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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:39 PM   #101
zioxide
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Originally Posted by myrtlebee View Post
That's your opinion. Feel free not to read our comments on the matter, then.
You do realize that it's quite impossible to "not read our comments" when they are already in this thread. It's kind of hard to pick and choose which posts to read as you can't know the content of a post without reading it.

Multiple posters, not just me, have asked people who want to start a gun control debate to start a thread about gun control. This thread is supposed to be about the tragedy in CT.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:39 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by myrtlebee View Post
That's your opinion. Feel free not to read our comments on the matter, then.
You do realize that this sentiment has been echoed by others in this thread, including other mods, no? Ignoring your posts leads to multiple topics being discussed here, which will then be forked out to another thread. So why go through all of that then, when it could be alleviated now.

EDIT: Back on topic. CT. Governor and State police spokeperson is now speaking.

20 children between 5 and 10 dead. 18 on site, 2 at local hospitals. 6 adults, including a relative of the shooter, and the shooter.

BL.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:42 PM   #103
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Then with all due respect, start another thread and have that conversation. It doesn't need to be done here, in this thread, just yet.

BL.
Given that Obama raised it in his speech, referring to something needing to be done 'regardless of the politics involved', I think it's completely relevant to this thread.

His tone was perfect. So many parents around the world can find comfort and familiarity in his words: sadness at the tragedy that has occurred today, and anger that it is only one of many cruel incidents.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:42 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by myrtlebee View Post
That's your opinion. Feel free not to read our comments on the matter, then.
Michael Schur said it best:

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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:42 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by bradl View Post
You do realize that this sentiment has been echoed by others in this thread, including other mods, no? Ignoring your posts leads to multiple topics being discussed here, which will then be forked out to another thread. So why go through all of that then, when it could be alleviated now.

BL.
It's not an additional topic. It is the same topic. It is what happened and how to prevent it. Gun violence IS what happened today in CT. What is this thread to be about then, just grieving and news updates? I'm sure we can all read/ watch those for ourselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen of Spades View Post
Michael Schur said it best:

Image

Absolutely. Our prayers and thoughts didn't do much to stop this and other incidents. This thread should be open to conversation on what to do. It is directly relevant to today's events.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:42 PM   #106
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Read a wonderful thing by a politician friend-

"If someone tells me things are so because they are in the Bible, one retort is that things change, societies change, life changes, and we need to respond. Same with the constitution. It was written by men of a certain time not gods.

Sometimes things have to change."
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:44 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by calb View Post
Given that Obama raised it in his speech, referring to something needing to be done 'regardless of the politics involved', I think it's completely relevant to this thread.

His tone was perfect. So many parents around the world can find comfort and familiarity in his words: sadness at the tragedy that has occurred today, and anger that it is only one of many cruel incidents.
I was just going to post the same. And your sentiments are perfect. Thanks.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:44 PM   #108
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WTF, I can't believe you are suggesting that there should've been a shoot out at an elementary school.
Yeah, if a teacher or a security officer was there with a gun, someone could have gotten hurt!
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Originally Posted by r.j.s View Post
3. Why is violence so glorified in our culture? I'm not talking about guns, but violence. Rappers who sing about getting shot or shooting up someone else; why are gangs glorified to our young people? Things like that.
People posting videos of themselves shooting guns on the Internet, looking all cool-like. Things like that.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:44 PM   #109
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20 children, 6 adults, killed plus the shooter at the school.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:45 PM   #110
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I said violence being glorified, but you went with the ad hominem attack on me instead of addressing the issue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
People posting videos of themselves shooting guns on the Internet, looking all cool-like. Things like that.
Since when is sport shooting considered violence?
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:45 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Dagless View Post
Read a wonderful thing by a politician friend-

"If someone tells me things are so because they are in the Bible, one retort is that things change, societies change, life changes, and we need to respond. Same with the constitution. It was written by men of a certain time not gods.

Sometimes things have to change."

There is just no way we could pass a change to the second amendment, let alone any amendment, to our Constitution. We are just too polarized a country.

We'll be left with some laws, that will likely have a sunset provision, that won't address the real issues or problems.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:48 PM   #112
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Yes, Hip Hop and Rambo movies are the problem. Not guns, right?
Ever heard of Oklahoma City? Or the massacre at Bath School, Bath Township, Michigan?
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:55 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
Yeah, if a teacher or a security officer was there with a gun, someone could have gotten hurt!
More people could've gotten hurt. Stray bullets hitting other kids/adults, teachers putting themselves in harms way only to get shot, etc. Teachers aren't law enforcement and really arming our teachers isn't the answer.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:55 PM   #114
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I'm seeing a bunch of reports that CNN and other news agencies misidentified the gunman.

