Why so much hate for the new iMac?

Yebubbleman · Dec 14, 2012

53x12 said:
Which makes me wonder if the new Mini offers a better deal except for no dedicated GPU.

It's not a better deal, but it is a historically more reliable computer. If you want a Mac with a dedicated GPU, the best one (in terms of bang for buck, reliability, and DIY servicing), in my honest opinion is the non-retina 15" MacBook Pro.

bill phillips said:
ive come to the realization that theres two simple reasons for the hate 1...their pc users who cant afford an apple and therefore try to make the rest of us feel like were over paying suckers for doing so...or 2....their previous generation iMac users who feel the need to have the next best thing every year but cant afford it and hate on those that do...That simple guys.

Or 3, people want a machine that they can easily upgrade both the RAM AND the hard drive on without having to either use suction cups to pry glass off magnets or some stupid plastic blade tool for removing adhesive. I'm sure the exposed power supply is also less than favorable as well.

See, I like having a DESKTOP that is more functional than aesthetically pleasing. Macs cost way too much money for practicality to take as much of a backseat to aesthetics as it does in the iMacs. I was once an iMac owner. No, there being a newer one didn't make me feel cheated. The fact that I could've squeezed another year and a half of life out of it with an internal hard drive upgrade that Apple wouldn't allow is what made me feel cheated and is why, as a Mac user, I'm no longer willing to consider an iMac as a future machine.

Or did that line of thought not cross your mind at all? Perhaps it's not as simple as you originally thought.

Chihawk725 said:
This is a long thread, but my opinion of the new iMacs is that Apple just got it right.

These new models have many innovations: They're thin. Being a grad student, portability is great but I prefer the size and power of a mobile desktop/ipad combo to a macbook and this design is more aesthetically pleasing. They have better specs than last years model. more base ram, fusion and faster cpu/gpu are showing about a 25% boost in performance. They run cooler and quieter. Every review has said this and I have noticed it on my own new iMac. The screen is a vast improvement. Plasma deposition and direct lamination have created a screen with much less glare and a feeling that the objects on screen are literally right in front of you increasing clarity.

How many more advancements can a company make since last years model?? I am actually amazed at all of the improvements they were able to make.

The new 21.5" iMac runs quieter and cooler because it previously had louder and hotter-running desktop components. Now the GPU, hard drive, and system chipset are all the same type that you'd find on a 15" MacBook Pro. While this makes for a quieter, cooler, and more reliable desktop, this also makes for a weaker desktop than what Apple could've done if they had make the machine larger. They are sacrificing potential extra power in a desktop in the name of aesthetics. That is both stupid and wrong. Aesthetics are less important than practicality, at least at that price point, they really should be.

Hexley said:
That and the lack of FW800 port. 2012 Mac Pro, Mac mini and MBPro still has this port and they have far less space too.

While this disappoints me as well, the disappointment is primarily psychological and isn't grounded in practicality at all; I rarely use my FireWire 800 port, though I like having it there. But if Apple, on newer machines lacking FireWire 800, shipped a complementary Thunderbolt to FireWire 800 adapter, I'd have little reason to complain or care. Really, it seems as though Apple is treating Thunderbolt as the natural successor to FireWire 800 as the premium non-USB connector. I'm fine with that. And luckily, it looks like they're being substantially more aggressive with that than they ever were with the move from FireWire 400 to 800.

53x12 · Dec 14, 2012

Yebubbleman said:
It's not a better deal, but it is a historically more reliable computer. If you want a Mac with a dedicated GPU, the best one (in terms of bang for buck, reliability, and DIY servicing), in my honest opinion is the non-retina 15" MacBook Pro.

The cMBP 15" 2.3 i7/4GB/500GB is a great deal @ $1799 if you want/need to be mobile. But for those that don't, the Mac min is probably a better deal at $799 2.3 i7/4GB/1TB. You can find a very nice monitor for less than $1000. Even the ATD is going for around $829 on Apple's refurb site. You could even go with something cheaper and have money left over for a iPad mini if you needed something portable.

While I agree the discrete GPU is nice, if you need a hardcore GPU the new iMac or the MacPro is a better option. But for the general consumer the HD4000 is probably good enough.

Yebubbleman · Dec 14, 2012

53x12 said:
The cMBP 15" 2.3 i7/4GB/500GB is a great deal @ $1799 if you want/need to be mobile. But for those that don't, the Mac min is probably a better deal at $799 2.3 i7/4GB/1TB.

