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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:22 AM   #26
MonkeySee....
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Originally Posted by siiip5 View Post
IPhone just works well? Well, except for the light bleed issue, that pesky pixelization issue with the keyboard, the maps fiasco and of course bending easily and cracking screens. In fact, it is such a clear winner that Apple refuses to give out sales figures on the [phone 5.

Oh and by the way, your info about Apple having more apps and being able to sync with other devices via iCloud are wrong. My Nexus device won't work with iCloud. Hower, Google's cloud service will work with anything.

It is obvious that the iPhone is Nothing more than a has-been product, getting left further and further behind.
Funniest thing on this forum today.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:23 AM   #27
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Who doesn't like 64 separate icons on their phones? I mean come on, how hard can it be to turn off bluetooth quickly- just go tap the screen 3 times.

Sarcasm aside, yes- iOS is as stale as my grandma's buckskin bra.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:38 AM   #28
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What twaddle is this?

iOS is not OS X. They serve two different purposes. If you can't see that you're not going to be able to understand the rest of the debate.
So you see no merit whatsoever in being allowed to use Chrome--or whatever browser we want--as default?

As time marches on I am finding it more and more ludicrous that Apple refuses to allow apps other than their own to be the default.

How anyone can defend that practice, is beyond me. If they love Safari so much they could continue to use it as their default browser. So what valid argument is there against allowing it? (Calling something "twaddle" is only indicative of the lack of a valid counterpoint.)



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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:46 AM   #29
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So you see no merit whatsoever in being allowed to use Chrome--or whatever browser we want--as default?

As time marches on I am finding it more and more ludicrous that Apple refuses to allow apps other than their own to be the default.

How anyone can defend that practice, is beyond me. If they love Safari so much they could continue to use it as their default browser. So what valid argument is there against allowing it? (Calling something "twaddle" is only indicative of the lack of a valid counterpoint.)



Michael
Did I say that?

The only argument I have is that it barely matters. If you want endless detail like this, you can use Android. iOS has become very successful by being straightforward.

On a desktop, doing general computing tasks, where you generally deal with a file system, it makes a huge amount of sense. On a device like a phone it's a minority concern.

(Making an argument unrelated to the post you're quoting is only indicative of the lack of a valid counterpoint.)
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:49 AM   #30
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So you see no merit whatsoever in being allowed to use Chrome--or whatever browser we want--as default?

As time marches on I am finding it more and more ludicrous that Apple refuses to allow apps other than their own to be the default.

How anyone can defend that practice, is beyond me. If they love Safari so much they could continue to use it as their default browser. So what valid argument is there against allowing it? (Calling something "twaddle" is only indicative of the lack of a valid counterpoint.)



Michael
They keep things to their default so that if any issue should arise they can offer the best support they can.
etc
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:56 AM   #31
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And when they try to update like what they did with iTunes 11 people complain and say they want to roll back to the previous software?
Because people don't want change for change sake. They want changes that help, not hinder. Case in point, the iOS App store. It is better on my original iPhone, running iOS 3.x than it is on my iPhone 4S running 6.x. That is crazy.



Michael

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Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
They keep things to their default so that if any issue should arise they can offer the best support they can.
etc
That is a weak argument (at best). Anyone who has jailbroken and used browser changer can laugh at that argument.

And, for that matter, anyone who has ever used OS X.



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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:03 AM   #32
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The touch UI is a solved problem.

Sure, android has widgets or whatever, but my experience with widgets on every other OS (Windows, OS X Dashboard, etc) is that they are just novelty crap.
I agree that I have found them to be quite useless when I used them on Windows. But on a phone, they are much more useful. On desktops, it is very easy to multitask, so I actually find it easier to open apps to do the task that a widget would. But the way I interact with a phone is completely different from a desktop. Due to the much smaller screen size, some widgets on Android are very useful, and I finding swiping between homepages to look oat widgets to be much faster than opening the relative app.

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Originally Posted by Night Spring View Post
I, for one, have no complaints about iOS's look and feel. I do wish Apple would make the weather icon show the current weather, like the calendar icon shows the current date, but the grid of icons work to organize and launch apps, and I don't feel any need to change that.

The thing about widgets or live tiles is I have no use for them -- I tried a preview version of Windows 8, and it quickly became apparent that the live tile functions were of no use for me, because I had no app that took advantage of them.

