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Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:23 AM   #26
Spetsnazos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominus Mortem View Post
You should be careful with blanket statements. Due to a vocal minority saying they have it you cannot then extrapolate that they all have it. You'd need a comprehensive study to be able to make that claim without seeming like you're jumping to conclusions and just spreading gossip.

I've seen posts from several people who say their LG screens don't have it and they've had them for over 3 months now. I had an LG screen that did have it and it was BAD and the next one didn't have it at all and still doesn't. Will it show up later? Maybe.

Only one thing can be said for dead certain, at least some LG screens do have it.

A lot of different things could be going on here. LG may have had a bad batch that is now exhausted. LG could have several assembly lines and only one is doing something that is causing this problem on the screens it outputs. There may have been a bad batch of chemicals going through the production line for awhile. Or maybe you're right and they all develop it eventually, some sooner, some later. There's just no way anyone knows the truth except perhaps a handful of engineers at LG who aren't talking for fear of losing their jobs if they uttered a word about it.
riveting tale chap but.....NO.

If I go into the Apple store and can produce IR on every single LG rMBP and not a single Samsung rMBP that is enough evidence.

The most genius things are the least complex. People like you are constantly in denial when their hypothesis is false.

No one cares about doing a full blown study to waste millions of dollars that a simple layman could figure out in 5 minutes.

LG = fail

Samsung = success.

Have fun with IR.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:34 AM   #27
duckrabbit
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Originally Posted by leman View Post
If you can't notice it in your daily work than the display is perfectly fine.
This.

Also, it's worth noting that Apple no longer considers it a problem (see this). In July, when I returned my launch day machine with IR (and an LG screen), that article only mentioned the iMac. Since otherwise-perfect machines exhibiting IR are apparently in spec, anyone hesitant to keep a machine with an LG screen ought to return it within the 14 day no questions asked window. There's no guarantee they'll accept it later if IR is your only issue.

Edit: FWIW, the launch day machine with IR that I returned had an LG display, and my replacement has a Samsung display and no IR but has less uniform backlighting and color than the LG display did. I chose to keep it since I'd rather have uneven color than IR.

Edit 2: Also, I'm pretty sure that anyone saying image retention develops over time is wrong. You might not notice it for a while, but it's there from the start.

Last edited by duckrabbit; Dec 15, 2012 at 12:40 AM.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 01:50 AM   #28
Dominus Mortem
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Originally Posted by Spetsnazos View Post
riveting tale chap but.....NO.

If I go into the Apple store and can produce IR on every single LG rMBP and not a single Samsung rMBP that is enough evidence.

The most genius things are the least complex. People like you are constantly in denial when their hypothesis is false.

No one cares about doing a full blown study to waste millions of dollars that a simple layman could figure out in 5 minutes.

LG = fail

Samsung = success.

Have fun with IR.
I see your type all the time. You develop an opinion and stick with it no matter what you find out that might be contrary. This is not a good characteristic to have, you build up large mental databases of incorrect information and soon everyone around you stops listening to what you say.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 02:13 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominus Mortem View Post
I see your type all the time. You develop an opinion and stick with it no matter what you find out that might be contrary. This is not a good characteristic to have, you build up large mental databases of incorrect information and soon everyone around you stops listening to what you say.
I totally agree with you Dominus. His quote below clearly proves what you're saying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spetsnazos View Post
If I go into the Apple store and can produce IR on every single LG rMBP and not a single Samsung rMBP that is enough evidence.

The most genius things are the least complex. People like you are constantly in denial when their hypothesis is false.
Going into a single store? Enough evidence? Have you ever taken any basic statistic course?
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 02:23 AM   #30
akdj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spetsnazos View Post
riveting tale chap but.....NO.

If I go into the Apple store and can produce IR on every single LG rMBP and not a single Samsung rMBP that is enough evidence.

The most genius things are the least complex. People like you are constantly in denial when their hypothesis is false.

No one cares about doing a full blown study to waste millions of dollars that a simple layman could figure out in 5 minutes.