For a laptop, the cMPB 15" that you quote is a better deal than, for a desktop, the Mac mini that you quote, especially given that, OS disparity a traditional desktop with those specs would be WAY cheaper. The Mac mini's form factor as well as the iMac's form factor, really doesn't lend itself well to being good as far as both raw power AND bang for buck is concerned.

53x12 said:
You can find a very nice monitor for less than $1000. Even the ATD is going for around $829 on Apple's refurb site. You could even go with something cheaper and have money left over for a iPad mini if you needed something portable.

While I agree the discrete GPU is nice, if you need a hardcore GPU the new iMac or the MacPro is a better option. But for the general consumer the HD4000 is probably good enough.

The GT 650M is respectable as far as mobile graphics go, and it beats the HD 5770 in the Mac Pro. Going with a maxed out 27" iMac will give you the best of graphics if you really need it on a machine running geniune OS X, but at that point, if you need more than that, you're better off getting a PC because Apple's desktops really don't offer all that many options as far as graphics are concerned.

53x12 · Dec 14, 2012

Yebubbleman said:
For a laptop, the cMPB 15" that you quote is a better deal than, for a desktop, the Mac mini that you quote, especially given that, OS disparity a traditional desktop with those specs would be WAY cheaper. The Mac mini's form factor as well as the iMac's form factor, really doesn't lend itself well to being good as far as both raw power AND bang for buck is concerned.

Wait what? They both provide the same performance as they have the same exact CPU and RAM. Get right around ~11800 on geekbench. Only difference is one is a laptop (w/ dedicated GPU) and one is a desktop. One costs $1000 more than the other.

If you don't need to be mobile the Mac mini is the better deal. Hands down. Get to pick your own monitor. Lower entry point means when you sell it you lose less on your initial cost.

Also a traditional laptop with those specs would be WAY cheaper as well.

Mac mini is great bang for the buck (Apple wise) for a desktop.

Yebubbleman said:
The GT 650M is respectable as far as mobile graphics go, and it beats the HD 5770 in the Mac Pro. Going with a maxed out 27" iMac will give you the best of graphics if you really need it on a machine running geniune OS X, but at that point, if you need more than that, you're better off getting a PC because Apple's desktops really don't offer all that many options as far as graphics are concerned.

Mac Pro you can go with a AMD Radeon HD 7970 if you want.

daneoni · Dec 14, 2012

My issue is the lack of optical media support on a desktop machine, and moving the SD card slot to a very unnatural position...and all for what? some extra millimetre of pseudo-thinness?

Yebubbleman · Dec 14, 2012

53x12 said:
Wait what? They both provide the same performance as they have the same exact CPU and RAM. Get right around ~11800 on geekbench. Only difference is one is a laptop (w/ dedicated GPU) and one is a desktop. One costs $1000 more than the other.

If you don't need to be mobile the Mac mini is the better deal. Hands down. Get to pick your own monitor. Lower entry point means when you sell it you lose less on your initial cost.

For $800, FOR A DESKTOP, to get a 2.3GHz Quad-Core i7 (though, given those features, Intel might as well have branded that CPU a Core i5), 8GB of RAM, a 5400RPM 1TB hard drive, and only integrated graphics, is a rip-off. It's only in the context of mobility that those specs are respectable, but it's not a laptop, it's a desktop, let alone a desktop without integrated graphics. For what it is, it's a poor deal.

53x12 said:
Also a traditional laptop with those specs would be WAY cheaper as well.

Look them up. The cMBP costs, at most, $200 more than a PC laptop with the same specs. $200 for a laptop whose internals are substantially way more accessible than that of a PC (and way more durable), also with the ability to run OS X, sure, I'll pay $200 extra for that,

53x12 said:
Mac mini is great bang for the buck (Apple wise) for a desktop.

The only way in which that sentence is even remotely agreeable is "(Apple wise)". Out of the context of Macs and in the context of the specs (which are common to PCs), it's a terrible deal.

53x12 said:
Mac Pro you can go with a AMD Radeon HD 7970 if you want.

I'm not talking about cards that you can flash the firmware of and/or modify a kext file for, I'm talking about stock cards that Apple is offering and supporting for those machines.

53x12 · Dec 14, 2012

Yebubbleman said:
For $800, FOR A DESKTOP, to get a 2.3GHz Quad-Core i7 (though, given those features, Intel might as well have branded that CPU a Core i5), 8GB of RAM, a 5400RPM 1TB hard drive, and only integrated graphics, is a rip-off. It's only in the context of mobility that those specs are respectable, but it's not a laptop, it's a desktop, let alone a desktop without integrated graphics. For what it is, it's a poor deal.

