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Old Dec 13, 2012, 08:34 AM   #201
ppdix
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[QUOTE=timmothy90;16467275]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppdix View Post
About 128 simultaneous ones.
I created a thumbnail sized wall of porn to watch simultaneously.
I got the power. [COLOR="#808080"]
How can your brain process each individual video o.o
It's a joke.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post

You surely don't know that most of music on this planet is still distributed in CD and most of movies in DVD?
Yes, I know. That is now.
New iMacs already lack DVD drives.
Mac book airs sell like hot cakes too.
CDs have been around for 25 years and DVD for over 10.
Time to switch to better technology
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 10:28 AM   #202
nStyle
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Originally Posted by laserbeam273 View Post
Sorry, but how is that unethical?
Responding to consumer complaints about lack of native manufacturing with most least impactful move just seems like a low blow.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:43 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by nStyle View Post
Responding to consumer complaints about lack of native manufacturing with most least impactful move just seems like a low blow.
I doubt it has anything to do with consumer complaints. I believe Apple and FoxConn (if it is FoxConn who is the 3rd party assembler in this case) are merely continuing to diversify where they make stuff. Having all your assembler eggs in one basket is a risky corporate move.

If (and it's a big 'if') it is a version of the Mac Pro then I would suggest that Apple (and their contractor) are starting with a product that doens't mean much to the bottom line.... so if there are issues it won't have a major impact on Apple's financial health.

Apple (and others) have consistently said that it is not primarily the cost of labour that has prevented a diversification of assembly plants, but the supply chains that already exist in China. If you are going to start assembling a new location, you have to give your suppliers a chance to establish their supply chains as well. A small volume product is perfect for this.

To suggest Apple is doing this because of consumer pressure though... that is, imho, not at all the case.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 02:58 PM   #204
nStyle
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Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
To suggest Apple is doing this because of consumer pressure though... that is, imho, not at all the case.
I read it somewhere... probably can't find it.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 03:27 PM   #205
toke lahti
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Originally Posted by faroZ06 View Post
That's not a good justification for anything, and besides, Apple has always been concerned about the thickness of their desktop computers. If you really think this is going to be that first time when Apple decides to put 2.5" hard drives in their pro desktop but 3.5" in their consumer desktop, then we can just wait and see.
You surely know that servers have used 2.5" for years and fastest hdd's are 2.5"?

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[QUOTE=ppdix;16483080]
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmothy90 View Post
Yes, I know. That is now.
New iMacs already lack DVD drives.
Mac book airs sell like hot cakes too.
CDs have been around for 25 years and DVD for over 10.
Time to switch to better technology
People buy computers now for using them now, not in the future.
Good design would be fully usable with today's conventions and work also or would be expandable for future use.
But contrary to what you said, optical discs are not obsolete and won't be dead in 2 years.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 03:38 PM   #206
thekeyring
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppdix View Post
I laugh when I see the Mac Book Pro's benchmarks which are like 25% of the power I get on my 2010 Mac Pro.
I got 2 LED Cinema Displays, 1TB Mercury Accelsior PCI-e SSD Drive that gives me 700MB/second Read speeds, plus 6 additional Internal HD's, PCI-e USB 3.0, FireWire 800 and 32GB of RAM. Oh yeah, I removed the CD drive and hooked up a 480GB SSD instead.
Try to upgrade an iMac or Mac Book...
Mac Pro is the only REAL Professional Mac. The rest are toys...
:O I WANT.

Sorry, just all those specs sound cool. My mid-2012 13" MBP often struggles with Motion 5 & Final Cut Pro. I need to upgrade to a faster machine.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:00 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nStyle View Post
I read it somewhere... probably can't find it.
I read lots of things too...
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:33 PM   #208
milo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
You surely know that servers have used 2.5" for years and fastest hdd's are 2.5"?
Really? I'd like to see a source on that. Or by 2.5 are you talking about SSD?