LG = fail

Samsung = success.

Have fun with IR.
This is one of the bigger loads of crap I've read on this forum in a while...and that's saying something!
LoL
To the OP...No, not all have IR, nor will they 'develop' it. Lots of BS sometimes to sift through on this board...but don't worry. LG is a big, excellent panel manufacturer. I've got a rMBP, LG...just over 4 months old and I use it 8-10 hours a day, everyday. No. IR.
My wife has had hers for just over two months, LG display, No IR!

We work with video and still photo post production and these are easily the best monitors I've ever had the pleasure of working with---incredible performance! You'll be happy BUT, if you end up with a bad 'anything' in your new Mac, Apple will replace it, no questions asked.

FWIW...I actually read a similar post as the one I quoted a couple weeks back. I went to the local Apple store, and of the 6-15" rMBPs out for demo, five were LG, one was Samsung. No IR on any of them...even though they're 'on' all day, every day typically on a static screen.

LG manufactures glass for a LOT of companies. They're great. Not to say there aren't duds out there. As an owner of two and a 'see-er' of another half dozen this is definitely NOT a ubiquitous issue with LG displays on the rMBP

The last thing I wanted to mention...a friend of mine that bought his launch week had a different display issue all together. Nothing to do with IR or dead pixels. It was a Samsung display...replaced last week at the Apple store. The replacement is LG. he couldn't be happier! Someone else mentioned Apple is replacing all faulty screens with Samsung. Again, just. Not. True!

J
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 04:13 AM   #31
kittiyut
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Forgot to mention that mine is LG.

Yes, I have IR, but only if I force it to happen. Even then, it is very faint and disappears very quickly.

Will I go out and replace mine? Nope. Why?
- Too lazy to, besides, the IR is very faint and only occurs if I "force" it.
- Everything else is "satisfactory" i.e. no dead pixels, no light bleed, no yellow tint, white is even throughout the panel. No lag, no creaks, no cosmetic blemishes.
- I have apple care, if things get worse down the road, I'll have the option to reconsider. After 3 years? I'll get a new one.
- Can't really complain, I only paid 75% for the 2.7/16/512 (got the coveted 25% employee discount!

And to the guy who says that IR starts from day one, I'm not going to say you are right or wrong - just wanted to let you know that I did the checker thing from DAY 1, and everyday for 1 month, didn't see anything so I stopped. Well, sure enough a month or so later it developed on mine. Will it get worse? Hope not!

Last edited by kittiyut; Dec 15, 2012 at 04:18 AM.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:34 AM   #32
Magpie-23
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I think it is time to draw a line under this IR "issue". I have an LG screen. If I do the checker board test on a grey background I get IR for a few minutes.
What does this prove?
Unless I play on line chess extensively I cant see why this test simulates your normal usage patterns.
My take on all of this?
Some LG screens will have IR WORSE than others. The people with severe IR think every one else with an LG screen is in denial. To those people with severe IR, get it swapped as it is under warranty. To those LG owners who have to force the issue, who have to do checkerboard tests etc, stop looking for problems...enjoy your machine, it is amazing. If it gets worse and it stops you doing your work, get it swapped...chances are you'll get another LG, then what? Swap that after 3 months?
The fact is non severe IR (where you have to go looking for it) appears to be a common feature of LG screens. I'd advise ignoring it unless it it so bad you notice it persistently and it interrupts you using the machine as intended.
And to those who post on this issue, and have never owned an LG, or seen the problem for themselves, picture this....if I leave a bright white safari browser static on screen for a while and then swipe to a light background (like the Mt Fuji) one, I will see a very very faint outline of the browser for a minute...so faint I have to put my face up against the screen and scrutinise every inch of the display. I guarantee if I showed it to someone who had never heard of this issue they wouldn't see it, where as I am looking for it.

I reckon at some point, someone with one of the new iMacs will say if you have a red background open for 45 mins, you get a pink tinge on the screen for 5 seconds...and all hell breaks out...Red-gate.