For $1800, FOR A LAPTOP, to get a 2.3GHz i7, 4GB of RAM, a 5400RPM 500GB hard drive and a NVIDIA GeFORCE GT 650M with only 512MB of memory, is a rip-off. It is not even in the context of mobility that those specs are respectable or economical. For what it is, it's a poor deal.

Yebubbleman said:
Look them up. The cMBP costs, at most, $200 more than a PC laptop with the same specs. $200 for a laptop whose internals are substantially way more accessible than that of a PC (and way more durable), also with the ability to run OS X, sure, I'll pay $200 extra for that,

Now you are delusional. You can get a Lenovo 2.4 GHz i7 with 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, 2 GB NVIDIA GeForce GT650M and a LED backlit screen for....wait for it... $799. $1000 difference > $200 difference.

Yebubbleman said:
The only way in which that sentence is even remotely agreeable is "(Apple wise)". Out of the context of Macs and in the context of the specs (which are common to PCs), it's a terrible deal.

That is always how it is. Comparing a Mac to a PC in $ never makes sense. So not sure why you brought it up in the fist place. However comparing Macs to oneself still makes sense and the Mini is still great value for the money within the Apple lineup. I will still say best bang for the buck based on price point. Nothing else will beat it.

Yebubbleman said:
I'm not talking about cards that you can flash the firmware of and/or modify a kext file for, I'm talking about stock cards that Apple is offering and supporting for those machines.

Sure compare a computer that has not been updated in 2 years with one that was recently updated. In addition the benefit of the Mac Pro is that you can upgrade and update as you go. That is a good thing.

Yebubbleman · Dec 14, 2012

53x12 said:
For $1800, FOR A LAPTOP, to get a 2.3GHz i7, 4GB of RAM, a 5400RPM 500GB hard drive and a NVIDIA GeFORCE GT 650M with only 512MB of memory, is a rip-off. It is not even in the context of mobility that those specs are respectable or economical. For what it is, it's a poor deal.

Now you are delusional. You can get a Lenovo 2.4 GHz i7 with 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, 2 GB NVIDIA GeForce GT650M and a LED backlit screen for....wait for it... $799. $1000 difference > $200 difference.

Link me to this Lenovo. At the time that these MacBook Pros had come out, the disparity was a low three-digit one, not a low four-digit one.

53x12 said:
That is always how it is. Comparing a Mac to a PC in $ never makes sense. So not sure why you brought it up in the fist place. However comparing Macs to oneself still makes sense and the Mini is still great value for the money within the Apple lineup. I will still say best bang for the buck based on price point. Nothing else will beat it.

It's the cheapest, that's for sure. The best value.

53x12 said:
Sure compare a computer that has not been updated in 2 years with one that was recently updated. In addition the benefit of the Mac Pro is that you can upgrade and update as you go. That is a good thing.

I'm not discounting the benefit of a Mac Pro in terms of upgradability, I'm only comparing CURRENT Apple offerings to other current Apple offerings. If the graphics in their 15" MacBook Pro (and yes, I'm talking about the low-end cMBP, with only 512MB of VRAM) beats the graphics in a low-end Mac Pro, that says something. Desktop graphics should always beat laptop graphics. Similarly the CPUs put in a desktop should ALWAYS be faster than those put in a laptop.

53x12 · Dec 14, 2012

Yebubbleman said:
Link me to this Lenovo. At the time that these MacBook Pros had come out, the disparity was a low three-digit one, not a low four-digit one.

http://dealnews.com/Lenovo-Ivy-Bridge-i7-Quad-16-Laptop-w-2-GB-GPU-for-799-free-shipping/647696.html

Yebubbleman said:
I'm not discounting the benefit of a Mac Pro in terms of upgradability, I'm only comparing CURRENT Apple offerings to other current Apple offerings. If the graphics in their 15" MacBook Pro (and yes, I'm talking about the low-end cMBP, with only 512MB of VRAM) beats the graphics in a low-end Mac Pro, that says something. Desktop graphics should always beat laptop graphics. Similarly the CPUs put in a desktop should ALWAYS be faster than those put in a laptop.

Always? Even when comparing a 2 year old desktop computer with a brand new laptop design? Ok.