I just think that in forums like this, you get a lot of people who are interested in the latest and greatest, and want something new all the time. Meanwhile, the iPhone continues to sell strongly, suggesting that the general public just wants something that works.
It depends. Phones like the Galaxy S3 are also selling in high numbers, so you can't draw a conclusion simply based off of sales.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:04 AM   #33
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Did I say that?
Twaddle? Yep.

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The only argument I have is that it barely matters. If you want endless detail like this, you can use Android. iOS has become very successful by being straightforward.
Yes I know. Wanting to use the same browser on all my devices "barely matters" and is so very detailed lol.

I guess I could hold my nose and use Safari on all my devices and Macs/PCs so I have them all in sync. Oh wait, Apple doesn't make a version of Safari for Android--even if I did want to use it which I don't. Yet Google makes Chrome for iOS. Hmmm....

Safari: the browser that has had an 8 tab limitation on the iPhone since day one. And yet I am stuck with it. Yay.



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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:15 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by tomjleeds View Post
What twaddle is this?

iOS is not OS X. They serve two different purposes. If you can't see that you're not going to be able to understand the rest of the debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomjleeds View Post
Did I say that?

If you want endless detail like this, you can use Android. iOS has become very successful by being straightforward.

On a desktop, doing general computing tasks, where you generally deal with a file system, it makes a huge amount of sense. On a device like a phone it's a minority concern.

(Making an argument unrelated to the post you're quoting is only indicative of the lack of a valid counterpoint.)

How is being able to select a default app twaddle? It caused me lots of frustration at being sent a link in an email, and having no choice but to manually copy and paste the link into Chrome, because tapping it would force me into Safari. Allowing changes to the defaults isn't "twaddle" or "endless detail", its something that makes sense.

As for the File System I will agree that many users don't need access to it, on android you don't unless you download a file system app, and even then it only allows you access to the ones where messing with them won't break your phone. It has come in very handy copying and pasting songs from my Music folder into my Ringtones folder, or moving files from my Downloads folder into my Ringtone or Notification folder if I fancied a new SMS tone or Ringtone.

Even my Dad who loves iOS's simplicity hates how complicated Apple make it to get free ringtones onto your phone. ( As he has Windows I taught him to trim an MP3 down to 30 seconds in iTunes, convert to .m4a and then rename it to .m4r

You're failing to make any valid points, all you're doing it picking up on single points in peoples arguments which I understand is known as a "strawman".
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:20 AM   #35
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How is being able to select a default app twaddle? It caused me lots of frustration at being sent a link in an email, and having no choice but to manually copy and paste the link into Chrome, because tapping it would force me into Safari. Allowing changes to the defaults isn't "twaddle" or "endless detail", its something that makes sense.

As for the File System I will agree that many users don't need access to it, on android you don't unless you download a file system app, and even then it only allows you access to the ones where messing with them won't break your phone. It has come in very handy copying and pasting songs from my Music folder into my Ringtones folder, or moving files from my Downloads folder into my Ringtone or Notification folder if I fancied a new SMS tone or Ringtone.

Even my Dad who loves iOS's simplicity hates how complicated Apple make it to get free ringtones onto your phone. ( As he has Windows I taught him to trim an MP3 down to 30 seconds in iTunes, convert to .m4a and then rename it to .m4r

You're failing to make any valid points, all you're doing it picking up on single points in peoples arguments which I understand is known as a "strawman".
Apples made it really simple actually. You buy them from the apps store.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:37 AM   #36
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Apples made it really simple actually. You buy them from the apps store.
Hence why I said free ringtones He hates the idea of paying again for 30 seconds of a song he already owns.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:37 AM   #37
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How is being able to select a default app twaddle? It caused me lots of frustration at being sent a link in an email, and having no choice but to manually copy and paste the link into Chrome, because tapping it would force me into Safari. Allowing changes to the defaults isn't "twaddle" or "endless detail", its something that makes sense.

As for the File System I will agree that many users don't need access to it, on android you don't unless you download a file system app, and even then it only allows you access to the ones where messing with them won't break your phone. It has come in very handy copying and pasting songs from my Music folder into my Ringtones folder, or moving files from my Downloads folder into my Ringtone or Notification folder if I fancied a new SMS tone or Ringtone.

Even my Dad who loves iOS's simplicity hates how complicated Apple make it to get free ringtones onto your phone. ( As he has Windows I taught him to trim an MP3 down to 30 seconds in iTunes, convert to .m4a and then rename it to .m4r

You're failing to make any valid points, all you're doing it picking up on single points in peoples arguments which I understand is known as a "strawman".
You've got to be ****ing kidding me...

