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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:11 PM   #126
MojoRisinSD
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Originally Posted by Mac32 View Post
I guess it depends on the games, but if the games you're going to play are FPS-dependent (like shooters and action games), definately go bootcamp. It's not that much hassle to use bootcamp, although with a fusion drive Windows in bootcamp will generally be much slower than OSX, except for the gaming experience which will be noticably better.
Again, I am a casual gamer, not trying to go MLG or anything. Also, bootcamp is a hassle because Windows is not $29 like OSX is! I have Portal 2, Left 4 Dead 2, and Witcher 2 waiting on Steam (killer deal!) for when I get my iMac. I would think that Apple would provide driver updates... either way, can't wait to see what it can do!
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 07:27 PM   #127
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HOOOOOOOOOLY CRAP ITS POWERFUL

Just got done installing Arkham City in bootcamp and its SOOO much smoother than on my old 27 from last year. I'll tweak the settings a bit but I'm getting 55-62 FPS at native rez in the built-in benchmark. I could have sworn I was averaging around 23-30 on my model from last year. Arkham city always chugged but I wanted to play it so badly so I dealt with sub-par performance on my old 27.

Seriously unless I am mistaken, that is close to a 2x increase in graphics performance from the 1gb 6970 to the 2gb 680mx. Yes, nvidia vs Ati architecture could be a factor, but this is at least 50-75% better. Gonna install 3D mark in steam to get some official numbers between the machines.

Also, the screen is just so much better. The glare has been removed and the colors are much more vibrant. I just can't believe how much I absolutely adore this machine.
Temperatures? I am able to max Arkham City on my 2 year old GTX 480 and get similar FPS without it burning up (around 60 Celsius). I really want to know if you could game constant for say 4 hours without overheating on the new iMacs. I'm just so worried about cooling, and I'd like to hear real temps if possible
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:23 PM   #128
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Sims 3? haha this will be no problem for the 680mx. even at max details.
I ordered the base model, will the GTX660m handle it ok?
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:41 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by MojoRisinSD View Post
Again, I am a casual gamer, not trying to go MLG or anything. Also, bootcamp is a hassle because Windows is not $29 like OSX is! I have Portal 2, Left 4 Dead 2, and Witcher 2 waiting on Steam (killer deal!) for when I get my iMac. I would think that Apple would provide driver updates... either way, can't wait to see what it can do!
On Amazon, it's actually pretty close, at least for now: http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Wind...ords=windows+8

Microsoft is pretty desperate to sell that baby.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:44 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Silvereel View Post
On Amazon, it's actually pretty close, at least for now: http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Wind...ords=windows+8

Microsoft is pretty desperate to sell that baby.
That's an upgrade though, you need to own Windows 7 already.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:49 PM   #131
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That's an upgrade though, you need to own Windows 7 already.
Besides, they should pay you for windows 8...
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:57 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by tarasis View Post
All sounds very tasty, need to get on and order mine. Will anyone be benchmarking Dragon Age: Origins, Oblivion, Skrym or Fallout 3? Not that I think any of those actually have proper benchmark tools :/
I am close to 100% confident that in all of those games with the 680mx you will be able to hit 60 fps or higher with every setting up as high as it goes (Ultra quality), max Anisotropic filtering, and 4 or 8x AA. I am installing Skyrim atm to get a feel just running around and tracking the average framerate, but if my experience with everything else so far is any indication, performance is essentially 2x or in some cases 3x higher than the 2011 iMac performance. I've played all of those (great selection btw ;D) on my old iMac and performance was great on all of them.

Here are a few more Benchmarks using the built-in benchmarking tools for each game. These are all serious pixel-pushers that can bring GPU's but the most hearty to a standstill. I'm very very impressed with the Crysis 2 scores, and WOW now I finally have a machine that can play GTA IV . In my opinion, anything over 30fps is just pure gravy, and something that can play on max settings while hardly ever dropping below 30 is amazing. Sure these scores were available with Mac Pro hardware, but for an all-in-one, you can't beat this performance.

For everyone asking about heat and fan noise, I have literally been benching this non-stop for the past 5 hours and the only time the fan kicked on was while playing Crysis 2, and even then it really wasn't that loud. Some fans can just have the most obnoxious whine, this one isn't as high pitched as some macs I've owned in the past. After an hour of Just Cause 2, the back is slightly warm to the touch, but nothing as hot as last gens iMac.