Not all LGs will have the same level or IR as others. If it is really bad do something about it. If it isn't, stop looking for it.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:50 AM   #33
Jedi
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Thank you all for the information you have provided

Really , I mean that.

It is truly interesting , the mind of a Mac user , we truly are different !

But in a very good way

Later , really !

Gary 
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 09:11 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie-23 View Post
I think it is time to draw a line under this IR "issue". I have an LG screen. If I do the checker board test on a grey background I get IR for a few minutes.
What does this prove?
Unless I play on line chess extensively I cant see why this test simulates your normal usage patterns.
My take on all of this?
I like that quote so much I'm tempted to steal it for a sig. The idea is just extremely funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie-23 View Post
Some LG screens will have IR WORSE than others. The people with severe IR think every one else with an LG screen is in denial. To those people with severe IR, get it swapped as it is under warranty. To those LG owners who have to force the issue, who have to do checkerboard tests etc, stop looking for problems...enjoy your machine, it is amazing. If it gets worse and it stops you doing your work, get it swapped...chances are you'll get another LG, then what? Swap that after 3 months?
I understand the concern to a degree, especially how this showed up much more with aging panels on earlier models. It was pretty common with the imacs along with purple splotchiness starting around the edges. It was typical to see things like application names and text from tab items. The common thing would be finder or the name of a web browser or favorite application. The only way to try to alleviate this was through the use of a white screen for quite a few hours. If people are really worried about the display lottery, the solution is not to purchase the machine. Wait for design corrections in a future generation and purchase one then.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 09:34 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckrabbit View Post
Edit 2: Also, I'm pretty sure that anyone saying image retention develops over time is wrong. You might not notice it for a while, but it's there from the start.
There is a lot of evidence that points to the fact that IR gets worse over time, as ionic impurities (from the glass/electrodes (my guess)) diffuse into the liquid crystals. The ions cause the IR phenomena. The white paper by Barco is very good and readable:

http://www.barco.com/projection_syst...whitepaper.pdf


Both LG Philips and NEC list that this is not a warranty issue:
http://www.nec-display-solutions.com...delinesLCD.pdf


"Ion Transport and Boundary Image Retention in Nematic Liquid Crystal Displays" - Goran Stojmenovik doctoral thesis


Personally, having used a Samsung 191T (19" MVA or PVA panel) from 2002-2007 - no image retention noticable for the first few years. Then after about 3 years of use, I started to notice it. At the end of my use period, after only a few minutes the browser tabs would be visible. The concept of IR on LCDs was almost unheard of on the internet at the time, but I say empirically that the phenomenon is real and can get worse over time.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie-23 View Post
I think it is time to draw a line under this IR "issue". I have an LG screen. If I do the checker board test on a grey background I get IR for a few minutes.
What does this prove?
Unless I play on line chess extensively I cant see why this test simulates your normal usage patterns.
My take on all of this?
Some LG screens will have IR WORSE than others. The people with severe IR think every one else with an LG screen is in denial. To those people with severe IR, get it swapped as it is under warranty. To those LG owners who have to force the issue, who have to do checkerboard tests etc, stop looking for problems...enjoy your machine, it is amazing. If it gets worse and it stops you doing your work, get it swapped...chances are you'll get another LG, then what? Swap that after 3 months?
The fact is non severe IR (where you have to go looking for it) appears to be a common feature of LG screens. I'd advise ignoring it unless it it so bad you notice it persistently and it interrupts you using the machine as intended.
And to those who post on this issue, and have never owned an LG, or seen the problem for themselves, picture this....if I leave a bright white safari browser static on screen for a while and then swipe to a light background (like the Mt Fuji) one, I will see a very very faint outline of the browser for a minute...so faint I have to put my face up against the screen and scrutinise every inch of the display. I guarantee if I showed it to someone who had never heard of this issue they wouldn't see it, where as I am looking for it.

