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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:13 PM   #401
LIVEFRMNYC
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
I can guarantee you with 99.9% certainy that my guns will never be used by anyone other than myself. I alone am responsible for what they do. The same can't be said for your Bengal Tiger.
Can you guarantee the same for everyone else that shares your interests?

Many laws prevent all of us from doing certain things based on the history of irresponsible actions from others. That's a fact and reality of life, and I'm all for it as long as it's meant for preventive purposes.

BTW: I'm a gun owner myself in NYC and believe heavily in stricter gun laws.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:15 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by jknight8907 View Post
So how do you guys suppose we get rid of these tens of millions of guns? The vast majority are not documented in any way (and are not required to be). Do we go door to door asking people to hand them over? If so, are you expecting the criminals to just say "oh sure, here you go!"?
I would ask a similar question to those who want to ban guns.

Did banning alcohol work?

Did banning illegal drugs work?

Since the answer to both of those questions is no, how would banning guns get a different result?
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:20 PM   #403
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Mike Huckabee, An American Dick

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepol...ings-huckabee/

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Americans should blame their schools, and removal of God from the classroom, for Friday’s murders of schoolchildren in Connecticut, according to former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, a 2008 Republican presidential candidate who is now a pundit and host on Fox News.

Huckabee did not mention guns, gun culture, or assault rifles in talking about the country’s latest mass killing, but said on Fox News:
Unless rules state that the award for "biggest piece of **** in America" can be awarded posthumously, I give it to Mike Huckabee.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:21 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
It's pretty obvious what we should do.
I'll tell you what you should do, borrow John Winston Howard, the former Australian Prime Minister and give him some sweeping powers to get the job done on gun ownership and control.

He is the only one I can think of who would be able to stand up in front of angry people, look them straight in the eye with determination and win them over. He has done it before and he can do it again.

Kids are dieing because of this lack of action, it's horrible. How many more mass shootings must happen? You expect casualties in a war zone, you don't expect casualties in a school, a place where kids are supposed to learn in a safe, happy environment.

That's my only contribution to this topic, I don't have anything further to say and given I work in the education sector, it hits home how terrible this is.


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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:29 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by avro707 View Post
I'll tell you what you should do, borrow John Winston Howard, the former Australian Prime Minister and give him some sweeping powers to get the job done on gun ownership and control.

He is the only one I can think of who would be able to stand up in front of angry people, look them straight in the eye with determination and win them over. He has done it before and he can do it again.

Kids are dieing because of this lack of action, it's horrible. How many more mass shootings must happen? You expect casualties in a war zone, you don't expect casualties in a school, a place where kids are supposed to learn in a safe, happy environment.

That's my only contribution to this topic, I don't have anything further to say and given I work in the education sector, it hits home how terrible this is.


balamw
: Very honourable.
Personally, I agree with you.

Unfortunately, American "society" isn't ready for that. And a good number of people would react violently if such a tactic were attempted.

If course, a number of people are reacting violently regardless.

Such is life and death in the United States.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:41 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by r.j.s View Post
I believe there is already reasonable regulation. Obviously, you do not.

So, where do we go from here?

Do I, as a gun owner, to have to submit myself to whatever new regulations and checks you can dream up - never having to submit yourself to them?
For what it's worth, there are a lot of people in this country who have to submit themselves to the will of people who never have to submit themselves to the regulations they write....
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:51 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by r.j.s View Post
Do I, as a gun owner, to have to submit myself to whatever new regulations and checks you can dream up - never having to submit yourself to them?
Whether or not one chooses to own a gun has nothing to do with the fact that everyone must submit to the regulations.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:15 PM   #408
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Made me sick to my stomach when I heard the news. So much tragedy. So much grief for the relatives.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:19 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by mobilehaathi View Post
Whether or not one chooses to own a gun has nothing to do with the fact that everyone must submit to the regulations.
True, otherwise, gun owners would be criminals.

That doesn't mean I should sit back and let people whom have no intent to ever be subject to said regulations dream up anything and everything they can think of and call it reasonable.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:30 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by r.j.s View Post
That doesn't mean I should sit back and let people whom have no intent to ever be subject to said regulations dream up anything and everything they can think of and call it reasonable.
I'm going to follow your lead and stop paying any taxes that go to schools even though I've never had any children.

