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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:44 AM   #126
nuckinfutz
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Public Service Announcement:

Just upgraded my Navigon to version 2.3 and it now offers iCloud/Foursquare/Glympse support.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:36 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by dragje View Post
So, in order to get this right, right data is needed, Foursquare have proven that a lot of information is simply inaccurate so why integrate this? It's better to make 'or' a deal with Google themselves or use your own employees world wide to edit new correct information into Apple Maps. These things takes time and it's better to build it with the right source material then to rely on inaccurate data.
How many employees do you think Apple would need to build/curate/maintain, by hand, a location database that is up-to-date and accurate throughout the entire world on their own? It's a near impossible task without crowdsourcing. Even Google relies largely on users to maintain its database.

No location database is perfect, but Foursquare is the best out there in many parts of the world (certainly it's pretty good here in the UK). Probably second only to Google (and we know a deal with them isn't going to happen). Foursquare *is* pretty accurate, by nature. Its social aspect means that entries that are inaccurate quickly get corrected by its users.

This also doesn't mean that Maps will *only* use Foursquare locations - I suspect Foursquare, and perhaps other providers in the future, will be augmenting what Apple already have.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:03 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by CoMoMacUser View Post
I used it for several months. The merchant discounts are nice, but they're so few and far between. Aside from that, I'm not sure what the draw is. Do I really care where my friends are at any given moment? Do they care where I am? It's a pretty superfluous app when you think about, so I don't see a whole lot of value in having it integrated into iOS.
It is a SOCIAL GAMING APP. It doesn't have a "value". Exactly just like Gowalla. You use it to collect badges etc. I however have found their explore feature to be useful and actually found new restaurants with it.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:36 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by ziggyonice View Post
Finally.

Using Foursquare means user-generated content. It is MUCH more accurate than Yelp and is always up to date because the users ensure it is.

I love Foursquare. So happy to see this.

EDIT: FWIW, Foursqare was added to the App Store Hall of Fame this year.
I don't really know if it will be better though since Apple doesn't seem to be using all the Yelp data for some reason. There's tons of businesses where I live that are available on Yelp that don't show up in Apple Maps. If they're not using all the data it doesn't matter if they're using Yelp, Foursquare or something else.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 05:57 PM   #130
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Everyone wins when companies just play nice and help each other out. As long as they don't stagnate development etc.

The maps were a mistake but in the end everyone got something a little extra. We all want to see google up their game and apple respond it drives R&D forward. What we are sadly missing is someone who knows where the hell the tech is going to next, they both see a little headless with no next big product launch.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 06:05 PM   #131
dragje
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Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

If apple waited for it to be perfect it would never be released. Data constantly changes etc..
There is difference between a bridge on the map and a bridge leading cars straight over the cliff.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 06:26 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Reason077 View Post
How many employees do you think Apple would need to build/curate/maintain, by hand, a location database that is up-to-date and accurate throughout the entire world on their own? It's a near impossible task without crowdsourcing. Even Google relies largely on users to maintain its database.
I never stated that it would be easy. Near impossible? Google's app works fine. Like I said, Rome wasn't build in one day. The employees? Apple has thousand employees worldwide and it's possible, like Google did, to use techniques like mobiles photographing streets or make a 'better' deal with companies, those that can provide Apple with accurate data like TomTom (all ready been used for a part) or Navigon. Apple doesn't need to event the wheel here, there are sources out there that could help Apple in creating a useful and proper working map app.

Quote:
No location database is perfect, but Foursquare is the best out there in many parts of the world (certainly it's pretty good here in the UK). Probably second only to Google (and we know a deal with them isn't going to happen). Foursquare *is* pretty accurate, by nature. Its social aspect means that entries that are inaccurate quickly get corrected by its users.
Well, I prefer an app using maps as a navigation tool that's primarily based on how to get from A to B. Of course Foursquare could help but as I said before I don't have good experiences with it's locations. And as an user I don't feel much for signing up as some kind of "social contributor" to explain to a company that this bar isn't there. When I'm using a navigation tool I don't want to see nonsense with the excuse that it's still under construction and enabling me to write a report to fix it....

I also would dislike any kind of emblems I could get like in foursquare as if I'm some kind of important person because I got a label called Mayor on my *beep*ss.. Well you understand what I mean.

I don't say Foursquare would be a no no to use, but the main goal should be making a good solid working navigation tool and not bring something on the market that simply turns out to be a laughing matter. That's not the Apple I used to know. Even when using Foursquare wouldn't fix all the gaps then Apple should wait until it does before bringing it on the market.

And before you start writing that you can't put everything on the map just know this, there is a difference between not everything and entire streets so to speak.

Quote:
This also doesn't mean that Maps will *only* use Foursquare locations - I suspect Foursquare, and perhaps other providers in the future, will be augmenting what Apple already have.
Time will tell mate, let's hope it will be a solid app in the future, till that time I rely on Google Maps.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:30 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by jessica. View Post
Why, are all of the streets wrong?
There is an interstate extension that was completed in 2012; Google maps shows it. My 3 year old GPS maps does not (of course). Ergo, Google maps is hardly "outdated." Maybe it lacks the design that Apple maps does but here's a fun fact, I've yet to hear Google maps was dead wrong when showing a location of a building, park, interstate, etc.

