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Old Dec 16, 2012, 11:50 AM   #26
itjw
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There are 2 kinds of eBay users here: users that think they have a way to protect themselves and haven't been scammed YET and: users who know eBay and PayPal are so slanted towards the buyer that its just a matter of time until you sell to a BETTER scammer and lose. Period.

Example: say you did everything:

I sign a false name when I receive the package.

I photograph your box, but replace the contents with rocks (indicating you switched it AFTER you took your video).

There are MANY more ways to defeat every "protection" offered here, but I don't want to give thieves ideas lol...

It'd be fine if eBay wasn't so biased. But they are.

If you haven't been scammed yet you've just gotten lucky. Sorry.

Cash, Craigslist, or Classifieds. In Person, Safe Public Place. 100% no way to get scammed.

Go to your bank if you can't spot fake cash.

You'll even save the fees! You can sell to a friend for a discount!
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 12:14 PM   #27
braddick
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^
Sadly accurate.

When I sell on eBay I also include in the invoice note that their package will be wrapped up and boxed in front of the Post Master (an advantage to living in a sleepy little coastal community where everyone knows everyone else and don't mind extending favors). I do so for their protection (read: my protection!).

The recipient then knows they cannot fake a claim of not receiving the proper item bid and won. If there is a return they're made aware the same procedure will take place in reverse- their return package is opened and inspected in front of my local Post Master.

I'd imagine what I do is like placing placards around your property warning thieves of being armed with guard dogs. The sign itself may be a deterrent.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 12:23 PM   #28
JayLenochiniMac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itjw View Post
I sign a false name when I receive the package.
I've yet to hear of a seller losing a dispute because of that. Signature confirmation is what protects against item not received claims as far as paypal seller protection is concerned.

Quote:
Cash, Craigslist, or Classifieds. In Person, Safe Public Place. 100% no way to get scammed.
It's safer but not 100%. You can get robbed on the spot, given fake cash, etc. unless you take the appropriate precautions.

Quote:
You'll even save the fees!
It's a wash, as CL buyers expect to pay less because there are no fees involved. No savings there.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 02:24 PM   #29
BruiserB
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Or just take the fixed price from instantsale.ebay.com

Have sold through there twice. You may not get top dollar, but will get a fair and hassle free transaction. Gazelle is another reputable alternative but I don't have personal experience with them.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 03:56 PM   #30
itjw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayLenochiniMac View Post
I've yet to hear of a seller losing a dispute because of that. Signature confirmation is what protects against item not received claims as far as paypal seller protection is concerned.



It's safer but not 100%. You can get robbed on the spot, given fake cash, etc. unless you take the appropriate precautions.



It's a wash, as CL buyers expect to pay less because there are no fees involved. No savings there.
Ok then: I have lost a dispute because of a signature not from the buyer. There. Now you have heard of one. After that I have always sent it requiring the direct signature of the recipient, but even that can be beaten.

And LOL to CL buyers... I have sold phones for MORE than what they sell for on eBay, just because people want to be able to see them first.

Just because you can't get what you want for your phone (because you don't take care of it, are a weak negotiator, or just want to sell it fast as possible) does NOT mean there are some super duper buyers that manage to get it for less than wholesale just because it's CL lol.

And when was the last time you heard of a CL buyer getting robbed at a bank? Never right?

It's always the idiots that agree to meet in an abandoned warehouse at midnight.

Use some common sense, and the odds of you getting robbed are effectively ZERO. Be an idiot, and those odds go up. But I bet you knew that already

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by braddick View Post
^
Sadly accurate.

When I sell on eBay I also include in the invoice note that their package will be wrapped up and boxed in front of the Post Master (an advantage to living in a sleepy little coastal community where everyone knows everyone else and don't mind extending favors). I do so for their protection (read: my protection!).

The recipient then knows they cannot fake a claim of not receiving the proper item bid and won. If there is a return they're made aware the same procedure will take place in reverse- their return package is opened and inspected in front of my local Post Master.

I'd imagine what I do is like placing placards around your property warning thieves of being armed with guard dogs. The sign itself may be a deterrent.
At least you're smart enough to know it's only a deterrent.

Hopefully it'll never happen to you, but I'm glad to see you're realistic, unlike some people here who actually think they have an ironclad way to protect themselves. The reality is: eBay loves BUYERS, and tolerates sellers.

If you play the game long enough, you will lose. There are plenty of people like me who thought they covered their bases out there to tell you that is the 100% truth. I almost feel bad for the people who haven't been burned yet. I'm glad I was (in a way), because since moving on to CL I have discovered it to be 100% safe (if you aren't a raging idiot), and fee free. It takes a different skill set (i.e. you have to go OUTSIDE), but it's well worth it. Best of all: NO CHARGE BACKS!!!

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Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:18 PM   #31
AFDoc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itjw View Post
There are 2 kinds of eBay users here: users that think they have a way to protect themselves and haven't been scammed YET and: users who know eBay and PayPal are so slanted towards the buyer that its just a matter of time until you sell to a BETTER scammer and lose. Period.

