanking and Apple has lost 25% of its value in less than 120 days, ipad sales forecasts are being cut, China's market for ios is stalling, and Apple just had a slew of patents invalidated (which includes the crucial 'Steve Jobs' patent for multitouch, graphical user interface), and recently lost a US Federal court case for patent infringment against a Maryland based compay partially owned by Sony and Nokia regarding its camera, and the way the ios devices handle and reject calls.


for more info see:
Apple's shares swallow biggest loss in four years | Reuters
Apple's Crucial Patent for Multi-Touch Invalidated
Apple loses case to patent licensing firm MobileMedia Ideas
So you mean Apple is now the same as Samsung, Microsoft, HP, Dell, etc etc etc.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutonius View Post
I think half the people pushing the Apple is doomed mantra are shorting Apple stock. The same people will be shouting how Apple is poised to do well after they finish shorting the stock. At that point, they will start going long when they can buy a lot of Apple stock cheap (i.e market manipulation).
Bingo. Look Apple isn't perfect, no company is...but Apple's fundamentals from a financial/stock standpoint are head and shoulders above all the rest...without question. All this "Apple is doomed...blah blah blah" only proves that the mindless herd movement is alive and well.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 02:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by designs216 View Post
Minor wrinkles for a company worth $623 billion.
Wrong. Apple is only worth $480 billion now. It has seen a major drop in worth over the past couple of months because the Apple fad is dieing.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:12 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by SkyBell View Post
What brought Apple back from the brink not-so-long ago? Those crazy colorful and forward-thinking computers called, "iMac" and "iBook" as the foundation, built upon and expanded by that little music player called an "iPod." Next, we had a laptop that took building material to a whole new level, made of titanium, then aluminum called the "PowerBook G4". And who can forget that undeniably unique lamp, known as the "iMac G4". Hell, I'll even include that device that pretty much changed its' entire market, known as the "iPhone." These are just a few examples, and that's not even touching upon the software side of the equation.

Whatever happened to this Apple? Whatever happened to the company that could completely blow us over with radical new designs and forward-thinking features? Nowadays, we get a faster processor here, a marginally nicer screen there, maybe a slight design tweak or two sporadically thrown in. Software that is either playing catch-up to the competition, is poorly designed or quite frankly, completely unnecessary.

In my opinion, Apple's success has gone to its head... several times over. They no longer have a need to be the best they can be, because everyone knows them, and is willing to settle for less-than amazing. They have billions in the bank; why would they take a crazy risk on something new, when their currant line up is a massive cash cow as it is?

Throw them back to gutter where they once were, and maybe then, and only then, would they have real reason and need to aspire to the creativity and (excuse the horrible cheesiness) magic they showed us just a few short years ago.
Apple's design language has become much more conhiesve and consistent. I think it's classy. Of course others might think its boring or not innovative or forwars thinking enough. But again how does one define innovative? One could argue the manufacturing processes they're using now are more complex than ever. I'm sure Apple would argue the work they're doing in silicon is very innovative and forward thinking. I'm not sure why we dismiss better screens and faster profesors as no big deal. They don't just ' poof' happen. Same with thin and light. Packing all this technology into ever thinner and lighter designs isn't easy.

I don't think it's about Apple's success going to its head, it's about Apple's best salesman no longer being there. Steve had a gift that not many other people have. He could make anything seem like the most magical thing ever. I can just hear him now talking about the exquisite diamond cut chamfers on the iPhone 5 and the complex manufacturing processes used to build the device. Tim Cook and Phil Schiller are no Steve Jobs in that regard.

Also, this year we arguably have more leaks than we've ever had before. So by the time Apple announced something it was no surprise. No surprise comes across as boring and not innovative. What's worse, some of the leaks we got (like the iPhone 5 cases) were not of finished products so they looked like crap. I remember when I got my iPhone 5 thinking how absolutely gorgeous it looked compared to the leaked case photos which looked awful. Cook needs to "double down" on preventing leaks in the supply chain.

Finally if you look at the time between "revolutionary" products under Steve's watch, you had larger gaps. iMac announced in 1998. We didn't see the iPod until late 2001, iPhone 2007 and iPad 2010. But if you listen to the media and Wall Street "analysts" these days you'd think Apple was cranking out revolutionary devices every 6 months under Steve Jobs. Obviously comparing Cook & Co. to that meme (as false as it is) will make it look like the current Apple is stagnat and just resting on it's laurels. Of course Apple may come out with some amazing new product in 2013 that will make us all look like fools for doubtig them.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton70 View Post
Bingo. Look Apple isn't perfect, no company is...but Apple's fundamentals from a financial/stock standpoint are head and shoulders above all the rest...without question. All this "Apple is doomed...blah blah blah" only proves that the mindless herd movement is alive and well.
Yep the meme from Wall Street, the news media, tech press ect. is all D&G and FUD. You hear that long enough and you start to believe it.

The stock will be in the 400s by year end and then come 2013 all these Wall Street clowns will be buy buy buy AAPL.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:53 AM   #15
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In the end, it all come down to this: there are now viable alternatives to the iOS ecosystem on mobile platforms.