As reported by GPU-Z:
Ambient GPU temp - 39 Celsius
After 25 minutes of cycling the three Crysis 2 benchmarks GPU temp - 68 Celsius


Just Cause 2
(2560x1440, Maximum possible quality, 16x AF, High SSAO)

Dark Tower - 2xAA - 36.59 Avg fps
Dark Tower - 4xAA - 36.55 Avg fps
Desert Sunrise - 2xAA - 45.15 Avg fps
Desert Sunrise - 4xAA - 43.73 Avg fps
Concrete Jungle - 2xAA - 32.63 Avg fps
Concrete Jungle - 4xAA - 33.00 Avg fps


Metro 2033
(2560x1440, DX11, Maximum possible quality [Very High preset], 16x AF, Analytical Anti-aliasing)

Run 1 - Very High preset, PhysX Disabled, DoF Disabled - 30.59 Avg fps
Run 2 - Very High preset, PhysX Enabled, DoF Disabled - 27.93 Avg fps
Run 3 - Very High preset, PhysX Disabled, DoF Enabled - 18.19 Avg fps
Run 4 - Very High preset, PhysX Enabled, DoF Enabled - 17.23 Avg fps

Run 5 - High preset, PhysX Disabled, DoF Disabled - 45.86 Avg fps
Run 6 - High preset, PhysX Enabled, DoF Disabled - 41.80 Avg fps
Run 7 - High preset, PhysX Disabled, DoF Enabled - 23.97 Avg fps
Run 8 - High preset, PhysX Enabled, DoF Enabled - 22.39 Avg fps


Crysis 2 - Maximum Edition
(2560x1440, DX11, Maximum possible quality [Ultra preset], Edge AA, Hi-res Textures On)

Times Square - 2xAA - 31.5 Avg fps
Times Square - 4xAA - 31.4 Avg fps
Downtown - 2xAA - 31.1 Avg fps
Downtown - 4xAA - 31.0 Avg fps
Central Park - 2xAA - 30.1 Avg fps
Central Park - 4xAA - 30.0 Avg fps


Grand Theft Auto IV
(2560x1440, Maximum possible quality, All Distances at 100, 16x AF)

Benchmark Test w/ no AA - 63.63 Avg fps
Benchmark Test w/ Control Panel Forced 2x FXAA - 60.71 Avg fps
Benchmark Test w/ Control Panel Forced 4x FXAA - 60.31 Avg fps

Last edited by Fenn; Dec 15, 2012 at 01:08 AM.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 01:23 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Blkant View Post
Besides, they should pay you for windows 8...
Hahaha rofl yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
I am close to 100% confident that in all of those games with the 680mx you will be able to hit 60 fps or higher with every setting up as high as it goes (Ultra quality), max Anisotropic filtering, and 4 or 8x AA. I am installing Skyrim atm to get a feel just running around and tracking the average framerate, but if my experience with everything else so far is any indication, performance is essentially 2x or in some cases 3x higher than the 2011 iMac performance. I've played all of those (great selection btw ;D) on my old iMac and performance was great on all of them.

Here are a few more Benchmarks using the built-in benchmarking tools for each game. These are all serious pixel-pushers that can bring GPU's but the most hearty to a standstill. I'm very very impressed with the Crysis 2 scores, and WOW now I finally have a machine that can play GTA IV . In my opinion, anything over 30fps is just pure gravy, and something that can play on max settings while hardly ever dropping below 30 is amazing. Sure these scores were available with Mac Pro hardware, but for an all-in-one, you can't beat this performance.

For everyone asking about heat and fan noise, I have literally been benching this non-stop for the past 5 hours and the only time the fan kicked on was while playing Crysis 2, and even then it really wasn't that loud. Some fans can just have the most obnoxious whine, this one isn't as high pitched as some macs I've owned in the past. After an hour of Just Cause 2, the back is slightly warm to the touch, but nothing as hot as last gens iMac.