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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:32 PM   #411
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I'm going to follow your lead and stop paying any taxes that go to schools even though I've never had any children.

What a ridiculous strawman.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:35 PM   #412
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So sickened and saddened. Awful. My heart is aching tonight.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:43 PM   #413
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What's going on is not enough people in this country are armed to defend themselves. If you look at a country like Switzerland, they have the lowest murder rate in the world. Why? Because after their conscript military service obligation ends, they're given the option to keep their Government issued weapon.
This is entirely inaccurate. Switzerland does not have the lowest murder rate in the world. It is not even in the bottom ten. Several countries with lower murder rates than Switzerland have far stricter gun control. Japan enjoys a murder rate that is half that of Switzerland, where firearm ownership is almost completely forbidden. Switzerland's gun ownership is also almost half that of the United States.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:53 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by r.j.s View Post
What a ridiculous strawman.
Not really.

We all put up with rules and regulations that don't affect every citizen in the same way.

Why should gun restrictions be any different?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscariot View Post
This is entirely inaccurate. Switzerland does not have the lowest murder rate in the world. It is not even in the bottom ten.
And just to illustrate the difference between Switzerland and the United States ...

Quote:
Number of guns per capita by country (per 100 residents)

United States — 88.8
Switzerland — 45.7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_...ita_by_country
Quote:
Number of Privately Owned Firearms

United States — 270,000,000
Switzerland — 3,400,000

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/co...d_firearms/178
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:57 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by avro707 View Post
I'll tell you what you should do, borrow John Winston Howard, the former Australian Prime Minister and give him some sweeping powers to get the job done on gun ownership and control.

He is the only one I can think of who would be able to stand up in front of angry people, look them straight in the eye with determination and win them over. He has done it before and he can do it again.

Kids are dieing because of this lack of action, it's horrible. How many more mass shootings must happen? You expect casualties in a war zone, you don't expect casualties in a school, a place where kids are supposed to learn in a safe, happy environment.

That's my only contribution to this topic, I don't have anything further to say and given I work in the education sector, it hits home how terrible this is.


balamw
: Very honourable.
Bloomberg would be another excellent candidate to do it.
And speaking NYC - good read:http://www.newyorker.com/talk/commen...co_talk_gopnik

Otherwise, as a father of two kids in that age range - I am just horrified and heartbroken.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:59 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by WestonHarvey1 View Post
The only thing we can do in the here and now is allow teachers and staff to responsibly arm themselves so they'll at least have a chance.
When we have to arm our teachers, you kinda have to wonder if the problem isn't enough protection, but rather something wrong with society in general.

I'm not an anti-gun fanatic, nor am I a huge pro-gun proponent. I'm neutral on the subject when it comes right down to it, as I do realize that having access to a gun does make for some extra violent crimes of passion, and does enable some people to do horrible things they otherwise would think through if they didn't have one handy. I also believe things wouldn't be much different than they are now if all legal firearms were to all suddenly disappear out of everyone's houses tomorrow. I can't see one clear answer on the issue. Like everything, it's complicated.

But I'll tell you this, arming everyone with a gun would probably do more harm than good. Know why? Because your average person doesn't require a single bit of training to own a gun in the US. A bunch of armed dipwads feeling extra confident because they're packing heat, suddenly feeling the need to put them out and fire randomly into a crowd because they heard a rat-tat-tat-tat is likely to cause just as much, if not more damage than the guy going on the murder spree.

Grandma Palsy Hands pulling out her Steyr Aug and getting a shaky bead on that shifty eyed guy who just pulled a Desert Eagle out from underneath his trenchcoat isn't going to do all the people between them any good.

Imagine 20 Grandma Palsy Hands all panicking and doing the exact same thing. A murder spree that might've taken out 10 people before the guy gets brought down or offs himself suddenly becomes a mall based bloodbath because about 200 people were caught in the crossfire.

Arming everyone isn't the answer. Arming a bunch of untrained civs who can barely even handle a gun let alone use one to save the day with a single clean shot is even less of one.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:01 PM   #417
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Right To Own Handheld Device That Shoots Deadly Metal Pellets At High Speed Worth All

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“Sure, it’s sad that a few kids died, but it’s far better than the tyranny that would result if the government came and took away all our [mechanical contraptions that make a lot of little pointy chunks of metal go through the air fast]. Can you even imagine what kind of horrible world that would be?”
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:04 PM   #418
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Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
Who - untrained in martial arts as are most of us - can more easily kill another person, accidentally or willingly: a person armed with a gun or a person without a gun??