The success of the Samsung Galaxy S III and the Google Nexus series of cellphones, not to mention the very positive reaction to the Google Nexus 7 and 10 tablet computers, show that Apple may face very serious competition in the mobile market in 2013. I would not be surprised that Apple is now on a "crash program" to develop a direct hardware competitor to the Galaxy S III (and maybe Galaxy S IV), a new iPhone with at least a 4.5" or 115 mm (diagonal) display and NFC functionality. Also, Apple may evolve both iPad models to use the Sharp IGZO flat panel display, which could substantially cut power consumption, very necessary for the incorporation of faster versions of the A5X A6 chips.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:01 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Plutonius View Post
I think half the people pushing the Apple is doomed mantra are shorting Apple stock. The same people will be shouting how Apple is poised to do well after they finish shorting the stock. At that point, they will start going long when they can buy a lot of Apple stock cheap (i.e market manipulation).
That is the pattern. For example, the OP created his account yesterday to spam the group with a sampling of the current batch of manufactured gloomy spin.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:19 PM   #17
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And the OP has only one post and this be it........ hmmmmm
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rhett7660 View Post
And the OP has only one post and this be it........ hmmmmm
What, you have a problem with my '"1st" post?
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 02:05 AM   #19
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What, you have a problem with my '"1st" post?
Really.............
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 10:34 AM   #20
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In the end, it all come down to this: there are now viable alternatives to the iOS ecosystem on mobile platforms.

The success of the Samsung Galaxy S III and the Google Nexus series of cellphones, not to mention the very positive reaction to the Google Nexus 7 and 10 tablet computers, show that Apple may face very serious competition in the mobile market in 2013. I would not be surprised that Apple is now on a "crash program" to develop a direct hardware competitor to the Galaxy S III (and maybe Galaxy S IV), a new iPhone with at least a 4.5" or 115 mm (diagonal) display and NFC functionality. Also, Apple may evolve both iPad models to use the Sharp IGZO flat panel display, which could substantially cut power consumption, very necessary for the incorporation of faster versions of the A5X A6 chips.
If Apple was so concerned about these larger displays the iPhone 5 would have had it. There's nothing stopping them from doing it other than they think a phone should be a phone and not a phablet. The only thing that would force them to do it is sales data indicating people aren't buying the iPhone because the screen is too small. If we ever get to that point then I could see a larger iPhone.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 05:38 PM   #21
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Everyone wants to fire up the Apple DoomShip. They will be fine.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:32 PM   #22
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... China's market for ios is stalling, ...
iPhone 5 launch results in new weekend record for Chinese market
Apple's push into China is making some inroads, as indicated by the iPhone 5 launch in China this past weekend. The company announced Monday morning that it sold over 2 million iPhone 5 handsets in greater China in the last three days—a new record launch in that market for Apple.
Other manufacturers would kill to have such "stalling".
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:20 AM   #23
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If Apple was so concerned about these larger displays the iPhone 5 would have had it. There's nothing stopping them from doing it other than they think a phone should be a phone and not a phablet. The only thing that would force them to do it is sales data indicating people aren't buying the iPhone because the screen is too small. If we ever get to that point then I could see a larger iPhone.
I think a problem with the iPhone 5 was the fact it was the last device that the late Steve Jobs had a hand in finalizing the design. As such, his insistence on designing the phone so it could be operate by one hand is why is severely limited the size and shape of the touchscreen panel--note the iPhone 5 has a taller display, not a wider display. Also, the lack of NFC means the iPhone can't take advantage of the mobile payment systems widely used in Japan and South Korea.

Now that Jobs is no longer around, I do hope that the hardware successor to the iPhone 5 will now incorporate a wider display and also includes NFC support--something that the latest Android and Windows Phone 8 cellphones now include as standard. They need to, or Apple will be left behind as much of the world starts to switch to mobile payment systems, including the USA with the upcoming ISIS system.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 08:07 AM   #24
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It's funny, you know, because for those of us that have been around longer than the 'iSomething' brigade, this talk is nothing new...

'Apple's Powerbook's are faddy and won't last'
'Apple's iPod is faddy and won't last'

blah blah blah

Fact is Apple has always been a 'faddy' company, every popular device has a period of when it's popular and when it's not....

It's always been cool to hate apple because they have NEVER been the forefront of technology, they have never been the cheapest yet they have always had and still have the best ecosystem.

I know Android does a lot of things but when i can goto a concert, get home and just fire up the videos i recorded right on the TV screen with no p!ssing about with cables or trying to get DLNA to work.... that's where it's at.

Until the next revolution comes (from whom ever invents it) and we are pushed into that.. it's an iterative process, laptops + desktops yesteryear; phone's + tablet this year; next year ??????

What I don't get is if Samsung own a TV division + Smart phone division why can't they do the sort of integration people are rumoring Apple to be doing?
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:42 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
You know this whole Apple isn't innovating meme is getting pretty tiresome. What exactly is "small, incremental" in your world? And how does one define innovation anyway? To me making a phone with a bigger screen isn't any more innovation than making a phone that's incredibly thin and light but still contains amazing technology. But to some people bigger screen is all that matters.
Must we go back into the bigger screen mantra that just makes NO SENSE whatsoever in defending Apple? You don't have to tear down good concepts in phone design to lift up Apple's.

Newsflash! Having a big phone is nice for some.

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.....
Apple wasn't first to pioneer any of those devices. So in fact, Apple took concepts from other companies/pioneers and improved upon them. Much like what folks keep saying certain other companies are doing.

But then again, thinking Apple invented the mouse, the MP3 player, a keyboard-less touch screen square tablet with a mobile/lightweight OS, and a candybar shaped phone with a grid of icons is much easier than Googling.
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