As reported by GPU-Z:
Ambient GPU temp - 39 Celsius
After 25 minutes of cycling the three Crysis 2 benchmarks GPU temp - 68 Celsius


Just Cause 2
(2560x1440, Maximum possible quality, 16x AF, High SSAO)

Dark Tower - 2xAA - 36.59 Avg fps
Dark Tower - 4xAA - 36.55 Avg fps
Desert Sunrise - 2xAA - 45.15 Avg fps
Desert Sunrise - 4xAA - 43.73 Avg fps
Concrete Jungle - 2xAA - 32.63 Avg fps
Concrete Jungle - 4xAA - 33.00 Avg fps


Metro 2033
(2560x1440, DX11, Maximum possible quality [Very High preset], 16x AF, Analytical Anti-aliasing)

Run 1 - Very High preset, PhysX Disabled, DoF Disabled - 30.59 Avg fps
Run 2 - Very High preset, PhysX Enabled, DoF Disabled - 27.93 Avg fps
Run 3 - Very High preset, PhysX Disabled, DoF Enabled - 18.19 Avg fps
Run 4 - Very High preset, PhysX Enabled, DoF Enabled - 17.23 Avg fps

Run 5 - High preset, PhysX Disabled, DoF Disabled - 45.86 Avg fps
Run 6 - High preset, PhysX Enabled, DoF Disabled - 41.80 Avg fps
Run 7 - High preset, PhysX Disabled, DoF Enabled - 23.97 Avg fps
Run 8 - High preset, PhysX Enabled, DoF Enabled - 22.39 Avg fps


Crysis 2 - Maximum Edition
(2560x1440, DX11, Maximum possible quality [Ultra preset], Edge AA, Hi-res Textures On)

Times Square - 2xAA - 31.5 Avg fps
Times Square - 4xAA - 31.4 Avg fps
Downtown - 2xAA - 31.1 Avg fps
Downtown - 4xAA - 31.0 Avg fps
Central Park - 2xAA - 30.1 Avg fps
Central Park - 4xAA - 30.0 Avg fps


Grand Theft Auto IV
(2560x1440, Maximum possible quality, All Distances at 100, 16x AF)

Benchmark Test w/ no AA - 63.63 Avg fps
Benchmark Test w/ Control Panel Forced 2x FXAA - 60.71 Avg fps
Benchmark Test w/ Control Panel Forced 4x FXAA - 60.31 Avg fps
Thanks for doing these! I don't suppose you could run FRAPS in The Witcher 2, if you own it, and see what you get on Ultra w/ and w/o ubersampling.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 04:27 AM   #134
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Thanks Fenn! Btw. strange that 2x vs 4x AA in Crysis 2 shows no difference in framerate, esp. at such a high resolution...
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 04:42 AM   #135
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Has anyone tried to run a game in Parallels ? What is the difference in Parallels and Bootcamp?


Thanks
Parallels is a virtual machine. Do not try to run games in a virtual machine. It does not use the graphics card natively to its full potential and uses the vm's own drivers. Effectively you are using a virtual graphics card in vm.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 05:04 AM   #136
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Had to grab a bit of sleep while steam downloaded a bunch of stuff on both systems. For the time being here are some geekbench benchmarks. 3D Mark is coming as soon as I can.

2011 iMac, 64-bit Geekbench 12814
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/1398890


2012 iMac, 64-bit Geekbench 14155
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/1398889
Well at least iMac is a real desktop with a real performance result exceeding the highest end rMBP. Since all the iToys and Macbook all over the universe, it's good to know that Apple at least make one powerful desktop.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 05:04 AM   #137
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Guys i need your help. I am having trouble to decide what Windows i should use in Bootcamp.

I own a 32bit Win7 and a 64bit Win8. Given the fact that Win8 is not officially supported in Bootcamp, what system should i use for maximum performance gaming with my iMac?

Side note: I am currently running an old Win8 Dev Preview on my MacBook Pro via Bootcamp that runs perfectly fine with all drivers working.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 05:25 AM   #138
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Hahaha rofl yes.

Thanks for doing these! I don't suppose you could run FRAPS in The Witcher 2, if you own it, and see what you get on Ultra w/ and w/o ubersampling.
Now that would be an interesting test... FWIW it was $11 on GoG the other day when I bought it, might still be.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 05:30 AM   #139
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Guys i need your help. I am having trouble to decide what Windows i should use in Bootcamp.

I own a 32bit Win7 and a 64bit Win8. Given the fact that Win8 is not officially supported in Bootcamp, what system should i use for maximum performance gaming with my iMac?

