Apple's Removes Mentions of Safari for Windows, But Version 5.1.7 Still Available For Now [Updated]

[ixodes]

Originally Posted by Pianoblack3

Yes, cause they both knew people would dish out 4 figures to buy a computer to use the latest Safari, when they have plenty of other options besides Chrome and Firefox… Opera comes to mind.

The latest rev of Opera runs fast, and very smooth on my Macs & PCs. I've always enjoyed Opera.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I noticed Safari 6 is also not available for Snow Leopard at all either. Given it's only a couple of years old and wasn't even stable until its last release (10.6.8), I find that ridiculous personally and all the more reason to stick with Firefox.

[smoledman]

Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum

I noticed Safari 6 is also not available for Snow Leopard at all either. Given it's only a couple of years old and wasn't even stable until its last release (10.6.8), I find that ridiculous personally and all the more reason to stick with Firefox.

Snow Leopard came out in August 2009.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Originally Posted by smoledman

Snow Leopard came out in August 2009.

WTF is your point??? Snow Leopard was heavily buggered and even downright UNUSABLE in some respects when it first came out. 10.6.8 (the first really stable version) came out just over a year ago! Tiger had a very long development cycle and the fist iteration of it was a LONG way from the last. In other words, you seem stuck on the idea of a NAME rather than an actual software release. If 10.6.8 had come out in 2009, you'd have a point. But it came out last year, which makes your point downright absurd.

Apple seems to think it doesn't need to support hardware it's already sold (they didn't support H264 acceleration in my late 2008 MBP a freaking year later even while it's supported even in WindowsXP, an OS that hasn't had a real upgrade since 2008, yet it's still XP, so by your thinking, it came out in 2001.

Even so, Safari 6 is a waste of time for everyone. It's dropped RSS support and that's about the stupidest move Apple has made this year (well short of integrating 3rd party social apps into its operating system, a move that is nearly certain to create hacking opportunities that never existed before, not to mention it's juvenile as only teenagers and kiddies (and those that want to get their attention like celebrities and relatives) use Twitter and Facebook as they clearly have no lives what-so-ever and feel the need to tell strangers when they're taking a dump, for god's sake.

[Pianoblack3]

Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum

WTF is your point??? Snow Leopard was heavily buggered and even downright UNUSABLE in some respects when it first came out. 10.6.8 (the first really stable version) came out just over a year ago! Tiger had a very long development cycle and the fist iteration of it was a LONG way from the last. In other words, you seem stuck on the idea of a NAME rather than an actual software release. If 10.6.8 had come out in 2009, you'd have a point. But it came out last year, which makes your point downright absurd.

Apple seems to think it doesn't need to support hardware it's already sold (they didn't support H264 acceleration in my late 2008 MBP a freaking year later even while it's supported even in WindowsXP, an OS that hasn't had a real upgrade since 2008, yet it's still XP, so by your thinking, it came out in 2001.

Even so, Safari 6 is a waste of time for everyone. It's dropped RSS support and that's about the stupidest move Apple has made this year (well short of integrating 3rd party social apps into its operating system, a move that is nearly certain to create hacking opportunities that never existed before, not to mention it's juvenile as only teenagers and kiddies (and those that want to get their attention like celebrities and relatives) use Twitter and Facebook as they clearly have no lives what-so-ever and feel the need to tell strangers when they're taking a dump, for god's sake.

I love you. Everything you said was just right!:')

I too, think that iOS features should stay, iOS. It's the consumer world finally reaching the modern day Macintosh, which is a shame. I dislike everything that Apple likes to call 'New' in Mountain Lion simply because none of it will help 90% of it's users. Yes you can argue that you can avoid them, but the point is Apple put them in there in the first place!.

[steve-p]

Originally Posted by Pianoblack3

I too, think that iOS features should stay, iOS. It's the consumer world finally reaching the modern day Macintosh, which is a shame. I dislike everything that Apple likes to call 'New' in Mountain Lion simply because none of it will help 90% of it's users. Yes you can argue that you can avoid them, but the point is Apple put them in there in the first place!.

