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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:48 AM   #1
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Poor journalism? Not posting news that reflects Apple in a poor light.

(BEFORE I START: Please dont turn this thread into a Apple vs <competitor> thread)

Ok, hopefully without opening a can of worms, can I ask why MacRumors does this?

Today you've posted an article on the homepage about Samsung dropping the EU injunction request, knowing full well it'll create the usual 50 page thread of arguments from armchair experts.

At the same time, earlier today this happened: http://news.yahoo.com/judge-denies-a...044313478.html

Why did MacRumors not report on it?

It's not like its something that just slipped the net either, this happens all the time, and I know because I myself have submitted them numerous times, and they have never been posted.

It's coming across that you'll only post it if it makes Apples competitor (regardless of who it is) look bad.

To add to this, there's also the Google Maps story from yesterday, which you managed to turn from "Google Maps was installed on 1 in 10 iPhones within the forst 48 hours" into "Though 10 million is a significant number, it still represents just a fraction of iOS users. Only three days after iOS 6 was released on September 21"

The Google Maps and iOS comparison isn't just silly, its downright idiotic. Comparing an entire OS update (Which flags up as a notification on the handset) and an app installation, of which there was zero advertisement for, so your average joe wouldn't have heard about it very quickly.

Lets also not forget that the figures MacRumors quoted for iOS 6 downloads included iPod Touch and iPad. Given that the Google Maps app is iPhone only right now, and that its not something you'd probably want/need on an iPad or iTouch, it's a ridiculous jab at Google.

I'd like to hear what Juli Clover and Eric Slivka have to say about these two issues. It feels, sometimes like the two of these editors are die-hard Apple fans who feel they must twist a story to make it favor Apple, instead of being professional, and fair with their posts.

I'm not the only one who's noticed, what's coming across as pretty poor journalism:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...4&postcount=40
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...8&postcount=44
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...4&postcount=46
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...78&postcount=3
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...06&postcount=7
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...1&postcount=10
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...0&postcount=17
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...6&postcount=31
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...0&postcount=32
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...5&postcount=43
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...3&postcount=60

I could go on, but I dont fancy going through 12 pages.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:57 AM   #2
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We did cover the rest of the Samsung story late yesterday, although it was posted to the blog.

We typically try to limit our coverage of the patent battles and put some of it on the blog because there's so much of it and it's so tedious.

The point about Google Maps was that yes, it's an impressive number of downloads, but most users are still using Apple Maps at this point. It says something about both the need for Apple to continue to improve its Maps as rapidly as possible and how even a widely publicized app that by all accounts was highly demanded still has only a fraction of the user base.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:06 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by WildCowboy View Post
We did cover the rest of the Samsung story late yesterday, although it was posted to the blog.

We typically try to limit our coverage of the patent battles and put some of it on the blog because there's so much of it and it's so tedious.

The point about Google Maps was that yes, it's an impressive number of downloads, but most users are still using Apple Maps at this point. It says something about both the need for Apple to continue to improve its Maps as rapidly as possible and how even a widely publicized app that by all accounts was highly demanded still has only a fraction of the user base.
This site has goten away from rumors, and turned into an Apple PR site. So why not just take it the full mile and turn it into a true tech site. This is where the front page is headed.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:09 PM   #4
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When posting news, either the whole story should be given or none at all. Adding spins to the story to somehow show Apple in a good light and other companies in a bad light is why me and the OP are complaining about bad journalism.

Last edited by dalbir4444; Dec 18, 2012 at 12:19 PM.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
At the same time, earlier today this happened: http://news.yahoo.com/judge-denies-a...044313478.html

Why did MacRumors not report on it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildCowboy View Post
We did cover the rest of the Samsung story late yesterday, although it was posted to the blog.

We typically try to limit our coverage of the patent battles and put some of it on the blog because there's so much of it and it's so tedious.
As WildCowboy mentioned, it was reported on:

Quote:
Judge Koh denied a second motion (via AppleInsider), this one filed by Apple, requesting a U.S. ban on certain Samsung products. The motion was denied because Apple was not harmed by Samsung infringing on the patents.
Judge Koh Denies Juror Misconduct Claim in Samsung v. Apple
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:37 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dejo View Post
As WildCowboy mentioned, it was reported on:



Judge Koh Denies Juror Misconduct Claim in Samsung v. Apple
This article should either have been split into two different articles or have a better title to give a more complete picture.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:45 PM   #7
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I used to think that this site would shed more insight into news I find elsewhere in the world regarding all things Apple, but now it appears to just be pro-Apple. I don't like this trend, and as a result, one cannot take the "news" aspect of this site seriously.