Side note: I am currently running an old Win8 Dev Preview on my MacBook Pro via Bootcamp that runs perfectly fine with all drivers working.
I'd not use the 32-bit version. Give the 64-bit Windows 8 version a try, but make sure you back up your files (on Windows & OS X) just in case anything goes wrong.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 05:33 AM   #140
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Thanks Fenn! Btw. strange that 2x vs 4x AA in Crysis 2 shows no difference in framerate, esp. at such a high resolution...
Yes for every game I have benched I am surprised that adding AA has such a little drop in fps. In fact when I was benching Just Cause 2 I had to take some screen shots to compare after the fact just to make sure it actually (was) apply the AA and indeed you could tell. You know I lived my life in the realm of only being able to apply 2x AA because the jump to 4x was too much of a hit on older machines but oh, how that 4x was so pretty! I could probably even call out what was what in a blind test

Ironically I have been consistently shocked that options that are known for just hosing the fps on other macs have so little impact here with the 680mx. Games that use things like SSAO, ambient occlusion, distance motion blur, edge based AA, deferred shading and even the addition of PhysX really don't have nearly the performance hit that they have brought in the past. Several games I've gone up to 16x AA and you can see the visual fidelity but there is essentially zero performance hit. (I guess, welcome to the world of nice graphics cards Fenn, derp

About the only thing that destroys the world is Ubersampling in The Witcher 2. I loaded several saves throughout my play in the first chapter tonight and using Fraps with everything on the highest setting minus Uber, I get a consistent 30-35 fps and peaks of up to 40. This is totally respectable as I was used to 10-15 with lower settings on my old iMac. Adding Uber in drops the frame rate to 14-17 on the 680mx, which is hilarious seeing as you can actually still beat out the old 2011 imac with Uber and everything on max.

I'll look at Borderlands, Skyrim, Rage, Alice 2, the Darkness, Assassins Creed, S.t.a.l.k.e.r., Alan Wake, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and dead island tomorrow. (Dat Fios!)
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 05:35 AM   #141
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Can someone please post BattleField3 FPS?
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 05:48 AM   #142
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About the only thing that destroys the world is Ubersampling in The Witcher 2. I loaded several saves throughout my play in the first chapter tonight and using Fraps with everything on the highest setting minus Uber, I get a consistent 30-35 fps and peaks of up to 40. This is totally respectable as I was used to 10-15 with lower settings on my old iMac. Adding Uber in drops the frame rate to 14-17 on the 680mx, which is hilarious seeing as you can actually still beat out the old 2011 imac with Uber and everything on max.
Were you running it at 2560x1440?
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:00 AM   #143
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I am close to 100% confident that in all of those games with the 680mx you will be able to hit 60 fps or higher with every setting up as high as it goes (Ultra quality), max Anisotropic filtering, and 4 or 8x AA. I am installing Skyrim atm to get a feel just running around and tracking the average framerate, but if my experience with everything else so far is any indication, performance is essentially 2x or in some cases 3x higher than the 2011 iMac performance. I've played all of those (great selection btw ;D) on my old iMac and performance was great on all of them.
Thanks Fenn, the results are incredible compared to my 13" MBP Mid 2009 with 9400M. DA:O tends to run between 8-14fps at 1280x800 with detail turned down, The Witcher is unplayable (at times it runs at 1, yes 1, fps), I haven't tried Skrym yet and Fallout 3 is manageable at 15-25 fps.

With orders not shipping now till January maybe I should wait for the refresh in X months time but want the machine NOW so I can play some of what I have been itching to play for ages at a decent quality and frame rate.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:10 AM   #144
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That's an upgrade though, you need to own Windows 7 already.
That's mostly a factor for those that are custom building machines. If they purchased an oem constructed machine, it would have included Windows 7. I don't think there are many XP/Vista machines that will comfortably run Windows 8 unless they were corporate purchases where XP was specifically requested. I don't know if that still happens. I understood it during Vista. After Windows 7 stabilized, it seemed much less necessary. Even Vista received some fixes later in its life. It was just past the point where people would upgrade to it. With the number of Windows 7 installations in the wild, you may have several more years of software released with Windows 7 compliance. XP releases have received stripped down software lately, due to the age of that OS and the majority of the hardware that is run on it.

I also find the premise of this thread to be somewhat silly. The OP mentions how this is the fastest "mobile" graphics chip on the market, yet it's implemented in a stationary computer. If you're comparing to desktops, there are better options unless you're determined to retain the all in one form factor.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:18 AM   #145
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Were you running it at 2560x1440?
Yes, 2560x1440 with every possibly option turned on or turned up to the highest setting (with the exception of Uber.)