Yebubbleman · Dec 14, 2012

53x12 said:
http://dealnews.com/Lenovo-Ivy-Bridge-i7-Quad-16-Laptop-w-2-GB-GPU-for-799-free-shipping/647696.html

I don't take the $799 price tag seriously as it's on one site and it's a deal that expires today. As for the regular price, they've definitely come down since I was last looking at them. Circa August, I was seeing machines comparable to the low-end 15" cMBP at $1400 and $1500 on NewEgg.

53x12 said:
Always? Even when comparing a 2 year old desktop computer with a brand new laptop design? Ok.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even though the technology in that machine is 2 years old, it is technically referred to as the "Mac Pro (Mid 2012)" and is a currently shipping offering from Apple. Yes, I'm comparing two year old desktop hardware to current laptop hardware because these are the options that Apple is offering up. Should I compare the 2013 Mac Pro to the 2012 cMBP? Because that seems like a silly exercise today.

deanbo · Dec 14, 2012

All In One Tends To Mean...

Having an internal optical drive...

slffl · Dec 14, 2012

Bendrix said:
People are upset because they like Apple designs and the OS but they want a different implementation of the hardware. We're not haters, we're just people who feel like we're making a compromise whether going with Apple or another option when it doesn't have to be that way.

If Apple were as focused on performance and upgrade-ability as they are on design, you might well have the perfect product.

Give me a break! I've been using the same iMac for 6 years and it STILL out performs the latest Dells we have at work running Windows 7!

53x12 · Dec 14, 2012

Yebubbleman said:
I don't take the $799 price tag seriously as it's on one site and it's a deal that expires today. As for the regular price, they've definitely come down since I was last looking at them. Circa August, I was seeing machines comparable to the low-end 15" cMBP at $1400 and $1500 on NewEgg.

Deal is from Lenovo's website: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...1C9:0000962F:&cid=us|cse|df|shopping|95412SU&

Do you seriously need me to do your homework for you and show you that PC laptops with similar and/or better specs than the 15" cMBP are much less than the cMBP? Do you really need me to do that for you. It took me 10s to find that one deal. I can find you many more if you need. Apple's cMBP is not just a $200 premium as you tried to make it sound.

Yebubbleman · Dec 14, 2012

53x12 said:
Deal is from Lenovo's website: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...1C9:0000962F:&cid=us|cse|df|shopping|95412SU&

Do you seriously need me to do your homework for you and show you that PC laptops with similar and/or better specs than the 15" cMBP are much less than the cMBP? Do you really need me to do that for you. It took me 10s to find that one deal. I can find you many more if you need. Apple's cMBP is not just a $200 premium as you tried to make it sound.

umadbro?

Again, it's a deal that expires today. And at the time that I was looking, the cMBP was only $200 more than a comparable machine. This was months ago. In addition to admitting that things may have changed and that my info may be out of date would you like me to bake you a cake, or is FedExing you a chill pill enough?

53x12 · Dec 14, 2012

Yebubbleman said:
umadbro?

Again, it's a deal that expires today. And at the time that I was looking, the cMBP was only $200 more than a comparable machine. This was months ago. In addition to admitting that things may have changed and that my info may be out of date would you like me to bake you a cake, or is FedExing you a chill pill enough?

Here are more deals. Laughable that you think MBP are within $200 of their competitors. Apple has always and will always be the price premium product. Look at iPad mini vs Nexus 7 and iPad 4 vs Nexus 10.

http://dealnews.com/m/deal.html/631560.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/marketplace/2740-3121_7-113036.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/marketplace/2740-3121_7-115796.html

Yebubbleman · Dec 14, 2012

53x12 said:
Here are more deals. Laughable that you think MBP are within $200 of their competitors. Apple has always and will always be the price premium product. Look at iPad mini vs Nexus 7 and iPad 4 vs Nexus 10.

http://dealnews.com/m/deal.html/631560.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/marketplace/2740-3121_7-113036.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/marketplace/2740-3121_7-115796.html

Cake or chill pill? Or are you one of those "I need to have my cake (and chill pill) and eat it too" kind of person?

toddzrx · Dec 15, 2012

Chihawk725 said:
This is a long thread, but my opinion of the new iMacs is that Apple just got it right.....

How many more advancements can a company make since last years model?? I am actually amazed at all of the improvements they were able to make.

I'm not.

I don't count making the iMac thinner as much of an advancement, especially when you consider that they've put the SD slot on the back and eliminated easy RAM access on the 21.5" model. I'm not upset at the OD being gone; it was expected (even though I personally still need one).

Personally, I wish they had updated the screen and internals but kept the same unibody design of the '09-'11 models.