Example: say you did everything:

I sign a false name when I receive the package.

I photograph your box, but replace the contents with rocks (indicating you switched it AFTER you took your video).

There are MANY more ways to defeat every "protection" offered here, but I don't want to give thieves ideas lol...

It'd be fine if eBay wasn't so biased. But they are.

If you haven't been scammed yet you've just gotten lucky. Sorry.

Cash, Craigslist, or Classifieds. In Person, Safe Public Place. 100% no way to get scammed.

Go to your bank if you can't spot fake cash.

You'll even save the fees! You can sell to a friend for a discount!
The entire point of the video is to video tape yourself placing it in the box, sealing the box and placing it in the drop box. They can say the rocks were there when they got the box but I have a clearly un-edited video from proof of the IMEI untill it's actually dropped and can't be retrieved. Yeah, I'll put that up against any "scam" in the world.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 08:31 PM   #32
JayLenochiniMac
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Originally Posted by itjw View Post
Ok then: I have lost a dispute because of a signature not from the buyer. There. Now you have heard of one. After that I have always sent it requiring the direct signature of the recipient, but even that can be beaten.
It's either a case of "I'll be damned" or there's more to it than you're telling us. I'm having trouble believing that signature confirmation won't protect you under paypal seller protection (regardless of who signs it) as long as it's a paypal confirmed address.

Quote:
And LOL to CL buyers... I have sold phones for MORE than what they sell for on eBay, just because people want to be able to see them first.
Now my BS detector is going off. Everybody knows in general ebay goes for higher than CL because of the bidding wars.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 06:41 PM   #33
itjw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayLenochiniMac View Post
It's either a case of "I'll be damned" or there's more to it than you're telling us. I'm having trouble believing that signature confirmation won't protect you under paypal seller protection (regardless of who signs it) as long as it's a paypal confirmed address.



Now my BS detector is going off. Everybody knows in general ebay goes for higher than CL because of the bidding wars.
And you'd be wrong in both cases.

There was not "more to it". The buyer said someone else signed for their package (it was an expensive book... that I video'd packaging and sent insured, silly me). They signed for it at a post office after the buyer wasn't home for delivery. Even though the post office confirmed the name on the license provided at pick up, PayPal agreed that the signature did not match the one on file and sided with the buyer. After that, my only option was to sue civally (which I did, and won... it's nice to have legal resources for free).

After winning in small claims court, I tried to have PayPal open the case again only to be told it had been too long and that even though they clearly "dropped the ball" there was nothing I could do.

And if you don't believe people pay more for things they can examine in person (even on Craigslist) than you need to have more than your BS meter examined... Just because bidding wars can happen, it doesn't mean everything sold on eBay automatically sells for way more than on CL. It's true that it can be a more cutthroat negotiation, but it doesn't mean that if you have a premium product you need to cheap sell it just because you aren't getting bids. I have sold 3 phones I can think of (a RAZR (near launch), a Nokia 6600 (still a favorite of mine), and an iPhone 4) for MORE than the average eBay price because people didn't have to pay shipping and could see that my descriptions were accurate.

You seem to do nothing but stick up for eBay. That's fine, but it doesn't change the reality that it's a crap shoot every time you sell something. You've gotten lucky. I'm really happy for you, but that doesn't make it reality and that doesn't mean anyone else that's had a problem is making it up either.

I accept that you haven't had an issue. Yet.

Then again, I don't call people a liar just because they don't agree with me either...
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 07:41 PM   #34
JayLenochiniMac
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Originally Posted by itjw View Post
You seem to do nothing but stick up for eBay. That's fine, but it doesn't change the reality that it's a crap shoot every time you sell something. You've gotten lucky. I'm really happy for you, but that doesn't make it reality and that doesn't mean anyone else that's had a problem is making it up either.
I've already admitted that it's basically a crapshoot in getting a good buyer, but you're not doing the readers any favor by giving them the impression that paypal seller protection doesn't work at all or that craigslist is 100% no way to get scammed. Spend enough time on this forum and you'll run across several success stories in which paypal seller protection did work in the seller's favor as well as horror stories involving craigslist.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:11 PM   #35
Mrg02d
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I always laugh at people who think all that video and whatnot matter. EBay and PayPal make it simple...Buyer not happy? They get their money back. It's simple. It's happened to me several times. ALWAYS buy insurance, simple. NEVER sell or buy from people with low feedback.

Might as well add that ebay took care of me twice when a buyer scammed me. I'm talk several hundred bucks too. One buyer used my item, no longer needed it, then claimed it was SNAD and mailed it to the wrong address. EBay refunded me after forcing me to refund them. Another returned my item smashed up, eBay refunded me after forcing me to refund the buyer.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:16 PM   #36
dingster1
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Reputable sellers are out there

Or just use a seller like Gazelle
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:29 PM   #37
Applejuiced
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Or just use a seller like Gazelle
Yes, but then you will receive about half of what you could get on ebay
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