I appreciate the constantly improving integration between both my MBPs, iPhone, iPad and Apple TV. There are some pointless things too, but OS X is still alive and well as it's own product in my opinion, despite the convergence. I don't know why anyone would use Launchpad for example when the combination of Dock and Spotlight search for apps is much more efficient than splattering every app into a multi-page iOS like grid, but Apple doesn't make me use it, so no big deal.

[massiwippi]

Soon Apple will invade Poland. Just watch!

[grahamperrin]

Originally Posted by MacRumors

Update: … it appears that Safari for Windows is now not directly linked anywhere in Apple's official download pages.

Two steps:

01) Apple - Support - Downloads

02) above the word Internet, click the Safari icon.



Top of the list: Safari 5.1.7 for Windows.

[grahamperrin]

Originally Posted by cwallace

safari is also now no longer present on the windows apple software update application.

The .sucatalog for Windows, used by Apple Software Update, does include Safari.msi 5.34.57.2 for update purposes, to Safari 5.1.7 (7534.57.2).

[grahamperrin]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

Apple's awful UI integration on Windows

Michael Muchmore, PC Magazine’s lead analyst for software and Web applications, describes 5.1.7 for Windows:

"… gorgeous … Safari would win the browser beauty pageant. … pleasures to behold. The browser window radiates the tasteful, understated design prowess that has become a hallmark of the Cupertino tech luminary. And it's not just looks …"

YMMV, depending on what you want from an interface.

[Lennholm]

Originally Posted by aurichie

The latest versions of Safari depend upon cutting-edge technologies that are just not available on the Windows side. Apple was never going to release a diluted Safari experience. If you want the best in class web browser, you'll need a Mac capable of running the latest and greatest versions of OS X.

Pure nonsense. Furthermore, Chrome is still the best browser on both systems and Firefox has finally gotten its act together again and leaped ahead of Safari.

[MythicFrost]

Originally Posted by Lennholm

Pure nonsense. Furthermore, Chrome is still the best browser on both systems and Firefox has finally gotten its act together again and leaped ahead of Safari.

I think Safari is far superior on OS X, and even Windows too. I've been using Chrome on Windows since Safari 6 was released, and I really don't like it that much.

[Beta Particle]

I’m still holding out hope that they will release a version of Safari 6 once iOS 6 launches, but it’s seeming less and less likely now.

Hopefully they will at least release an updated version of the iCloud control panel that allows it to sync with other browsers, and add tab sync support.

I am currently having to use a borrowed MacBook 1,1 which cannot run Lion, so there is no iCloud sync and I am amazed at just how limiting it seems without it now—I used it far more than I had realised.

Failing that, I’d like to be able to change the default browser on iOS to one which has cross-platform sync support. (even if performance must suffer as a result)

Originally Posted by Lennholm

Pure nonsense. Furthermore, Chrome is still the best browser on both systems and Firefox has finally gotten its act together again and leaped ahead of Safari.

Firefox never had to “get its act together”—you were just distracted by the flavour of the month. They have been consistently in the #1 or #2 position in performance tests and memory usage for years now.

The problem is that they are more flexible when it comes to extension support compared to Chrome or Safari, so it’s easier for a user to load up on extensions that slow down the browser. Chrome also obfuscates its memory usage in a way that make it look like it is using less RAM than it is.

This extension flexibility also allows it to be the most secure browser out there with things like Noscript, RequestPolicy, Adblock, BetterPrivacy, Cookie Monster etc. Some of these have clones available for Chrome, but none have the full functionality.


And forgive me if I don’t want to trust all my browsing habits to an advertising company that has shown time and time again that they have no regard for privacy laws.

Originally Posted by aurichie

The latest versions of Safari depend upon cutting-edge technologies that are just not available on the Windows side. Apple was never going to release a diluted Safari experience. If you want the best in class web browser, you'll need a Mac capable of running the latest and greatest versions of OS X.