The point about "twaddle" was about the equivalence of OS X and iOS. Frankly I thought this was clear from the rest of my post. Perhaps you need to examine the context a little more.

As regards the file system, in OS X if you want to do something in a file, you typically open the file directly from Finder, which in turn opens the relevant application. In iOS, it's the opposite, you open the application and then choose what file (or equivalent) you're working with.

Apple doesn't want you moving files around, or dropping ringtones into the right system folder, that's the whole point of iOS.

I will admit that in some cases (email attachments for one) it would be useful for some people to be able to choose a default application. The problem is that without hiding this away in a menu somewhere you have to be intrusive - I haven't used the latest versions of Android but up to the Gingerbread days at least, every time you did something new you'd be presented with a list of applications you might want to use, and a checkbox to select as default. Most people don't want to deal with this and Apple have made a huge pile of money by making sure they don't have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinmania View Post
Twaddle? Yep.
Good job avoiding the point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinmania View Post
Yes I know. Wanting to use the same browser on all my devices "barely matters" and is so very detailed lol.

I guess I could hold my nose and use Safari on all my devices and Macs/PCs so I have them all in sync. Oh wait, Apple doesn't make a version of Safari for Android--even if I did want to use it which I don't. Yet Google makes Chrome for iOS. Hmmm....

Safari: the browser that has had an 8 tab limitation on the iPhone since day one. And yet I am stuck with it. Yay.



Michael
Boo hoo.

See above.

Last edited by tomjleeds; Dec 17, 2012 at 10:46 AM.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:49 AM   #38
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You've got to be ****ing kidding me...

The point about "twaddle" was about the equivalence of OS X and iOS. Frankly I thought this was clear from the rest of my post. Perhaps you need to examine the context a little more.

As regards the file system, in OS X if you want to do something in a file, you typically open the file directly from Finder, which in turn opens the relevant application. In iOS, it's the opposite, you open the application and then choose what file (or equivalent) you're working with.

Apple doesn't want you moving files around, or dropping ringtones into the right system folder, that's the whole point of iOS.

I will admit that in some cases (email attachments for one) it would be useful for some people to be able to choose a default application. The problem is that without hiding this away in a menu somewhere you have to be intrusive - I haven't used the latest versions of Android but up to the Gingerbread days at least, every time you did something new you'd be presented with a list of applications you might want to use, and a checkbox to select as default. Most people don't want to deal with this and Apple have made a huge pile of money by making sure they don't have to.
That's what I don't like about iOS, Apple doesn't want me to do something so I can't do it. I can't even have the option to do it.

On Android you open a file, a little box will pop up with apps that can process that request. For example a link would present me with whatever browsers I have, and "Use this app just once" or "Always".
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:59 AM   #39
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That's what I don't like about iOS, Apple doesn't want me to do something so I can't do it. I can't even have the option to do it.

On Android you open a file, a little box will pop up with apps that can process that request. For example a link would present me with whatever browsers I have, and "Use this app just once" or "Always".
Exactly. I love how Android does that. Add an app that can make phone calls, such as Talkatone and it will ask you if you want to use that when make a call (plus any other app you have that can make calls). I don't have to use that feature if I don't want to and can tell it to just use the phone app "always." But the very same app on iOS has no such ability: it can never be the default app for calling. Yet people are calling that a good thing?

Arguing against such choice just looks silly when I see it now. It's like grasping at straws when the evidence is insurmountable.



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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:16 AM   #40
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You're failing to make any valid points, all you're doing it picking up on single points in peoples arguments which I understand is known as a "strawman".
I don't really have a dog in this topic's fight as I'm a reformed Android user for 2 + years and love the way iOS performs in relation to the two platforms. But as a person who gets paid to use "strawman" arguments (), I want to correct your apparent misunderstanding of the term: it's not arguing against a person's point, regardless of how small the point is, but rather it's creating the other person's point (that doesn't otherwise exist) and arguing against it.

Strawmen everywhere thank you for your understanding.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:23 AM   #41
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IPhone just works well? Well, except for the light bleed issue, that pesky pixelization issue with the keyboard, the maps fiasco and of course bending easily and cracking screens. In fact, it is such a clear winner that Apple refuses to give out sales figures on the [phone 5.

Oh and by the way, your info about Apple having more apps and being able to sync with other devices via iCloud are wrong. My Nexus device won't work with iCloud. Hower, Google's cloud service will work with anything.

