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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:21 AM   #351
nia820
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Originally Posted by Arumik View Post
Google is all about tracking their users while Apple is about serving their users.
LOL! Are you serious? Apple is just as bad. Big brother is all around us. Every tech company tracks its users.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:04 AM   #352
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Of course Google is winning because Google and its partners are more innovative, while Apple is stalling and barely catching up. I bet if Apple put a blinking LED on the front of the iPhone to blink when you have a missed/text like the Galaxy S3 does, Apple Fanbois would sing and praise Apple and call it groundbreaking.
IOS already provides this by having the flashlight of the camara blinck whenever there a call or a mail.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:16 AM   #353
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IOS already provides this by having the flashlight of the camara blinck whenever there a call or a mail.
You know what he meant. That "feature" on iOS is through accessibility. The OP meant that many other phones have a light (on the front - you know - where if your phone is face up it actually works) that indicates a various of alerts. And many phones have various colors based on which alert.

Last edited by maflynn; Dec 17, 2012 at 02:29 PM. Reason: clean up
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:18 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Arumik View Post
Google is all about tracking their users while Apple is about serving their users.

So, by selling cheap phone and open sourced Android, manufacturers can build products base on it with low R&D cost, helping google to distribute the OS as much as possible and ultimately be tracking everyone's behavior that's using these electronics. And by using cross referencing of the personal data, content analytic and image recognition of the data collected from these devices and services, google can someday know more about you than your parents. Or should i say, they already did?
You've clearly forgotten how Apple and Google had to meet before congress and answer on why they were tracking users of their mobile phones.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:51 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
Most of you here seem to miss an important point. You can be an Apple fan all you like (I'm not the least of them), but you have to recognize that the iPhone is simply playing too much on the "convenience" factor.

As much as I like Apple, I may simply get a Nexus 4 (that's supposed to be the best Android device so far) because the iPhone is grossly overpriced. I'm not kidding, just compare the latest iPod Touch with the iPhone 4S: same chip, same memory, same screen. Camera is better on the iPhone, though, and only the iPhone has cellular capability.

But the price difference is just too much: $299 for the iPod Touch (that's already a big premium, even for a finely engineered audio player), $599 for the iPhone 4S. I won't trust anyone telling that just cellular capability literally doubles the MSRP.

So Nexus 4 I may well go, since it's "only" $359, even is storage is half (16GB).
This "overpriced" argument is really old. You pay more for Apple because of the attention to detail they pay in the design and function of the hardware, the software and most importantly: the extremely strong software/device ecosystem that all work together better than ANY other software platform available.

It's only overpriced if you can't afford it
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:57 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by chorner View Post

It's only overpriced if you can't afford it
Bah. That's a crap statement. I know plenty of people who don't give a damn about spending money who still think things (like phones, other electronics, etc) are overpriced.

It's not a question of affordability that determines whether you think something is overpriced. It's value. If you don't see or perceive value - then something is overpriced (to that person)
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:08 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
And very very happy with my Note2. Yes it's big. And fast and flexible.
Have had 3 generations of iPhone and for now I'm done with iOS.
I do have to admit that Samsung's Kies is a POS but doubletwist is very nice.

Apple had better pay attention or I think they will be a footnote.
I hope they do pay attention as competition makes for better toys.

IMO Apple's iphone is rapidly headed in the direction of RIM if they don't keep up.


Some of these posts in this thread are.....um....embarrassing.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:40 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by chorner View Post
This "overpriced" argument is really old. You pay more for Apple because of the attention to detail they pay in the design and function of the hardware, the software and most importantly: the extremely strong software/device ecosystem that all work together better than ANY other software platform available.

It's only overpriced if you can't afford it
If you had read the statement and actually understood it, you would have seen the comparison point isn't the Bill Of Materials. There's no 400$ worth of additional attention to detail in an iPhone compared to an iPod touch.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:04 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Ubuntu View Post
Now that's a bit close-minded. Android has come a long way. I use both iOS and Android in my daily life and while I still prefer iOS there are many things I like about my Nexus 4. The OS it's running is far from crud.
I had a Samsung Galaxy SIII and it worked well, but I had a lot of problems with Chrome, so not all things are crud, just that Android is really only on mobile phones, very few tablets are being sold compared to iOS and they really do not make an OS for Desktops or laptops.

I agree, maybe some clarification was needed, also tired of analysts comparing Android to iOS, you can't compare it, Android is on many different MFG sets and many version, iOS is on like 3-4 Apple phones, and maybe like 2-3 versions, just like comparing Windows to Apple OSX, Windows is on Dell, HP, Sony, etc many versions on many different units, but Apple sells their own Hardware and Software. Wait until Apple pushes to all the carriers, and multiple phones, Android will start to lose it's share of the Pie.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:09 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
If you had read the statement and actually understood it, you would have seen the comparison point isn't the Bill Of Materials. There's no 400$ worth of additional attention to detail in an iPhone compared to an iPod touch.
The problem with your argument is that the bill of materials has little to do with the price Apple decides to charge. The fact that the BOM for a Microsoft Office CD is a couple bucks, doesn't mean they shouldn't charge a couple hundred.

A product may be overpriced for you based on your own needs and finances, but to generalize that is just silly. The goal in pricing is to maximize profits while finding a balance between supply and demand. It's hard to argue that Apple isn't doing a pretty good job of that.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:00 PM   #361
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Ok, to sets things clear, I won't run Chrome, period. Probably Firefox or Opera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
A product may be overpriced for you based on your own needs and finances, but to generalize that is just silly. The goal in pricing is to maximize profits while finding a balance between supply and demand. It's hard to argue that Apple isn't doing a pretty good job of that.
I'm not generalizing. I'm staying within Apple's ecosystem and comparing Apples with Apples, so to speak. The convenience factor may justify the $130 added to a 3G iPad compared to a WiFi-only iPad. But not double the price between the iPod Touch and the iPhone. My needs are general, but would find a bit silly to buy an iPod Touch when so many applications require internet connectivity, that it's so hard to find in the city, and that I need a decent cell modem anyway.