Sounds like a bunch of horse manure. What exactly is it that Lion/Mountain Lion offer that would make it impossible to run Safari 6?

[grahamperrin]

Originally Posted by Lennholm

Pure nonsense.

Not entirely.

Chrome is still the best browser on both systems

That's true for only some use cases.

Firefox has finally gotten its act together again and leaped ahead of Safari.

Again, that's true for only some use cases.

Some things that can be done with Safari are impossible with Firefox. Some things that can be done with Firefox may be possible with extensions or plug-ins to Safari. And so on … we're considerably off-topic from Safari for Windows …

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by grahamperrin

Michael Muchmore, PC Magazine’s lead analyst for software and Web applications, describes 5.1.7 for Windows:

"… gorgeous … Safari would win the browser beauty pageant. … pleasures to behold. The browser window radiates the tasteful, understated design prowess that has become a hallmark of the Cupertino tech luminary. And it's not just looks …"

YMMV, depending on what you want from an interface.

You're replying to a comment more then a month old. Bad etiquette aside, that guy talks about aesthetics, whereas I was talking about integration and consistency. So you're not even replying to my comment or talking about the same thing I was.

And frankly, words like "gorgeous" and "beauty pageant" will never describe software UIs to me. Those comments are embarassing.

----------

Originally Posted by Beta Particle

Sounds like a bunch of horse manure. What exactly is it that Lion/Mountain Lion offer that would make it impossible to run Safari 6?

Pixie dust.

----------

Originally Posted by grahamperrin

Some things that can be done with Safari are impossible with Firefox.

Name those things.

As for off topic, this is a month old thread, we're already well beyond its intended life time. Thread ressurection is already bad etiquette, derailing off topic isn't much worse at this point.

[Steve121178]

Originally Posted by aurichie

The latest versions of Safari depend upon cutting-edge technologies that are just not available on the Windows side.

My head just fell off due to excessive laughing.

[Rodimus Prime]

Originally Posted by aurichie

The latest versions of Safari depend upon cutting-edge technologies that are just not available on the Windows side. Apple was never going to release a diluted Safari experience. If you want the best in class web browser, you'll need a Mac capable of running the latest and greatest versions of OS X.

Just keep thinking that. It is far from the truth. It just Apple does not know how to make good software windows side. What speaks volumes about how much safari sucks compared to everyone else is it was at 5% market share when it was OSX only and stayed 5% after going windows. This is with OSX market share growing at the same time.

All apple is doing is just making iCloud even more useless than it already was and hurting its adaption even more because now it will not work on 90% of the computers out there.

[Lennholm]

Originally Posted by Beta Particle

Firefox never had to “get its act together”—you were just distracted by the flavour of the month. They have been consistently in the #1 or #2 position in performance tests and memory usage for years now.

The problem is that they are more flexible when it comes to extension support compared to Chrome or Safari, so it’s easier for a user to load up on extensions that slow down the browser. Chrome also obfuscates its memory usage in a way that make it look like it is using less RAM than it is.

This extension flexibility also allows it to be the most secure browser out there with things like Noscript, RequestPolicy, Adblock, BetterPrivacy, Cookie Monster etc. Some of these have clones available for Chrome, but none have the full functionality.


And forgive me if I don’t want to trust all my browsing habits to an advertising company that has shown time and time again that they have no regard for privacy laws.

I abandoned Firefox at version 4 when all of a sudden the browser started eating up memory and suffer slowdowns, this didn't happen in 3.6. The memory issues has persisted until recently, with Firefox constantly eating up more and more memory just by sitting idle. At work, where I use all major browsers frequently, if I left Firefox running idle over night it could be at 1 GB memory usage when I got back the next morning.

Originally Posted by grahamperrin

Not entirely.

Really? Exactly what 'cutting edge technology' is Safari 6 using that is impossible in Windows?