It is obvious that the iPhone is Nothing more than a has-been product, getting left further and further behind.
I own devices from a lot of different OEMs, including Apple. Believe me they all have issues.

Over the years I've learnt that quality is roughly about the same at Apple, Sony, Lenovo and Samsung. The fit and finish is often better at Apple overall, but in terms of QC and fault rates, it's no better than the other OEM's.

The only reason, and literally, the only reason that you don't hear much about QC issues in competing products is because they are nowhere as popular when talking about any one individual product in their respective lineup. Every little thing apple does is scrutinized under a microscope, whereas other OEMs ship crap daily but the complaints are often confined to enthusiasts on their respective forums.

If you did a search on Sony or lenovo or Samsung forums, virtually every product has it's own set of QC issues that it is notorious for.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:30 AM   #42
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They keep things to their default so that if any issue should arise they can offer the best support they can.
etc
Funniest thing I have read on this forum today.

If you keep everything default, why bother with any real support. A computer prompt, or gasp, the manual will be able to tell you what is wrong. Again, this is why the iPhone doesn't belong in the smartphone category.
Sales of the iPhone aren't what they used to be, which is why you haven't seen Apple post sales figures. All we know if 5 million were sold at release and 2 million sold in China. Nothing else. Apple has always given sales figures out. If the S3 breaks 50 million this year, that will equate to Apples last two quarter sales of ALL iPhones. Now there is a telling figure.

And with no change to the iPhone 5S when it is released, watch those Apple stocks keep dropping. As I said before, iPhone is a has-been product at this point. Until they do something radically different they will keep bleeding customers. 2012 was the beginnig of the end for Apple.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:46 AM   #43
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That's what I don't like about iOS, Apple doesn't want me to do something so I can't do it. I can't even have the option to do it.

On Android you open a file, a little box will pop up with apps that can process that request. For example a link would present me with whatever browsers I have, and "Use this app just once" or "Always".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinmania View Post
Exactly. I love how Android does that. Add an app that can make phone calls, such as Talkatone and it will ask you if you want to use that when make a call (plus any other app you have that can make calls). I don't have to use that feature if I don't want to and can tell it to just use the phone app "always." But the very same app on iOS has no such ability: it can never be the default app for calling. Yet people are calling that a good thing?

Arguing against such choice just looks silly when I see it now. It's like grasping at straws when the evidence is insurmountable.



Michael
Are either of you actually reading my posts at all?!



Perhaps it serves your purposes to ignore my points and instead just rant...
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:48 AM   #44
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I don't really have a dog in this topic's fight as I'm a reformed Android user for 2 + years and love the way iOS performs in relation to the two platforms. But as a person who gets paid to use "strawman" arguments (), I want to correct your apparent misunderstanding of the term: it's not arguing against a person's point, regardless of how small the point is, but rather it's creating the other person's point (that doesn't otherwise exist) and arguing against it.

Strawmen everywhere thank you for your understanding.
Damn, Ive only ever seen that word used here on Mac Rumors, and even after staring at the definition of it, it barely made sense to me

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Originally Posted by tomjleeds View Post
Are either of you actually reading my posts at all?!



Perhaps it serves your purposes to ignore my points and instead just rant...
What points am I being ignorant to? I've made my points towards your points, but instead you're just saying I'm not reading your post?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:59 AM   #45
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What points am I being ignorant to? I've made my points towards your points, but instead you're just saying I'm not reading your post?
Er...

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Originally Posted by tomjleeds View Post
You've got to be ****ing kidding me...

The point about "twaddle" was about the equivalence of OS X and iOS. Frankly I thought this was clear from the rest of my post. Perhaps you need to examine the context a little more.

As regards the file system, in OS X if you want to do something in a file, you typically open the file directly from Finder, which in turn opens the relevant application. In iOS, it's the opposite, you open the application and then choose what file (or equivalent) you're working with.

Apple doesn't want you moving files around, or dropping ringtones into the right system folder, that's the whole point of iOS.

I will admit that in some cases (email attachments for one) it would be useful for some people to be able to choose a default application. The problem is that without hiding this away in a menu somewhere you have to be intrusive - I haven't used the latest versions of Android but up to the Gingerbread days at least, every time you did something new you'd be presented with a list of applications you might want to use, and a checkbox to select as default. Most people don't want to deal with this and Apple have made a huge pile of money by making sure they don't have to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
That's what I don't like about iOS, Apple doesn't want me to do something so I can't do it. I can't even have the option to do it.