And even if that is true, 2.5 drives are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to capacity and price. I could see a new MP having some bays that are intended for SSD, but it would be a shocker if a MP had no 3.5 bays.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:37 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
You surely know that servers have used 2.5" for years and fastest hdd's are 2.5"?
The fastest HDDs are not 2.5"...
Servers are not Mac Pros, and not all servers use 2.5".
If 2.5" was what the pros used for the past few years, the Mac Pro would have them.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppdix View Post
I laugh when I see the Mac Book Pro's benchmarks which are like 25% of the power I get on my 2010 Mac Pro.
I got 2 LED Cinema Displays, 1TB Mercury Accelsior PCI-e SSD Drive that gives me 700MB/second Read speeds, plus 6 additional Internal HD's, PCI-e USB 3.0, FireWire 800 and 32GB of RAM. Oh yeah, I removed the CD drive and hooked up a 480GB SSD instead.
Try to upgrade an iMac or Mac Book...
Mac Pro is the only REAL Professional Mac. The rest are toys...
Are you saying that all professionals who use computers need to be able to upgrade their computers? That's not the case.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 06:01 PM   #210
nStyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
I read lots of things too...
Well you made me find it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLOOMBERG NEWS
It's no longer a pipe dream to bring some manufacturing back to the U.S. thanks in part to improvements in automation gear, said Pam Gordon, founder of electronics manufacturing consulting firm Technology Forecasters Inc. At the same time, the costs of making goods overseas are rising due to higher transportation expenses and increased consumer concern about worker safety and environmental responsibility, she said.
source
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:48 AM   #211
milo
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That doesn't say that they're doing it because of consumer pressure.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:39 AM   #212
Umbongo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
You surely know that servers have used 2.5" for years and fastest hdd's are 2.5"?
Servers use 2.5" mechanical drives because they are more efficient. Two 2.5" drives in RAID use the same power as one, but can offer the same capacity and better performance. A single 2.5" drive is not as fast as a 3.5".
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:26 AM   #213
milo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbongo View Post
Two 2.5" drives in RAID use the same power as one
As one 3.5? Maybe, do you have a source on that?

Quote:
but can offer the same capacity and better performance.
To match the capacity of a single 3TB drive, you'd need two 1.5TB 2.5" drives, do those exist? And you might get better performance in some cases, but in a server why not just raid two 3.5 drives and get even better performance? 2.5 only seems to make sense when physical space is tight. Definitely in terms of cost, the 2.5s are at a major disadvantage.

But anyway, the Mac Pro isn't a server (or at least probably isn't used that way by most users). For MP it's hard to imagine wanting to use 2.5 other than for SSD (although the option to put two 2.5 drives in a single 3.5 bay would be a nice option).
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:54 AM   #214
snberk103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nStyle View Post
Well you made me find it:

source
Here's something I read, too... First from the article you quoted...

Quote:
said Dan Luria, a labor economist at Michigan Manufacturing Technology Center in Plymouth, Mich., who studies factory operations. Apple will probably rely on tax breaks and other incentives for the facility, he said.
Second, from the NY Times...

Quote:
Dec 1, 2012
A Times investigation has examined and tallied thousands of local incentives granted nationwide and has found that states, counties and cities are giving up more than $80 billion each year to companies. The beneficiaries come from virtually every corner of the corporate world ...

The cost of the awards is certainly far higher. A full accounting, The Times discovered, is not possible because the incentives are granted by thousands of government agencies and officials, and many do not know the value of all their awards. Nor do they know if the money was worth it because they rarely track how many jobs are created. Even where officials do track incentives, they acknowledge that it is impossible to know whether the jobs would have been created without the aid.
Link to NY Times

So, are those jobs there- and it is only speculation that it will be about 200 - because the US is now becoming a cost competitive location? Or because there will be government subsidies? In effect, Apple (and its contractors) are not paying the full freight of on the expenses? In essence, a bribe by the government to a corporation.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 12:13 PM   #215
Umbongo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milo View Post
As one 3.5? Maybe, do you have a source on that?
All manufacturers list their numbers. Seagate's, for 15K SAS drives, are:
3.5" 600GB 16.31W
3.5" 300GB 12.92W
2.5" 300GB 7.92W

2.5" drives also have a much lower power usage when idle, 3.5" don't use much less at all.

Quote:
To match the capacity of a single 3TB drive, you'd need two 1.5TB 2.5" drives, do those exist? And you might get better performance in some cases, but in a server why not just raid two 3.5 drives and get even better performance? 2.5 only seems to make sense when physical space is tight. Definitely in terms of cost, the 2.5s are at a major disadvantage.
Not talking about storage. That's a different issue, but 3TB and 4TB drives offer superior power usage at the moment, although many do not buy drives in such capacities for various reasons.

