Frustration on Air RAM upgrade and delivery times

jabalczar said:

I'm not 'mad' about anything. I'm raising two issues or 'frustrations' that I think Apple's otherwise excellent service could improve on.

1. Shipping times can be improved or made clearer.

2. Apple stores could carry more options for walk-in customers, especially as RAM is a very popular upgrade that is no longer user upgradeable, and that there are only two options for RAM (e.g. 4 or 8 GB)

Apple push the boundaries on every aspect of customer care and engineering, they always wish to better themselves. Shipping and the availability of machines can be improved. You can disagree with this, that's your choice. However, I'm sure Apple, in their quest for improvement, probably do not agree, and are not satisfied with being Joe Average, and would listen to customer feedback on their shipping times.

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Honestly (IMO), I think you are wrong on both accounts. I did get a MacBook Air 13" just a couple of months ago before the Back to School promotion ended and that is Apple's biggest couple months.

1. They are totally clear about ordering and shipping times. I actually got my MacBook Air 2 days earlier than quoted. It did take a full 3 days to process my order. The reason this happens because they have to solder the RAM on the mother boards. Anyways, I was given a tracking number after my MacBook Air was ready to be sent. I was also given an option to pre-sign for my delivery (which I did & gave instructions to the deliverer to drop the package at the front office). I then got my computer 3 days later (I'm located is Missouri).

You are completely stupid as a business man if you tell Apple they should keep in stock the 8GB models. The reasons? 1) Less than 10% sold get memory upgrades for this model, so the distribution of those wanting the upgraded model is less than that for a given area. 2) Storage area for other high margin products is taken away from for the stores. 3) Every updated model therein after will have costs of sending the product back to the warehouses.

All these combined will raise costs to Apple hence the reason why they will not stock the 8GB models.

2) Yes, they aren't user upgradeable any more as stated. Guess what? It cost me only $90 to decide whether I want 4GB or 8GB. Also, for MOST people the reason they go with the 4GB model is because Apple already does a great job with memory management on OS X and cause it's cheaper so again, why waste the space and money being in Apple's position? The reason being is that their Apple Stores only do a third of their revenue and that their online store retains most of the sales.

I'm sorry to say but there are major flaws in your argument considering a business perspective and logistics.

jabalczar said:

2. Apple stores could carry more options for walk-in customers, especially as RAM is a very popular upgrade that is no longer user upgradeable, and that there are only two options for RAM (e.g. 4 or 8 GB)

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I have not seen Apple's internal sales data, however same argument could be made for the i7 as that is a popular upgrade for some as well as the 256GB/512GB SSD being another popular upgrade. Unfortunately it is impossible for Apple to stock all the various BTO options/combos. Just not possible. They know the stock/base options sell the most. Just as you want 8GB RAM at the store, Joe Blow wants the i7 stocked and Susie Secretary wants the i7/512GB at the store. Continue that for the two sizes and across the rest of the Apple lineup and a store can't physically store all of that inventory. Not to mention what does able do with all of the premium stock of these BTO/upgraded builds when they aren't sold? They take a hit on their profit by having to put them on a big discount when the new model comes out.

The way Apple is doing it is fine. If you want a custom computer order and plan accordingly. If you need a computer for work make sure you have a backup or can borrow one. Or don't sell your old computer until the new one arrives.

jabalczar said:

Where are the figures for this breakdown of 10% sales on the 11-inch Air from?

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Great, I'm happy for you. That shipping experience sounds great. That's all I'm asking for too.

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One, sorry for calling you stupid. I get carried away when writing these sometimes.

I used to work for Apple in the retail stores so the numbers I've seen aren't publicly available. Most people who came to the store got the standard memory on all models of Mac (as that's what Apple carries in stock) and most people don't need the upgrades.

The nice thing about Apple, as employees we were encouraged to speak our minds about how store operations worked. I did ask about BTO & Apple's choice of stocking certain models (base models on website and a few with upgraded CPUs is what they normally stock). The managers didn't tell us specific numbers but from what we could see as employees very few did get memory upgrades (on possible upgradeable models).

Honestly, what it comes down to is stocking space which equates to money per square foot of area (which is a huge thing for Apple). Just when you ask a question such as that, what you said is absolutely right. It comes down to logistics of getting the right products, ones that will sell fast, into the customers hands. Just logistically it hurts their end goal (profits) to stock the 8GB models.

Also, just ship it to the place of residency. And pre-sign for the package.

53x12 said:

If you ordered today the MBA would arrive between Dec 28 and Jan 02. That is 9-12 business days. 1-3 of which will be used for packaging and getting ready to ship.

Ordering on Dec 06 and receiving today, you received your MBA in 7 business days. That is pretty damn good considering it spent 2 days being prepared for shipment.

Don't see how your product took longer than expected as you got it sooner than the 9-12 business days they probably quoted you at time of order. So I am confused what you are mad about and complaining over?