It used to be that I'd hear about Apple news here FIRST, and now, it's delayed and skewed to favor Apple. It feels as if the editors find the news, and then have a meeting to discuss... "How are we going to spin this pro-Apple, or should we just bury it under another article so nobody finds it?" It comes out late or not at all, and if so, spun to favor Apple. It's not right.

I like this site, and I have friends I enjoy, some who contribute to the site as I do, and others that do not... but this sort of thing is a prime example of why those that DO contribute (financially or otherwise) to this site... sometimes leave and take their money and knowledge with them.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:00 PM   #8
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I hadn't thought of MR's articles as overly pro-Apple. Of course, I used to read MacDailyNews. If you want to see ridiculously pro-Apple articles, you can find them there.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:06 PM   #9
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I hadn't thought of them that way either, until recently. Things have changed, and it's obvious in my opinion.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:13 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by wonderspark View Post
I hadn't thought of them that way either, until recently. Things have changed, and it's obvious in my opinion.
I should have stated that in my first post really - it is only recently that it's started happening, and it's highly noticeable.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to put MacRumors down here. I just think this needs addressing as it's getting pretty silly now.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:15 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dalbir4444 View Post
This article should either have been split into two different articles or have a better title to give a more complete picture.
I agree with that...probably the latter, since as I said we try to limit lawsuit coverage where we can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderspark View Post
It used to be that I'd hear about Apple news here FIRST, and now, it's delayed and skewed to favor Apple. It feels as if the editors find the news, and then have a meeting to discuss... "How are we going to spin this pro-Apple, or should we just bury it under another article so nobody finds it?" It comes out late or not at all, and if so, spun to favor Apple. It's not right.
This is of course not true, but I do find it interesting to hear considering that there hasn't been an intentional shift in anything we've been doing.

There isn't any intentional pro-Apple spin put on things, and we in fact try to be balanced in our reporting. That's exactly what we did with the Google Maps story...10 million is a great number, and yet still it's a small fraction of all iOS 6 users.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:51 PM   #12
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How other news sites handled the same news:

CNN
Reuters video and text version.
Los Angeles Times
Wall Street Journal
The Verge

I saw this news EVERYWHERE before MacRumors as well, meaning MR had more time to get it right, but failed to do so.

We all know that the people who run a website can and will do as they see fit, but what's being pointed out here is that people are noticing a difference in how things are handled. I'm sure most people love it, don't care or don't notice, but I think the point of this thread is to draw some attention to the accountability factor, and question the integrity of the way "news" is reported.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 02:03 PM   #13
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I'll point out that in the example of the LA Times, they did a similar move as MR, in combining two stories in one article, but at least they put the other piece of news directly below the main headline, not buried late in the article.

The Verge also combined news pieces, but linked the other story, providing an entire other separate article to read.

I think someone tried to behave like an actual journalist, but couldn't reign in their bias. Or, perhaps it was an honest mistake. Point being, it was a mistake.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 02:09 PM   #14
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Point noted.

I'll also mention that we are currently breaking in two new writers. That's not to throw them under the bus or anything, as we think they're doing excellent work, but it's taking all of us a little bit of time to adjust.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 02:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildCowboy View Post
There isn't any intentional pro-Apple spin put on things, and we in fact try to be balanced in our reporting. That's exactly what we did with the Google Maps story...10 million is a great number, and yet still it's a small fraction of all iOS 6 users.
I don't want to get too deeply involved because as an editor myself, I know how hard it is but this was just so conspicuous to me: Not everyone uses maps at all on their phone, so I understand that it sounds belittling to say "it's just a fraction". I haven't used maps at all since I installed iOS 6 and I've only used it a handful of times during my three years of an iPhone owner.

I think it's just a bit too far-fetched conclusion to think that "most users are sticking Apple Maps" because not every single iOS 6 user has downloaded Google's Maps.

EDIT: Just noticed your post above. It definitely takes time to adjust, I can speak from experience. I hope people can provide constructive criticism (like in this thread) because ultimately that's what helps you the most (well, at least it helped me, the point being that it's constructive and not bashing).
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 02:23 PM   #16
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http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...8&postcount=55

In this post, MuddyPaws1 points out the same problem, and Digital Skunk replies, "True. That puts Apple in a bad light though, and I can understand if MRs won't post it. Besides, folks will spin whatever notions in their head to make it seem like it's not that big of a deal."