On Android you open a file, a little box will pop up with apps that can process that request. For example a link would present me with whatever browsers I have, and "Use this app just once" or "Always".
You basically reworded what I said but from the opposite position?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:15 PM   #46
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Maybe I'm alone in this, but I quite honestly don't give a damn how customizable my phone is. I want my phone to do a few basic things, like calls, texts, emails, and light web browsing; and I want it to do these things exceptionally well. I also want it to keep my appointments and contacts in sync — something I've been making sure of since my first Nokia flip phone in 2007.

iOS does all of these things well, and with iCloud keeps my stuff synced up automatically. It also offers the extra benefit of keeping my calendars and contacts in sync between Macs, PCs, and iPads.

Android, on the other hand, just doesn't seem as polished to me. I don't want to choose default apps. I don't want to SSH into the thing. I don't want to use a custom font. I don't want to slow the thing down with 1000 widgets. Yes, I'm sure syncing could be set up the way I like. But how much time will I have to spend to get it working? After seeing a few friends switch from Android to iOS (and vice-versa), it's clear to me that it isn't necessarily easy to move your data and get it synced.

And on that note, if I have to spend time setting it all up, I'd rather go to the Meego platform. That's ultimate mobile flexibility.

iOS lives up to the classic "it just works" slogan. Yes, there's room for improvement. Live icons would be neat. More freedom for app developers, perhaps. But at the end of the day, I just want my phone to work with minimal effort on my part. The closely guarded iOS app store and ecosystem ensure that.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:40 PM   #47
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Ok metro's time to get a room
I may be wrong but content has not and will not change. Data in folders of some type accessed by us. Humans still have fingers, eyes, voice to interact with OS. That is a constant for sometime. So the basics are pretty much static, what large changes are left? The perception of " staleness" is a user issue. The feeling from watching a great movie fades when watched again and again. The transition of computing devices from workplace machines to handheld personal appliances is amazing. When the hardware catches up and company greed is resolved then some real change will happen. I want Siri to listen like S voice can. I want to be able to speak in conversation form with my phone. Example " create a folder named weekend on my IPAD move two unwatched movies from my list , committee reports for quarter, 3 months of magazines from my list. Colored rectangles on a screen is boring in all OS's.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:45 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by F123D View Post
Thinner, lighter, faster..
What is? I'm not a mind reader, at least try to make some sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by siiip5 View Post
IPhone just works well? Well, except for the light bleed issue, that pesky pixelization issue with the keyboard, the maps fiasco and of course bending easily and cracking screens. In fact, it is such a clear winner that Apple refuses to give out sales figures on the [phone 5.

Oh and by the way, your info about Apple having more apps and being able to sync with other devices via iCloud are wrong. My Nexus device won't work with iCloud. Hower, Google's cloud service will work with anything.

It is obvious that the iPhone is Nothing more than a has-been product, getting left further and further behind.
Out of all those problems you mentioned only one affects me, and that's the awful maps. I have Google Maps so that's a non-issue now.

I meant other Apple devices sync with iCloud, not just any other device. PCs sync with them too, however. Also, I prefer the way that iOS utilises internal storage to store media rather than just the cloud. For example, take a picture on your iPhone and it can be automatically downloaded to your iPad. Download an app/book/song and it can be automatically downloaded to your other Apple devices.

Sorry, I should have said more apps worth having are available

I gave my S3 to my mrs and bought an iPhone 5, so I disagree with you. Android has more features, some of which do make the iPhone look ancient, but I still think the day to day experience of using the iPhone is better.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:56 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomjleeds View Post
Er...
You basically reworded what I said but from the opposite position?
OK that's not what I was trying to put across. You said that you hadn't used Android since a very early version. And you said something that android did. (I've never used a version that really do I don't know) I corrected you on the assertion that android presents you with a big confusing list. I've attached what happens when you select a file in more recent versions of Android. Hardly a confusing list.

Unless youre referring to the sharing option? That is a list, but still its hardly confusing. Anyone wanting to share something will already know what they want to share it with.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 01:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
OK that's not what I was trying to put across. You said that you hadn't used Android since a very early version. And you said something that android did. (I've never used a version that really do I don't know) I corrected you on the assertion that android presents you with a big confusing list. I've attached what happens when you select a file in more recent versions of Android. Hardly a confusing list.

Unless youre referring to the sharing option? That is a list, but still its hardly confusing. Anyone wanting to share something will already know what they want to share it with.
Sharing is one of the things Android is a lot better at.
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