Honestly this is not just about how great the gpu is. This iMac is what I would consider all around to be the single best computer you can buy on the market. The screen alone puts every other LCD I've seen to shame. You can't find a display with this tremendous amount of richness and the smallest amount of glare I have seen on a glass display. Opinions about the lack of optical drive aside, I haven't had a piece of tech on my desk that elicits such a positive emotional reaction from 360 degrees of visibility in my life no matter who approaches it at work. When you walk up to it this thing just screams "I'm sexy, and I'm powerful and you know you want to come work on me ". So the fact it also comes with a kick ass GPU couldn't make people any happier.

And sorry Hacke, no Battlefield 3 on steam :/

Last edited by Fenn; Dec 15, 2012 at 06:37 AM.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:24 AM   #146
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That's mostly a factor for those that are custom building machines. If they purchased an oem constructed machine, it would have included Windows 7. I don't think there are many XP/Vista machines that will comfortably run Windows 8 unless they were corporate purchases where XP was specifically requested. I don't know if that still happens. I understood it during Vista. After Windows 7 stabilized, it seemed much less necessary. Even Vista received some fixes later in its life. It was just past the point where people would upgrade to it. With the number of Windows 7 installations in the wild, you may have several more years of software released with Windows 7 compliance. XP releases have received stripped down software lately, due to the age of that OS and the majority of the hardware that is run on it.
Yeah, but for someone wanting to put Windows on their Mac they would need the full version.
Quote:
I also find the premise of this thread to be somewhat silly. The OP mentions how this is the fastest "mobile" graphics chip on the market, yet it's implemented in a stationary computer. If you're comparing to desktops, there are better options unless you're determined to retain the all in one form factor.
Better is subjective and I'd say many buying the iMac are doing so because they want OS X and/or they like the form factor.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:28 AM   #147
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I'd not use the 32-bit version. Give the 64-bit Windows 8 version a try, but make sure you back up your files (on Windows & OS X) just in case anything goes wrong.
thats what i thought too...A Backup should be no problem because installing Windows will be the first thing i will do when my iMac arrives.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:28 AM   #148
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Yes for every game I have benched I am surprised that adding AA has such a little drop in fps. In fact when I was benching Just Cause 2 I had to take some screen shots to compare after the fact just to make sure it actually (was) apply the AA and indeed you could tell. You know I lived my life in the realm of only being able to apply 2x AA because the jump to 4x was too much of a hit on older machines but oh, how that 4x was so pretty! I could probably even call out what was what in a blind test

Ironically I have been consistently shocked that options that are known for just hosing the fps on other macs have so little impact here with the 680mx. Games that use things like SSAO, ambient occlusion, distance motion blur, edge based AA, deferred shading and even the addition of PhysX really don't have nearly the performance hit that they have brought in the past. Several games I've gone up to 16x AA and you can see the visual fidelity but there is essentially zero performance hit. (I guess, welcome to the world of nice graphics cards Fenn, derp ...
Yeah, can't wait to get my i7/680mx iMac and try out some games. It could also mean that the graphics drivers for 680MX are yet unoptimised, so there could be some additional gains in fps with some more mature, offical drivers from Nvidia. One can hope at least...
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:53 AM   #149
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Yeah, but for someone wanting to put Windows on their Mac they would need the full version.
If they need Windows for something like gaming, which is a common bootcamp scenario on here, they may already have a Windows 7 retail license. That would be the expensive one. An oem license for that machine would be significantly less, and they do pop up in legitimate retail channels. $100 on an oem license isn't that bad unless you just wanted wanted it for one or two applications, in which case I'd see if they'll run under Wine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MythicFrost View Post
Better is subjective and I'd say many buying the iMac are doing so because they want OS X and/or they like the form factor.
It could be a combination. It's what is offered by Apple in terms of desktops. The mac pro isn't really aimed at that market. My point was they referred to it as the best "mobile" graphics chip, yet it's not really in the context of mobile hardware. Traditional desktop cards are too hot and bulky for such a machine, but it should be referenced against other desktop hardware in terms of capability. In that sense it's not the fastest. It's quite fast, just not the fastest.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:33 AM   #150
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As reported by GPU-Z:
Ambient GPU temp - 39 Celsius
After 25 minutes of cycling the three Crysis 2 benchmarks GPU temp - 68 Celsius
With the thermal headroom this baby has, it should overclock quite nicely in 2 or 3 years when it is no longer handling the newest games with ease at stock.
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