Never underestimate the need for physical space, power, and thus cooling, efficiency when it comes to servers.


Here is an article talking about it when enterprise vendors, such as Seagate, started pushing harder towards 2.5":
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...dd,2612-9.html

Last edited by Umbongo; Dec 14, 2012 at 12:18 PM.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 12:22 PM   #216
milo
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Originally Posted by Umbongo View Post
Not talking about storage.
You are when you say "can offer the same capacity..."
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:02 PM   #217
toke lahti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milo View Post
But anyway, the Mac Pro isn't a server (or at least probably isn't used that way by most users). For MP it's hard to imagine wanting to use 2.5 other than for SSD (although the option to put two 2.5 drives in a single 3.5 bay would be a nice option).
Velociraptor and fast SAS drives that still have 3.5" enclosure have 2.5" platters.
2.5" is getting cheaper, getting more capacity and saving more energy all the time.
I'd guess that in few years gigabyte is going to cost less in 2.5", since most of computers (all laptops and servers, some desktops already) use them and mass producing is all about economy of scale.
So if Apple redesigns MP every 10 years, they might be ahead of its time to ditching 3.5" just like they are now ahead of right timing for ditching optical disks in consumer's point of view.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:21 PM   #218
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You are when you say "can offer the same capacity..."
Capacity of two performance 2.5" drives in relation to the capacity of a single 3.5" performance drive.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:40 PM   #219
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If Apple designs with the intention that they won't update again for another ten years, drive size will be the least of our problems.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 03:28 AM   #220
toke lahti
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If Apple designs with the intention that they won't update again for another ten years, drive size will be the least of our problems.
Has the enclosure been a problem for MP so far?
And when they designed it to be the G5 PowerMac?
I could easily list a dozen more serious problems with MP and a couple more with macs and even still more with Apple.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:33 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
Has the enclosure been a problem for MP so far?
And when they designed it to be the G5 PowerMac?
I could easily list a dozen more serious problems with MP and a couple more with macs and even still more with Apple.
Heat has been an issue with gpus. Inconsistent airflow in drive bays was a lesser issue. They still significantly reworked the internal design at least twice with the Powermac G5, then with the Mac Pro 1,1 and 4,1. The shape of the shell has remained consistent, and they've worked within that form factor. It could be argued that they could do better with a more thorough reworking as other oems have done.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:15 PM   #222
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Responding to consumer complaints about lack of native manufacturing with most least impactful move just seems like a low blow.
Not responding to consumer complaints isn't unethical.. you may want to read up on ethics a bit. If you label this unethical, then I don't know what you'd call child soldiers!
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 01:36 PM   #223
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Has the enclosure been a problem for MP so far?
It certainly has lagged in terms of what users need and are using.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 11:57 AM   #224
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TOWERS? is the future still to far?

Question:

Are we almost ready to think about how to do all of our processing in the cloud?

EVEN the big 'pro' stuff... (rendering 3d comps over 1080P video... instantly)

Don't get me wrong, I love my pro tower, and will buy the new one in a second - BUT I am feeling like really - maybe - possibly - a tower is an old way of doing things (if not now, then within coming years), and the technology we need to process and store all data in the cloud is available.

the computer we want is just a nice big touch screen with additional mouse and keyboard hardware - hooked into the cloud. (icloud - sure)


What do you ppl think?
Wanna make it happen?
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 12:16 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by davezak View Post
Question:

Are we almost ready to think about how to do all of our processing in the cloud?

EVEN the big 'pro' stuff... (rendering 3d comps over 1080P video... instantly)

Don't get me wrong, I love my pro tower, and will buy the new one in a second - BUT I am feeling like really - maybe - possibly - a tower is an old way of doing things (if not now, then within coming years), and the technology we need to process and store all data in the cloud is available.

the computer we want is just a nice big touch screen with additional mouse and keyboard hardware - hooked into the cloud. (icloud - sure)


What do you ppl think?
Wanna make it happen?
There is NO WAY I will store all of my data in the cloud. Ever.
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