Just goes to show that at a minimum, some people have come to expect that MacRumors is biased enough to NOT report news that makes Apple look bad.

To me, that is a problem. Not a monumental, earth-shattering problem, but MR should take it seriously, and consider who they want to be.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildCowboy View Post
Point noted.

I'll also mention that we are currently breaking in two new writers. That's not to throw them under the bus or anything, as we think they're doing excellent work, but it's taking all of us a little bit of time to adjust.
I'm actually aware of the new writers, and I understand what you're saying. The feedback aspect of this thread is performing as intended, given the new awareness and discussion!

----------

Quote:
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I think someone tried to behave like an actual journalist, but couldn't reign in their bias. Or, perhaps it was an honest mistake. Point being, it was a mistake.
I take back my use of the word 'actual' here. I think that sounds unkind, and would like to rephrase it. I think someone tried to behave like a seasoned, professional journalist, but let their bias cloud their performance. I want the criticism to be positive.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 02:24 PM   #17
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I think it's just a bit too far-fetched conclusion to think that "most users are sticking Apple Maps" because not every single iOS 6 user has downloaded Google's Maps.
Yes, I agree.

The most interesting thing is that even when an app has as much public notice and awareness as Google Maps had, it's still only appearing on a fraction of iOS devices so far.

What it really demonstrates is how much of an advantage built-in apps have...even a highly publicizied and much-demanded App Store can't possibly compete with "built-in".

That's of course not a surprise, but it's still interesting to see what kind of share an app with such momentum behind it can actually get.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 02:27 PM   #18
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Yes, I agree.

The most interesting thing is that even when an app has as much public notice and awareness as Google Maps had, it's still only appearing on a fraction of iOS devices so far.

What it really demonstrates is how much of an advantage built-in apps have...even a highly publicizied and much-demanded App Store can't possibly compete with "built-in".

That's of course not a surprise, but it's still interesting to see what kind of share an app with such momentum behind it can actually get.
I just met two people in a car dealership yesterday that were complaining about Apple Maps. They had no idea there was a new Google Maps for iOS 6. Of course, I told them, and they were more than a little thrilled. It made me happy.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 04:52 PM   #19
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blah blah blah patent law here patent law there

I would actually prefer 90% of patent posts to be in the side bar not as front page news. The only exception when sums of $ actually have exchanged hands. All I see now in MR front page 80% of the time are patent news.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:08 PM   #20
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I see perhaps two out of the 20 most recent front page posts that are dealing with patent/trademark issues. And I think many people would agree that the Android "iPhone" one from Brazil is a rather interesting story.

We actually try fairly hard to keep lawsuit news to a minimum. A fair amount of what we publish does go on the blogs, and there's a heck of a lot of it that we skip entirely.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:34 PM   #21
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I see perhaps two out of the 20 most recent front page posts that are dealing with patent/trademark issues. And I think many people would agree that the Android "iPhone" one from Brazil is a rather interesting story.

We actually try fairly hard to keep lawsuit news to a minimum. A fair amount of what we publish does go on the blogs, and there's a heck of a lot of it that we skip entirely.
I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not every story is posted, but they *are* questioning how the stories are posted in respect to a clear pro-Apple bias versus unbiased journalism. That is the issue.

Since it wouldn't appear that any corrections will be made to articles already posted, it remains to be seen if things will change moving forward.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 06:01 PM   #22
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Let's see what kind of spin we are getting with this latest turn of events:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...-with-samsung/
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:49 PM   #23
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Let's see what kind of spin we are getting with this latest turn of events:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...-with-samsung/
How's this?:

USPTO Preliminarily Rejects Apple's 'Pinch-to-Zoom' Patent
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:23 PM   #24
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Just to head this off, I have been extremely skeptical that Google Maps had some rapid effect on an iOS 6 adoption rate and thought that the MoPub data showing a 29% increase was absurd.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/20/...t-google-maps/

I do not know any "normal" iOS users (who make up 95% of the user base) who held off on the iOS 6 upgrade because of Maps. Plenty of them complained, but in the end, they have gotten over it.

Much like Antennagate, I think much of the fuss on this was from the media and tech elite, not the actual user base. The Maps controversy is well on its way to blowing over.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 05:01 PM   #25
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The Maps controversy is well on its way to blowing over.
and not a moment too soon!


I dream of a day when the patent wars will be over...

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