My situation is that I was waiting to see the iMac redesign to make a decision, having used my 1st gen 17" Macbook Pro (upgraded with an SSD and maxed out RAM) to the hilt (even had to buy an external monitor because the screen broke). While I am glad for the low-glare screen and expected CPU/RAM upgrade, I am appalled at the lack of upgrade options on the base 21.5" model. Worse is a lack of any SSD options for any of the 21.5's.

I do think Apple put form over function. If I were forced into buying new right now, I'd be going with a Mini that I could easily upgrade the internals on myself. As it turns out, I found a good deal on Craigslist for a mid-2010 21.5" (the $1500 model), installed the SSD from the old MBP and added RAM, and I now have a much faster computer for half the cost of a new base iMac. I'd have to buy the $1500 model and the Fusion Drive upgrade to have something roughly as fast or maybe faster, and that's just not worth it to me.

In the end, I wouldn't call it "hating" the new iMac. More like disappointed. I just don't see the value in it.

majkom · Dec 15, 2012

for me, it is simple - no SSD, no money for apple, I am not going to get ripped off for any ssd option by apple - base 21 - no ssd at all, pay 450 bucks (actually, even more here in Europe) for 128 SSD in 21 incher is not just rip off, it is robery... and 5400 rpm is joke... so, no imac 2012 for me

jmgregory1 · Dec 15, 2012

53x12 said:
Here are more deals. Laughable that you think MBP are within $200 of their competitors. Apple has always and will always be the price premium product. Look at iPad mini vs Nexus 7 and iPad 4 vs Nexus 10.

http://dealnews.com/m/deal.html/631560.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/marketplace/2740-3121_7-113036.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/marketplace/2740-3121_7-115796.html

There may be exceptions to the rule, but from my 20+ years of real world experience, the old adage that you get what you pay for is true most of the time. Lenovo, from my experience, is cutting prices by cheapening the screens they use, among other things.

Anyone who compares just based upon specs also isn't taking into account the user experience. Things like trackpad operation and keyboard feel are hardware related things that have a direct impact on user experience, not counting the software differences between Mac and PC.

Until I went completely Apple with my work computers about 5 years ago, the previous 15+ years of using PC's included almost every manufacturer and I don't remember any PC laptop lasting more than 2 years, most died or had to be replaced in a year or less. I may be just a single sample point and it is possible I lucked out in getting a bunch of defective products from different PC manufacturers, but my experience with Apple revolved around my wanting to upgrade or change from desktop (iMac to Mac Pro) or laptop (MacBook Pro 15" to MacBook Air 13"), not because any of the computers died. In fact they're all still working and being used. Even the MBP works after falling out of a truck and having the screen shatter, it still works great hooked up to an external monitor.

Even the last HP think pad knock-off I had, which was priced similarly to a MacBook Pro and felt and looked like a great laptop, died in the first 90 days and the replacement I got couldn't make it a year.

majkom · Dec 15, 2012

jmgregory1 said:
Until I went completely Apple with my work computers about 5 years ago, the previous 15+ years of using PC's included almost every manufacturer and I don't remember any PC laptop lasting more than 2 years, most died or had to be replaced in a year or less. I may be just a single sample point and it is possible I lucked out in getting a bunch of defective products from different PC manufacturers, but my experience with Apple revolved around my wanting to upgrade or change from desktop (iMac to Mac Pro) or laptop (MacBook Pro 15" to MacBook Air 13"), not because any of the computers died. In fact they're all still working and being used. Even the MBP works after falling out of a truck and having the screen shatter, it still works great hooked up to an external monitor.

Even the last HP think pad knock-off I had, which was priced similarly to a MacBook Pro and felt and looked like a great laptop, died in the first 90 days and the replacement I got couldn't make it a year.

LOL, this means nothing... my HP office notebook (nx6125) lasted without any problem 6 years, maybe works till know (I gave it to friend), my fathers own build pc lasted 10 years with one issue after approx 6 years, my mac mini had to be repaired after one year (wifi died), my macbook air first gen - HDD died after 4 years... my imac has dead pixel after 1,5 years... does that mean anything?

jmgregory1 · Dec 15, 2012

majkom said:
LOL, this means nothing... my HP office notebook (nx6125) lasted without any problem 6 years, maybe works till know (I gave it to friend), my fathers own build pc lasted 10 years with one issue after approx 6 years, my mac mini had to be repaired after one year (wifi died), my macbook air first gen - HDD died after 4 years... my imac has dead pixel after 1,5 years... does that mean anything?