I reckon at some point, someone with one of the new iMacs will say if you have a red background open for 45 mins, you get a pink tinge on the screen for 5 seconds...and all hell breaks out...Red-gate.

Not all LGs will have the same level or IR as others. If it is really bad do something about it. If it isn't, stop looking for it.
1. The rMBP are very expensive machines (base rMBP13 is 2500 USD over here), marketed as top of the line with special emphasis on the retina display.

2. Image retention after only a few minutes, as some people are experiencing is not really acceptable for such a machine or technology. TN displays seem to be nearly immune to IR in practice.
Apple of course only talks about the benefits compared to "those terrible TN screens", but I would consider image retention of tabs, backgrounds etc, as a major drawback and very distracting.

3. IR can get worse over time (see my links in another post), whereas getting Apple to fix a problem (through an expensive replacement or repair) on a 6 month old machine is hard. Perhaps it's easier in the US, but in Europe Apple has a much smaller presence, and often the sales are via approved 3rd party retailers, due to a lack of Apple Stores - some otherwise rich Western European countries have no direct Apple retail presence at all.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 09:53 AM   #36
sno1man
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personal experience

I bought something like the second 15 retina that my Apple store got in. It had an LG screen.

When the whole "IR" thing started bubbling up originally i did a quick check on mine and it was fine.

Fast forward to early October and I saw it on mine in the course of normal use (editing a pages doc and working in photoshop) I saw "shadows" of the images I was working on in Photoshop in the Pages doc.

So that anecdotally argues that the problem can start to occur/get worse over time.

On the other hand, human nature is probably involved too and once I noticed it, I started seeing it everywhere. It bugged me enough that I took it in and Apple replaced the screen (with a Samsung)

I'm not going to pontificate (unlike Spetsnazos) on which is the better screen, to my eyes its a draw with the LG having better blacks than the Samsung, but obviously not having any IR.

On the blacks aspect, i noticed that immediately when i watched a video. On the samsung there is a slight but visible "border" between the screen and the bezel which was not obvious with the LG
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:36 AM   #37
Spetsnazos
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Oh yea bash the guy who states the facts...why do you guys hate the truth about LGpanels??? They produce IR its not a myth lots of people posted that here.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:02 AM   #38
sno1man
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Originally Posted by Spetsnazos View Post
Oh yea bash the guy who states the facts...why do you guys hate the truth about LGpanels??? They produce IR its not a myth lots of people posted that here.
It's not the "truth" we have an issue with, it's the way you present yourself as the sole source of said "truth" when there is lots of information out there that contradicts you.

The mob has an expression "the smartest guy in the graveyard....."
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:03 AM   #39
N19h7m4r3
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I can't speak for the rMBP as I don't own one yet, but my Hazro 27" monitor uses an LG IPS panel and I've had it well over a year without any IR what so ever.

I'm sure there are people with the problem, but in that case you can return it if it's annoying. I'd say blanket stating all LG panels have the same problem is just false.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:11 AM   #40
Brian Y
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I can't speak for the rMBP as I don't own one yet, but my Hazro 27" monitor uses an LG IPS panel and I've had it well over a year without any IR what so ever.

I'm sure there are people with the problem, but in that case you can return it if it's annoying. I'd say blanket stating all LG panels have the same problem is just false.
Well for a start - I have an LG rMBP display which shows 0 signs of IR, even when I run the silly test.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:16 AM   #41
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This thread is simply full of comedic gold.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:20 AM   #42
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This thread is simply full of comedic gold.
Agreed.

Reminds me of an axiom a former boss of mine had....

"On the internet, no one knows you're a dog, OTOH, it becomes obvious pretty quickly if you're a tool..."
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 02:03 AM   #43
Jedi
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After many Mac`s I bought a MBP-R (rMBP)

Hi Guy`s ,

As the title suggest , I bought a MacBook Pro - Retina.

Base model ( but with very great spec`s , I have the 15" ).

I was purchased on 12/14 and I also bought a book !

OS-X Mountain Lion : The Missing Manual ( very good books & author , my 3rd ).