Some things that can be done with Safari are impossible with Firefox. Some things that can be done with Firefox may be possible with extensions or plug-ins to Safari. And so on … we're considerably off-topic from Safari for Windows …

What can you do with Safari that is impossible with Firefox?

[Beta Particle]

Originally Posted by Lennholm

I abandoned Firefox at version 4 when all of a sudden the browser started eating up memory and suffer slowdowns, this didn't happen in 3.6. The memory issues has persisted until recently, with Firefox constantly eating up more and more memory just by sitting idle. At work, where I use all major browsers frequently, if I left Firefox running idle over night it could be at 1 GB memory usage when I got back the next morning.

You must have had some sort of extension or plugin causing that if it was just eating up RAM when idle.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Originally Posted by Lennholm

Pure nonsense. Furthermore, Chrome is still the best browser on both systems and Firefox has finally gotten its act together again and leaped ahead of Safari.

I don't know what Universe you live in, but I don't find Chrome to be great at all. I guess if the only thing one cares about is raw speed, one might like it. Otherwise, I see nothing great about Chrome when I use it. It looks like crap visually and I have yet to find a theme that changes that (at least Safari looks OK by default but it can't be changed either so it also sucks plus like M$, Apple now just stops supporting it for whatever computer model whenever the hell they feel like it and that's completely unacceptable unless you like buying a new computer every other year). Chrome is nowhere near as configurable as Firefox and I always have this nagging suspicion that Google has all kinds of spyware built into it. Ever notice how freaking slow their search page runs for something so simple looking? That's because they're always running oodles of crap in the background or some stupid half-hidden app or ad (their own pad being the latest) into the page rather than just offering a high speed search engine like they used to once upon a time.

How long until their browser does the same? If it's anything like Sheetz (the gas station chain), they'll lure you in with low or reasonable gas prices, get you hooked on their food items or whatever and then jack the premium gas first 30 and now 50 cents over regular (compared to 20 and 22 cents for all the other places locally) and hope you don't notice or care. Well, I care; I stopped going there (no longer buying coffee or anything else in the process so they lose more than just gas) there over 4 years ago. I don't use Safari or Chrome anymore for the same reasons. The customer should be king, not the corporation. First Safari said no plugins and kept stopping things that worked around it. Then they finally supported them, but they're very limited and now their browser no longer works on ANY of my Macs (I'm not switching to Mountain Lion on my MBP since it would make several of my Rosetta compatible software packages stop functioning and of course Apple dumped all OS support for my PPC server a LONG time ago).

Firefox is the only browser that can be made to look great (Noia theme), be fully configured to behave to taste (i.e. things like Tab Mix Plus that let me make it behave the way I want to, not the way some giant corporation like Apple or Google wants it to) and has by far the best number of add-ons to achieve those ends. Nit-picking over TINY little amounts of speed differences on blog pages and the like it just plain absurd. Anyone that picks their browser that way is going to be switching every other day. There are some things more important in browsing than just raw speed. Besides, Firefox can be made to look and behave the same on my Mac, Linux and Windows machines and share bookmarks, etc. between all of them. I did lose support for my PPC machine awhile back (nothing much supports it anymore), but TenFourFox keeps it going for now and it's more or less Firefox as well.

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

You're replying to a comment more then a month old. Bad etiquette aside, that guy talks about aesthetics, whereas I was talking about integration and consistency. So you're not even replying to my comment or talking about the same thing I was.

And frankly, words like "gorgeous" and "beauty pageant" will never describe software UIs to me. Those comments are embarassing.

I'm constantly amazed how certain people have the nerve to talk about embarrassing comments given the arrogance displayed on these forums over the years. But if you're going to, for god's sake it really helps if you can spell embarrassing correctly, just for starters.

As for off topic, this is a month old thread, we're already well beyond its intended life time. Thread ressurection is already bad etiquette, derailing off topic isn't much worse at this point.