Do a controlled study, X people with gun and X without gun. Count the dead. Oh no wait, you don't need to, they are already counted today. Make that one person with two guns and twenty dead children in kindergarten age.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:06 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Iscariot View Post
This is entirely inaccurate. Switzerland does not have the lowest murder rate in the world. It is not even in the bottom ten. Several countries with lower murder rates than Switzerland have far stricter gun control. Japan enjoys a murder rate that is half that of Switzerland, where firearm ownership is almost completely forbidden. Switzerland's gun ownership is also almost half that of the United States.
Nevertheless, if the principle and the teachers had been armed, the gunman more than likely would have never showed up. Peace through mutually assured destruction.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:14 PM   #420
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Nevertheless, if the principle and the teachers had been armed, the gunman more than likely would have never showed up. Peace through mutually assured destruction.
Speculative and inaccurate. Statistical data indicates a strong correlation between the proliferation of firearms and their use in homicides, with a similar correlation between the proliferation of firearms and homicide.

Make a claim, provide evidence. Make an extraordinary claim, provide extraordinary evidence.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:17 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by Merkava_4 View Post
Nevertheless, if the principle and the teachers had been armed, the gunman more than likely would have never showed up. Peace through mutually assured destruction.
Peace through mutually assured destruction only works when both sides are of sound mind and fully realizes the consequences of their actions.

Last edited by Renzatic; Dec 14, 2012 at 11:19 PM. Reason: peach?
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:27 PM   #422
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Nevertheless, if the principle and the teachers had been armed, the gunman more than likely would have never showed up. Peace through mutually assured destruction.
Explain gang deaths please.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:52 PM   #423
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So how do you guys suppose we get rid of these tens of millions of guns? The vast majority are not documented in any way (and are not required to be). Do we go door to door asking people to hand them over? If so, are you expecting the criminals to just say "oh sure, here you go!"?
With some creativity, maybe there is some incentive society can come up with that gets people to turn in their guns. I know people don't want to see the debt run up more with a monetary incentive, but really, how much value do you put on the life of a child? It's just an idea. There are perhaps other solutions as well. But again, how much value do you put on the life of a child? If they are "priceless" as most parents claim, then people shouldn't have an issue putting some weight to that statement.

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Originally Posted by ucfgrad93 View Post
I would ask a similar question to those who want to ban guns.

Did banning alcohol work?

Did banning illegal drugs work?

Since the answer to both of those questions is no, how would banning guns get a different result?
So...your decision is to just let people run amok with guns and let the chips fall where they may? Live your life not knowing if you're going to get shot while shopping in the mall, watching a movie, or know if your kid will make it back home that day from school? Is that the kind of world you want? Actually, I should say country as there are parts of the world where this is not a problem.

It seems like we are getting to the point where gun violence has become so common in the U.S. that people are starting to get numb to it. This shouldn't be something that people start looking at as routine or a normal part of living in a free country. It is not. I don't want the country to slip into that way of thinking. I don't want it to be like the Middle East where people are always worrying about guns and bombs or if that day will be the day when one of their loved ones gets shot. We shouldn't have to live in fear all the time like that. The number of these incidences is getting ridiculous.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:31 AM   #424
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Now Fox news is blaming reality TV, Facebook, gaming for the incident...

http://kotaku.com/5968569/fox-news-l...nt-video-games

The mobs are chanting for a sacrifice

http://kotaku.com/5968683/mob-blames...rong/gallery/1
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:55 AM   #425
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I'm from a country where all firearms are illegal, zilch, zero, when someone goes ******* crazy, usually there's no casualty, even with a knife, they get subdue pretty fast even by civilians. I personally find the easy availability of guns in US ridiculous, but I guess that's the price you pay for the "freedom" of owning a gun.
Yesterday there was a crazy man in China who stabbed 22 children in an elementary school. Clearly he was not stopped soon enough, as you claim will happen... To you and the rest of the anti-gun people on this forum, what is your next move, ban all knives??? Have fun eating!
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