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That is why you do not order at the end of the week it just causes headaches!

I ordered an MBA 11" from B&H last week as a Chrsitmas gift.. Same, thing.. I needed the 8GB option.. I got the computer in 2 days flat..

Even though I had to pay $48 for shipping (UPS, as I'm outside of continental US) I got a free copy of Parallels (which was also needed for the gift recipient).

My order $1,398 total for a 2012 11" MBA 2.0 i7 / 8GB RAM / 128GB SSD (plus Parallels 8) with 2 day shipping included

"You are completely stupid as a business man if you tell Apple they should keep in stock the 8GB models. The reasons? 1) Less than 10% sold get memory upgrades for this model, so the distribution of those wanting the upgraded model is less than that for a given area. 2) Storage area for other high margin products is taken away from for the stores. 3) Every updated model therein after will have costs of sending the product back to the warehouses."

This comment is stupid - Less than 10% are likely upgraded because it takes longer to get your hands on one online than just buying at the store.

If I could walk into an Apple store and get one with a memory upgrade I would do it in a heartbeat. I have settled and purchased many base models (although wanting the memory upgrade) just to avoid ordering online. I suspect I am not alone.

Ordered my 13" 128GB MBA with RAM upgrade to 8GB 4 hours ago. Just got a a message saying it will be delivered tomorrow

I am in the UK and did not pay the £8 for express shipping.

webster69 said:

If I could walk into an Apple store and get one with a memory upgrade I would do it in a heartbeat. I have settled and purchased many base models (although wanting the memory upgrade) just to avoid ordering online. I suspect I am not alone.

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Okay, yes you aren't alone in this opinion, though you are still wrong. Apple knows their market and hence try to capitalize on this by stocking products that WILL be sold given a certain products life cycle.

The people that do want the upgraded memory aren't gathered together in one market for them. So you are telling Apple to ship an adequate supplies of your 8GB model to all markets. This causes Apple a raise in cost for shipping, loss of valuable retail space to stock other (more popular products) and lastly manufacturing cost.

You have to keep in mind how things are manufactured as well. The reason the 8GB model is BTO is because they have to switch parts on the assembly line causing them to create less 4GB models and hence reducing overall profit margins. This is one reason why Apple products are so expensive for BTO, that and Apple wants to keep it's profit margins on the product.

There is a reason why Apple waits so long to ship the 8GB models is because they wait X days gathering all the BTOs as they can in a reasonable time, then make the BTOs and ship them. After that, they build one set of BTOs, they wait until they get an adequate amount again because they go back to making the base model (the biggest profit margin for them because they are making MANY of ONE type of unit which reduces cost of manufacturing).

Basically you are telling Apple because very few people ask for the upgraded memory they should still just make these products and ship them to a store where all this does for Apple is increase their product diversification, increasing costs of production, increase shipping cost and lose valuable retail space.

It's ALL about maximizing PROFITS when considering manufacturing methods and costs. Hence why there is a BTO option. Get over it, us (ones desiring MORE) aren't the biggest money makers for Apple and that the standard Joe and the base models are.

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jabalczar said:

Due to the tax arrangements in the UK / Europe we face additional time if we wish to return the product within the 14 days period due to a fault etc. If bought BTO online, the item cannot be returned in store. It gets sent back to Apple Onlne which takes 7 - 9 days to process, then another 9 - 11 days to get a replacement BTO machine.

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Really? Here in America Apple Retail Stores will return BTOs and refund you. They cannot exchange for another BTO as the retail stores have no access to this.

Also, once you do get your BTO replacement it restarts the 14 day return policy.

^ Sounds more like an issue with UK/EU policies and not Apple themselves. Here in the USA Apple works very differently it sounds like.

knarzie said:

Ordered my 13" 128GB MBA with RAM upgrade to 8GB 4 hours ago. Just got a a message saying it will be delivered tomorrow

I am in the UK and did not pay the £8 for express shipping.

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It's arrived! Oh god, I love the smell of a new Mac!

jabalczar said:

Yep. Really. In the UK you cannot return a purchase made on the official Apple Store online to a physical Apple Store, whether the item is BTO or not.

If I buy a MacBook in the UK we pay between $200 - $ 800 tax on each machine depending on the model or spec. (none of which is Apple's fault)

For example, on the maxed out Retina 15-inch we pay a whopping $838 in tax.

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I knew that the taxes were rather high in the EU/UK. Though I guess that makes sense for what is going on with the taxes and return policy. That is rather unfortunate for your experience.

I also knew about the investigation into their taxes as the countries are not happy that some corporation have taken advantage of how the EU is setup.

Also, you said you had to return the fault MBA that was first delivered to you? I would have called AppleCare and had them express ship it back (they pay for it) and have them express ship the new one back. I would have made them have a new one in my hands within 3 days or I would have told them they would lose my business.