I think Apple should step back, forget foursquare and ******** social media, and make their maps app something that we can be glad to use.
@jessica you too don't get it. Maybe your example got updated in 2012, but for what its worth today, we are in the end of 2012. I'm not about to debate when the street came about and captured in google maps.

You need to understand the use of crowd sourcing and the disruption apps such as WAZE. A street can be form today and when others report it, it is updated like the very next day. So to provide this as an explanation, when I 1st started using Waze, on private property, there were no roads. By the end of the week, there are roads now. Google maps may never get private roads mapped. Additionally Apple, Google, Tom Tom, & Garmin all fall way short. The lack of speaking street names, lane assist, or whichever way it displays or its POI, is just a function of each. Waze informs you of accidents, cops, road hazards, gas stations and many more USEFUL POI along your path and is ALWAYS updated... by the users.

Foursquare info can easily be integrated in something like this... then just become that much more powerful. Its just plain amazing that its free.

The only thing that google maps is good for imho is street view.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason077 View Post
You don't get it. Maps needs "foursquare and ******** social media" to be be competitive and useful.

Without crowd sourced data, Apple will never have the resources to make (and keep) Maps comprehensive and up-to-date.
@Reason077, haha. I read her response to mine. Then came across yours and I too said the same thing in a response to her, then read yours... made my day
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:12 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by AFPoster View Post
Well whatever happens it's not going to be tomorrow or this year. It's been a couple months and our Maps still hasn't been updated. Google Maps ftw!
You need to think of the app and the data separately, because they are. The app has not been updated, but the data has - I have already noticed POI additions.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 04:21 AM   #135
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Just something that I noticed: The satellite data for UK maps has improved an awful lot since maps was released first. There were huge areas in the south in awful quality; for example Brighton was awful, now the satellite images are perfectly fine. My previous home was in a huge area of very low quality, and that has been almost completely changed to decent quality images.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason077 View Post
How many employees do you think Apple would need to build/curate/maintain, by hand, a location database that is up-to-date and accurate throughout the entire world on their own? It's a near impossible task without crowdsourcing. Even Google relies largely on users to maintain its database.
The company that Apple got its Australian maps from says the have eight vehicles touring Australia constantly, and they claim it takes them eighteen months to cover the country and do one round of updating all the maps.

Yes, that could be improved by crowdsourcing. It would require the following things: 1. Pseudonymous submissions (for example using Apple ID) so that anyone who thinks it is funny to submit rubbish data can be excluded. 2. Feedback (an email when your submission is registered, an email when it is processed, an email when it becomes part of the maps or is rejected). 3. Rewards like some small credit on the app store for useful submissions.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 06:10 AM   #136
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See, a lot of users now simply don't care. Google Maps is back. Users again have maps that work. End of story.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:33 AM   #137
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You need to think of the app and the data separately, because they are. The app has not been updated, but the data has - I have already noticed POI additions.
10-4. I haven't seen a difference where I'm at and the cities I travel to - Atlanta, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Richmond to name a few. My iPhone takes me on the same dead end routes =/.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:56 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
As long as I have the choice to not send any data to them. I'm not a foursquare user for a reason.

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If apple waited for it to be perfect it would never be released. Data constantly changes etc

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For you no. But you are not everyone and everywhere. Some of us have been dealing with bad and never corrected info from Google for years.
Agreed. Sad that any gov agency can confirm your location at a given time by locating your cell phone geo-history.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:09 AM   #139
Reason077
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Just something that I noticed: The satellite data for UK maps has improved an awful lot since maps was released first. There were huge areas in the south in awful quality; for example Brighton was awful, now the satellite images are perfectly fine. My previous home was in a huge area of very low quality, and that has been almost completely changed to decent quality images.
Hmm. London's satellite images (in the 2D mode) are very dark. The resolution is pretty good, but because they're so dark and the contrast quite poor it's hard to clearly distinguish things. I'm hoping they'll fix it by running it through some kind of filter and brightening everything up. Google, Bing, and Nokia's "Here" all have better Satellite/Aerial imagery for London!

Quote:
The company that Apple got its Australian maps from says the have eight vehicles touring Australia constantly, and they claim it takes them eighteen months to cover the country and do one round of updating all the maps.
Presumably they're just talking about the street data here. Not a comprehensive database of every shop, business, landmark, etc.

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Originally Posted by dragje View Post
And as an user I don't feel much for signing up as some kind of "social contributor" to explain to a company that this bar isn't there.
Perhaps you're not interested in contributing. But if you were the owner of that bar, you might think differently.

With Apple Maps, unlike Google and Foursquare, there is currently no route to get your own location data added - even if it's your own location. Even Yelp apparently won't help, because much of what is in Yelp cannot be found in Apple Maps.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 02:05 PM   #140
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10-4. I haven't seen a difference where I'm at and the cities I travel to - Atlanta, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Richmond to name a few. My iPhone takes me on the same dead end routes =/.
why do you keep taking the same dead end routes? maps or no maps, you'd think you'd learn the routes the first time
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 03:20 PM   #141
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why do you keep taking the same dead end routes? maps or no maps, you'd think you'd learn the routes the first time
Fortunately I don't. I drive past the "wrong" turn every time with a smile on my face for learning the first time. I just hate that the maps aren't updated to show the correction.
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