What intended timeline? Who are you to decide how long a topic is valid? If you don't want to discuss this topic, just drop the subscription rather than giving people lectures on how horribly rude they were to actually reply to something you said and challenge any of your ideas. I mean just what were they thinking?

[grahamperrin]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

… a month old. Bad etiquette …

Our personal etiquettes differ.

Personal differences aside: no such time limit in the rules for this forum, things not to do.

[Edgecrusherr]

Originally Posted by slippyr4

Disagree entirely.

Any app should stick to the UI guidelines (yes, there are a lot of guidelines on windows before anyone trolls). It's what users expect. And it's the point of them.

If Microsoft launched a browser on OSX that was skinned like windows - even if it was really good - it would get panned by design any usability purists because it doesn't have a UI consistent with the rest of the OS.

Apple's insistence on making Safari (and iTunes) look like mac apps is a design mistake. It is a case of marketing over appropriate design.

I feel the complete opposite way, they should make it look better then everything else on Windows to show people what they missing. I know that works from many "switcher" I've met. iTunes and Safari (more so the former) were their first taste of Apple on a computer. I just wish Apple could get their own GUI guidelines straight lol.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Originally Posted by Edgecrusherr

I feel the complete opposite way, they should make it look better then everything else on Windows to show people what they missing. I know that works from many "switcher" I've met. iTunes and Safari (more so the former) were their first taste of Apple on a computer. I just wish Apple could get their own GUI guidelines straight lol.

The problem is they aren't missing anything, IMO. I don't like Safari on the Mac either. Then there's the fact that sooner or later they'll stop updating Safari for your Mac and/or the version of OSX you're running (e.g. Sorry Snow Leopard folk; you're supposed to ditch that stable version of OSX and go with something less predictable like Lion and Mountain Lion where things you count on like SMB doesn't work for squat with programs like XBMC since Apple went custom and isn't 100% compatible (thank goodness for SMBUp). The point is that you need to count on an updated browser possibly more than anything else on a modern computer (so as to avoid security issues and so web sites using newer features continue to function properly, etc.) and having Apple just dump updates for something like Snow Leopard is unacceptable, IMO. Firefox maintains backwards compatibility for MUCH longer periods of time and so it's a much better choice for stability, IMO.


Apple's biggest problem is they cannot commit to ANYTHING. They are constantly getting into new markets and then just ditching them (or just letting them rot away slowly with ridiculously slow updates so that the market abandons them instead) anywhere from a few years to several years later. A few examples:

-Firewire on iPods (ditched for that awful USB thing they hated so much)

-Xserve (Who wants to sell servers with OSX? Is it just a toy operating system?) This with mixed messages like adding Exchange support while ditching their business lines and letting their Mac Pro rot on the shelf (3+ years out of date now) and turning their Macbook Pros into consumer machines with a bogus "pro" label. Add to that ditching FW (and Ethernet) ports on Retina machines, Express Card slots on all notebooks now, the 17" MBP model that still had them, trading out true matte screens for glossy (and offering two-bit covers and now somewhat matte glass filters instead).

-Updates to their professional software lines in a timely fashion (first cheesing off their Final Cut Pro customers by not only releasing a product replacement that wasn't ready AT ALL to "replace" FCP, but adding insult to injury, they pulled FCP 7 before addressing the problems, leaving real professionals in quite a bind and causing many to run back to Windows. Logic Pro has been sitting idle save minor bug fixes for several years now too. Apple appears to be 5x more interested in selling phone updates than professional computer products.

-Apple introduces Safari for Windows and then unceremoniously dumps it a few years later without so much as a press release or even a few words verifying that is really dead (because then they might get some negative feedback). To their credit (or discredit), though, Apple supported Safari for WindowsXP FAR longer than their own operating system versions, having dumped support for it in Leopard many years ago and even Snow Leopard despite it being sold less than two years ago. Why would ANYONE want to count on or trust a browser like that where you have to buy a new computer or operating system just to keep your freaking web browser running? Oh wait. That reminds me of Microsoft since they did the same thing is cheesed off one heck of a load of XP users in the process (who then just as unceremoniously moved to Firefox and Chrome. Apple watched Microsoft lose that giant share of browsing market share and asked themselves why aren't they copying that GREAT idea!?!?