You know that's not your fault when you get a faulty product delivered and Apple should be more than willing to make it up to you by getting you the exchange product back to you as quickly as possible.

jabalczar said:

Thank you for your suggestion. They have expedited some of the deliveries on the return, though it still takes time:

The laptop was picked up 48 hours after me phoning them (made up of 24 hours waiting for the courier to call me, then waiting 24 hours for them to pick it up after they had called me). It arrived with Apple 24 hours later (72 hours total). They used a national courier service for that.

Then it takes 5 - 7 business days for the refund. Which, over here, means no refund until 4th of January at the earliest, but might be as late as the 8th January.

I asked for a refund as I've decided to jump up to the 13 -inch due to the palm rests digging into my hand, and that they have the 13 - inch in stock. They wouldn't do an exchange an 11 - inch for a 13 - inch with me paying the difference, it has to be a refunded.

If I waited for another 11-inch 8 GB it would take another 11 days to ship from China.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to purchase the new computer until I get a refund.

So I should get my new computer on the 9th January or so, I believe I placed my initial order on the 6th or 7th of December.

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That is outrageous. :/

Though I would have told Apple that I'm going to the nearest shipping company and paying myself to have next day delivery for the returns instead of waiting for the courier to call me. Then I would have Apple refund me the money and if they didn't like it they better get on board or I'd be raising hell.

I understand your frustration, though I am glad you see that the 13inch is the better option. I'm surprised Apple couldn't exchange the computer for you via the online store. Though again, it might come down to how the EU has the tax codes setup, again government getting in the way.

Also, 11 days to ship an exchange? I would tell them to go shove it up their ass but that's just me. I mean come on, you are the customer and they are not making this experience.

Lastly, the 13inch > 11inch.

jabalczar said:

Yep. 11 days. Because the 11-inch 8 GB RAM is BTO in China.

I can possibly understand some of the earlier posters saying that it's not reasonable for the physical stores to keep all configurations (though I still think the upgraded RAM should be in stock as users cannot upgrade themselves)

However, given that the UK is a large market, I would have thought they would have kept different configurations in stock centrally in country in a warehouse, so that 24 hour delivery is possible.

I don't see it changing any time soon. Lower end specs on the Airs (since late 2010) and on the lower end rMBP have never really been available with the RAM upgrade in country (i.e. the UK). That is a source of frustration. I had the exact same wait and issue with my 2010 13-inch Air which I upgraded the RAM from 2 GB to the then max of 4 GB.

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The only memory upgrades the Apple Stores are allow to do are on user upgradeable Macs. The problem is that the Airs have the memory built onto the motherboard.

They do have warehouses that store their products though it mainly has what the retail stores stock because that's where the products there are sent to. Even if you order a base model from the online store it would ship from China as Apple keeps a very close eye on their inventory.

Again, the reason they will never have any of the BTO configuration in a warehouse is because of space and money. That's sadly what it comes down to; money. Doing what you suggest raises costs though would be wonderful for customers.

jabalczar said:

That bit is not true in the context of the UK. You can order a number of base machines including the 11-inch & 13-inch Airs with the base RAM (4 GB), and they arrive at your house less than 24 hours after ordering. Sometimes as quick as 17 hours.

Until delivery closed off today for Christmas, I could have ordered an 11-inch base Air on Thursday late afternoon, and I would be typing on it right now (late afternoon Friday UK)

These all come from the Apple online store, and are shipped from the UK from a central location.

The issue is the RAM upgrade with some models, notably the 11-inch. (as well as the long return / refund times, and the inability to exchange an Apple online purchase in an Apple Store.)

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Ah, I was told most of them still come from China when ordering online in the US when I worked at the store as they try to keep tight control on inventory levels. Yes, I know that the problem lies within the memory upgrade. Anyways, hopefully it gets sorted out and you get your shinny new MBA soon!

Everything can be avoided with a little planning. Must-have-it-now generation too stressful,

jabalczar said:

I can possibly understand some of the earlier posters saying that it's not reasonable for the physical stores to keep all configurations (though I still think the upgraded RAM should be in stock as users cannot upgrade themselves)

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CPU also is not user upgradeable.

How many friends or family members have we heard that went from computer to computer when shopping and settled on the one that has the highest GHz? Unless they are well versed/experienced with computers, many times they don't care or even know what RAM, CPU design, SSD actually do. As a result, it only makes sense for Apple to stock the very base computers in the store as those are the ones that are most common. Most common because they are the lowest price. Lowest price always wins out for the common shopper.

I ordered a 13" with 8 GB on Thursday (Dec 20) around 11:00 PM....The item was delivered today (Dec 22 via FedEx). I am in Northern Virginia. The box shows that it was shipped from Pennsylvania. Apple must have stocked up on certain BTO configurations and had them sitting at distribution centers. Within an hour of ordering, it was already in the hands of FedEx. I wonder if they were staged at FedEx facilities?