Disgusting. Remember when the news media waited for double confirmation to make sure they had the story right before breaking it? Now they don't care, they just rush to be the first one to report regardless if they have the correct facts or not.

NBC News was just reporting that the shooter was carrying someone else's ID and that the shooter may not be "Ryan Lanza" but actually his brother "Adam Lanza." But none of this has been confirmed by authorities.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:58 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by r.j.s View Post
I said violence being glorified, but you went with the ad hominem attack on me instead of addressing the issue:



Since when is sport shooting considered violence?
Since when is making guns look cool not glorifying violence? You consider it an attack on you? I consider it addressing the issue of our gun culture that you and others already brought up.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by leenak View Post
More people could've gotten hurt. Stray bullets hitting other kids/adults, teachers putting themselves in harms way only to get shot, etc. Teachers aren't law enforcement and really arming our teachers isn't the answer.
Well we will never really know. More could have gotten hurt, or the shooter could have been killed after only a few innocent kids were shot.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:59 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by myrtlebee View Post
That's your opinion. Feel free not to read our comments on the matter, then.
Right because we should let peoples' political agenda overshadow this most horrific event.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:59 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
Since when is making guns look cool not glorifying violence? You consider it a ln attack on you? I consider it addressing the issue of our gun culture that you and others already brought up.
I'm sorry, but sport shooting is not violence, and is not "making guns look cool."
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:01 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by jessica. View Post
Right because we should let peoples' political agenda overshadow this most horrific event.
Calling for a solution and action is not a political agenda. It's common sense.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:03 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by myrtlebee View Post
Calling for a solution and action is not a political agenda. It's common sense.
Does your solution and action require the political process? Then it's politics. Do you plan on doing it? Then it's somewhere on your political agenda.

Still, I find it interesting that anti-gun people get to be anti-gun 365 days a year, but pro-gun people are supposed to shut up on days with mass shootings.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:03 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by bradl View Post
You do realize that this sentiment has been echoed by others in this thread, including other mods, no? Ignoring your posts leads to multiple topics being discussed here, which will then be forked out to another thread. So why go through all of that then, when it could be alleviated now.

EDIT: Back on topic. CT. Governor and State police spokeperson is now speaking.

20 children between 5 and 10 dead. 18 on site, 2 at local hospitals. 6 adults, including a relative of the shooter, and the shooter.

BL.
I don't think you can separate the two topics.

Another point of view.

Quote:
More than a dozen children went to elementary school this morning and were dead before lunch.

White House spokesman Jay Carney says today is not the day to talk about gun control.

I disagree. That's all we should talk about today.

We are heartbroken, yes. But saying that will fix nothing. It won't bring anyone back, and it won't keep this from happening again. And of course we know the parents of Newtown could have been any one of us. That's important to remember, but it isn't enough, because the knowing doesn't change the fact that we could still be next.

So we can't just do as we did after Columbine, after Virginia Tech, after Aurora. We can't just grieve and hold our children close. We have to demand that our country earn the right to call itself a civilized nation. We need to do this because our central job as parents -- maybe our only job, really -- is to keep our children safe so they can grow up. Easy access to guns keeps us from doing that job...

Quote:
We cherish individuality in America. We see raising children as no one else's business, and we have never managed to band together as a "parenting" bloc. It is time. Guns are a parenting issue and we need to control them in the name of the children who died this morning. Even more, we need to do it in the name of their mothers and fathers.

So cry today. Comfort your kids. Curse, and pray. Then pick up the phone, a pen, a keyboard, or your checkbook and make your demands heard. All day and every day. But most especially today.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:05 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by r.j.s View Post
I'm sorry, but sport shooting is not violence, and is not "making guns look cool."
That's your opinion. If you don't think little kids see sport shooting as something that is cool, well, you just don't know many little kids. Kids love guns. They aren't born that way, I'm sure, they see people shooting guns in all types of situations and want to be just like them. Denying we raise our kids in a gun culture here in the USA is just crazy.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:05 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by myrtlebee View Post
Calling for a solution and action is not a political agenda. It's common sense.
Common sense, sure, but still political nonetheless. All of that, regardless of what we wish to call it, overshadows the tragedy.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:06 PM   #123
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There comes a point where you need to do something about the violence pervasive in your society besides strap a Smith and Wesson to your hip and menacingly ask your bedroom mirror if it's talkin to you.

That time was April 20th 1999.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:06 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by WestonHarvey1 View Post
Does your solution and action require the political process? Then it's politics. Do you plan on doing it? Then it's somewhere on your political agenda.

Still, I find it interesting that anti-gun people get to be anti-gun 365 days a year, but pro-gun people are supposed to shut up on days with mass shootings.
It's called compassion.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:06 PM   #125
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Don't forget what happened in China too.
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