-Then there's iTunes...yeah just do whatever you feel like Apple with no consideration of feedback from your users as your move to black and white icons and that hideous new dock icon proved a few years ago and now ditching cover flow (which was once hailed as a great new feature) without a single thought to those that actually like or use it once in awhile, even if only for certain sources. Don't follow your own standards guidelines (like that stoplight red/yellow/green set of vertical buttons showed) and now make iTunes 11 look even odder in that regard. Apple changes their style guides so often they can't even keep up with their own software to follow it, let alone expect anyone else to (how long did it take to get iTunes to Cocoa (without relying on Carbon), again? )

-Carbon...oh that reminds me of Rosetta. Yeah, too bad if anyone was using that or had older software that depended on it, but they already showed by dropping Classic in Leopard (even though PPC was going to be dropped anyway in Snow Leopard so they could have waited that one last version to ditch it) that they didn't give a crap what their users thought and left many still using Tiger for no other reason.

I'm sure I could think of some more things if I tried, but I'm tired.

[haruhiko]

Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum

WTF is your point??? Snow Leopard was heavily buggered and even downright UNUSABLE in some respects when it first came out. 10.6.8 (the first really stable version) came out just over a year ago! Tiger had a very long development cycle and the fist iteration of it was a LONG way from the last. In other words, you seem stuck on the idea of a NAME rather than an actual software release. If 10.6.8 had come out in 2009, you'd have a point. But it came out last year, which makes your point downright absurd.

Apple seems to think it doesn't need to support hardware it's already sold (they didn't support H264 acceleration in my late 2008 MBP a freaking year later even while it's supported even in WindowsXP, an OS that hasn't had a real upgrade since 2008, yet it's still XP, so by your thinking, it came out in 2001.

Even so, Safari 6 is a waste of time for everyone. It's dropped RSS support and that's about the stupidest move Apple has made this year (well short of integrating 3rd party social apps into its operating system, a move that is nearly certain to create hacking opportunities that never existed before, not to mention it's juvenile as only teenagers and kiddies (and those that want to get their attention like celebrities and relatives) use Twitter and Facebook as they clearly have no lives what-so-ever and feel the need to tell strangers when they're taking a dump, for god's sake.

Leopard was delayed due to the development of iPhone. It's not a typical cycle.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Originally Posted by haruhiko

Leopard was delayed due to the development of iPhone. It's not a typical cycle.

I'm not sure what "typical" is when an OS is that new (i.e. 10.1 = unusable mess and you only had two prior OS updates until Tiger, so it wasn't much to go on at that point).

Regardless, constant updates to the OS destabilizes things badly and it's worse yet when Apple refuses to support prior versions of its own operating system (it was a joke when Safari updates were available for XP, but not Leopard, for example). Right now there's a lot of people still using Snow Leopard because it's stable, it still supports Rosetta (which some still need or want), SMB still works (with things like XBMC, etc. that are broken in Lion and Mountain Lion) and by the time Lion was stable, they moved right on to Mountain Lion with no ability to buy Lion any longer (meaning you then had to move to YET ANOTHER *UNSTABLE* version of OSX to upgrade).

The one thing Microsoft has typically gotten right over the years is acknowledging that there are groups of computers users that don't need the latest whiz-bang feature instantly. What they need is STABILITY (lack of bugs, lack of surprises) and Apple just doesn't seem to know what that is lately. They should either be pushing longer minor updates (so one can buy the default version and upgrade to the most stable version at their own pace) or they should be supporting older more stable versions of the operating system for much longer periods of time. The last thing Apple needs long-term is to be known for an unstable and therefore unusable operating system.