Yes it does mean something. Apple has the highest rating for quality for a reason. Building junk for the lowest possible price has been a race to the bottom and HP, Dell and the like have paid the price for following this bad business model.

I'm glad you've had cheap pc's that have lasted. That's great for you.

53x12 · Dec 15, 2012

Yebubbleman said:
Cake or chill pill? Or are you one of those "I need to have my cake (and chill pill) and eat it too" kind of person?

You made the statement that it was a one time deal ending that day. So I provided you with other links to show you there are other deals similar to that one.

jmgregory1 said:
There may be exceptions to the rule, but from my 20+ years of real world experience, the old adage that you get what you pay for is true most of the time. Lenovo, from my experience, is cutting prices by cheapening the screens they use, among other things.

Anyone who compares just based upon specs also isn't taking into account the user experience. Things like trackpad operation and keyboard feel are hardware related things that have a direct impact on user experience, not counting the software differences between Mac and PC.

Until I went completely Apple with my work computers about 5 years ago, the previous 15+ years of using PC's included almost every manufacturer and I don't remember any PC laptop lasting more than 2 years, most died or had to be replaced in a year or less. I may be just a single sample point and it is possible I lucked out in getting a bunch of defective products from different PC manufacturers, but my experience with Apple revolved around my wanting to upgrade or change from desktop (iMac to Mac Pro) or laptop (MacBook Pro 15" to MacBook Air 13"), not because any of the computers died. In fact they're all still working and being used. Even the MBP works after falling out of a truck and having the screen shatter, it still works great hooked up to an external monitor.

Even the last HP think pad knock-off I had, which was priced similarly to a MacBook Pro and felt and looked like a great laptop, died in the first 90 days and the replacement I got couldn't make it a year.

I agree. Was just stating that the cMBP isn't just a "$200" premium over PC laptops with the same hardware specs. It is much more than that. Partly because you have many PC brands competing against one another and significant sales vs being lucky to get $150-200 off on blackfriday on a Mac. Hardware for hardware PC's give you more, but I wouldn't want one because of the things you mentioned; quality, user experience and having to deal with Windows.

majkom · Dec 15, 2012

jmgregory1 said:
Yes it does mean something. Apple has the highest rating for quality for a reason. Building junk for the lowest possible price has been a race to the bottom and HP, Dell and the like have paid the price for following this bad business model.

I'm glad you've had cheap pc's that have lasted. That's great for you.

And I am not so glad that almost 3 of 5 expensive macs I own/owned had some problems...
Point is, that your blind statement that apple hw is better quality then comparable hw of other brand is simply only your wish.. every hw fails from time to time, HPs, IBMs, Apples, Dells...

jmgregory1 · Dec 15, 2012

majkom said:
And I am not so glad that almost 3 of 5 expensive macs I own/owned had some problems...
Point is, that your blind statement that apple hw is better quality then comparable hw of other brand is simply only your wish.. every hw fails from time to time, HPs, IBMs, Apples, Dells...

No, the facts stand for themselves. Overall as a percentage of ownership, Apple computers have less problems and their customer service is rated higher as well. I made a point to say it was my experience on both sides of the fence, but again the statistics don't lie. Apple makes higher quality products with a higher rated user experience than any PC brand.

You can argue all you want. I'm not denying you had issues with your Macs, but unfortunately your experience is not the norm.

jeremy5561 · Dec 15, 2012

The 680mx is quite an expensive GPU, I'm not sure how expensive but probably about the same price as a desktop 680.

A lot of people don't see the value in design and see the computer from a more functional point of view. In that regard, making it thin and pretty could be a mistake because it's form factor means reduced performance. Because of the all-in-one form factor, the 680mx is used instead of the desktop 680, even though they're about the same price. In terms of function, the form factor doens't provide functional benefits. In fact, the form factor also means sacrificing a DVD drive. If performance and function is that important to you then you can something much better with a desktop PC.

But many mac users use their computers for things other than gaming, or they value design more. The 680mx might not be as good as a desktop 680 but it'll run games fine for the majority of mac users. Some people buy macs and are happy with it because of the design and some people buy macs and regret it afterwards because they bought it for the design and they realize that it doesn't perform as well as a similarly priced desktop PC.

Do your research, buy a PC if it suits you. PC's are fine, I don't like how mac users hate on PC's or get all smug about their macs. But macs are really nice computers too. It depends on what matter to you.

Why so much hate for the new iMac?

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