Anyway , after reading parts of the book , and a fair nights sleep , I decided to unwrap the new MBP.

Used my Mac-Mini to get some initial startup guidance for iCloud and any Apple and App Store ID`s I might need ( rather than change later ).

Then I did a "date my mac" search and found out the following:

Manufactured during week 49 of 2012.

Then I powered up the MBP and did my login / registration thing , signed onto my network / set my my e-mail and it downloaded a couple of updates (iLife) - have not used iTunes yet so it did not pick up on Thursday nights upgrade.

Then I opened the "Terminal" and copied & pasted the "screen" string and
I have an LG display.

Right now , I`m not going to worry about it ( to hell I`m not ) , but I do have 28 days left to decide if it`s a keeper. ( purchased at BB ).

I WILL be writing and posting and complete and detailed review in a week or so , but initial thoughts are as follows :

Can`t find anything wrong with the screen yet , of course I have not had it long enough.

Bad Apple = NO MORE can you add your own screen savers and to make matters worst "Cosmos" screen saver is gone , don`t know why Apple did this , but I bet the screen saver feature will get more attention than the actual LCD/LED Display.

I decided on this model over the standard MBP for several reasons that I will get into when I write my full review , but I can say that one reason was from a pure engineering stand point , the layout , no matter what we may think of "glue" or even the daisy chained 6 cell battery layout.

It is symmetrical and and the basic premise for the design is very good.

So there it is , and much more to come , and I`m sure I`ll be calling on you guy`s for help along the way , and I thank you !!

Take care , and Happy Holidays

Gary 
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 04:20 AM   #44
N19h7m4r3
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Looking forward to it Jedi.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 04:09 PM   #45
mac jones
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I have two Retinas both LGs.

I don't know if I have IR, but i've never seen it. I've had these for months.

Maybe it's an eyesight thing. Or it could even be a brain quickness thing. My brain is pretty slow. Maybe there is an image but it only exists for a small amount of time and my brain can't 'get' it.

Maybe I should just return it for this reason?

I'm pretty confused
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 05:20 PM   #46
eeclipse16
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I would say not all LG's have IR but mine did and it was pretty bad, showing up after only 1 min of idle time. I brought it to apple and they sent it out to be repaired and it came back with a Samsung screen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mac jones View Post
I have two Retinas both LGs.

I don't know if I have IR, but i've never seen it. I've had these for months.

Maybe it's an eyesight thing. Or it could even be a brain quickness thing. My brain is pretty slow. Maybe there is an image but it only exists for a small amount of time and my brain can't 'get' it.

Maybe I should just return it for this reason?

I'm pretty confused
Try this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bwh_GnwBFA


Edit.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 06:21 PM   #47
Jedi
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That is severe IR , eeclipse16 , can you tell me [ us ] when it was made ?

Here is a link to do that :

http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html


Thanks for the "youtube" link , I`m glad you got yours taken care of.

Later

Gary 
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:07 PM   #48
theuserjohnny
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From my personal experience I've had 4 LG screen's and they've all had the issue. I now have a Samsung and have been unable to reproduce the problem.

Now there could be LG screens that don't have the problem but based on personal experience and what I've heard from others (here, personal, apple) those who have the LG screen are more than likely to have the problem when compared to Samsung.

That is not to say Samsung screen's have issue's of their own (backlight bleeding, dead/stuck pixels).

I've just been lucky to get a great screen with no issues.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:43 PM   #49
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So I just acquired a 15 inch retina. I did the test and this is what I got. Is this bad? I haven't noticed it otherwise but have only had it a week. Will apple replace? It is an LG screen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wkpm...HAVu9A&index=1

edit: be sure to select HD. And sorry my iPhone 5 had trouble focusing.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 01:30 AM   #50
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Don't fall for the LG trap. All the LG panels I had suffered servere IR. Sometimes it took longer then 3 months but it always happened.

And believe me it looks ugly on a screen you paid over 4000 Euro for....
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