There's no $400 worth of additional attention to details or convenience factor in an iPhone compared to an iPod Touch.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:05 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
Ok, to sets things clear, I won't run Chrome, period. Probably Firefox or Opera.
Run Chromium then. It's the same thing, but without all the OMG Google is Big Brother olol analytic features.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
There's no $400 worth of additional attention to details or convenience factor in an iPhone compared to an iPod Touch.
That's what they want to charge for it, and people are willing to pay it. What more reason do they need?

I have a friend who does woodworking. He'll sell a cabinet for $700 made out of $100 worth of material. Do you think that's unfair?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:47 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Run Chromium then. It's the same thing, but without all the OMG Google is Big Brother olol analytic features.

----------



That's what they want to charge for it, and people are willing to pay it. What more reason do they need?

I have a friend who does woodworking. He'll sell a cabinet for $700 made out of $100 worth of material. Do you think that's unfair?
I won't run Chromium either. Doesn't sync with anything I use.

No, it's not unfair to sell it for $700 even if it costs $100 in materials. His workmanship has to be taken into account, finish, design, etc. But it would be too expensive and, well, unfair for the consumer if he made one model for $700 with, say, swing door, and another one for $1500 with sliding doors. Almost identical yet double price, and certainly no practical justification.

I believe that most of you North Americans don't get to see the real price of an iPhone when you're locked into 2 or 3-year contracts heavily subsidizing the phone. Since you're used to 3-year contracts, I think all manufacturers exaggeratedly inflated their handset prices compared to what it would have been in a truly free market, much as the airline tickets prices. Apple promised to change the wireless industry, but on this particular point, they didn't. Many, if not most people wouldn't be willing to shell out $700 for a glorified iPod Touch if they saw its real price.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:50 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
If you had read the statement and actually understood it, you would have seen the comparison point isn't the Bill Of Materials. There's no 400$ worth of additional attention to detail in an iPhone compared to an iPod touch.
The Galaxy S3 is comparable or even more expensive than the iPhone 5.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:02 PM   #365
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The Galaxy S3 is comparable or even more expensive than the iPhone 5.
Thanks for the tip. Now the S3 is off-list. The Nexus 4 is "only" $400, though, after taxes. Does it makes it less powerful than an S3?
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:39 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
If you had read the statement and actually understood it, you would have seen the comparison point isn't the Bill Of Materials. There's no 400$ worth of additional attention to detail in an iPhone compared to an iPod touch.
Huh? You don't think the better screen, faster CPU and graphics, and the fact that it's also a cell phone doesn't warrant the extra price?

I'd love for your world to be reality, I really would Cubytus... sorry, but you're not appearing as bright as the ego in your posts might suggest you think you are.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 08:23 AM   #367
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Huh? You don't think the better screen, faster CPU and graphics, and the fact that it's also a cell phone doesn't warrant the extra price?

I'd love for your world to be reality, I really would Cubytus... sorry, but you're not appearing as bright as the ego in your posts might suggest you think you are.
Have you held an iPod Touch before yet? iPhone 4S = iPod Touch. Same screen, CPU, RAM, GPU. Added LTE chip and better camera. That's it. Yes for extra price, not for double+ price.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:36 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
Have you held an iPod Touch before yet? iPhone 4S = iPod Touch. Same screen, CPU, RAM, GPU. Added LTE chip and better camera. That's it. Yes for extra price, not for double+ price.
Not sure if you are going with the misinformation on purpose, but most of that is not true. The iPhone has a better CPU, GPU, and camera. It also has a digital compass, proximity sensor, and ambient light sensor. Better battery life. Earpods come with case, remote, and microphone. Power adapter. GPS.

EDIT: The iPhone 5 also doubles the RAM of the iPod touch.

I'm sure I missed some other stuff.

But, again, none of that has to do with how much it should be priced. Price is about what people are willing to pay in order to sell it at the volume you want. Yes, carrier subsidies do make the iPhone worth more! It's part of the value.

Last edited by BaldiMac; Dec 18, 2012 at 10:12 AM.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:08 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Dwalls90 View Post
There are some great non-iOS smartphones out there, but just because the 20,000 new Android models keep an edge on the single iPhone model every year, doesn't mean that's the reason for it being the better product.

Same logic could be applied to Windows and OS X.
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That's like Hyundai bragging about selling more cars than Rolls Royce.....

I'm not saying iOS is a Rolls Royce, but c'mon Eric, be real here.
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Originally Posted by impulse462 View Post
Famous saying: "quality not quantity"

Apple is trying to make the best smartphone hardware and software
Google is trying to sell as many ads to people as they can, through android devices.

There's the difference.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy stock android...but their goal is not to make the best smartphone, it's just to sell ads.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:39 PM   #370
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Bah. That's a crap statement. I know plenty of people who don't give a damn about spending money who still think things (like phones, other electronics, etc) are overpriced.

It's not a question of affordability that determines whether you think something is overpriced. It's value. If you don't see or perceive value - then something is overpriced (to that person)
Clearly you are mistaken since Apple is selling ***** load of phones. Its a simple matter of priority. Most people i know can afford and like to pay extra for the convenience of having things simple. Also the phone is on their main priority list.
I can also think my iPhone5 cost a bit to much compared to my Galaxy S3 LTE (yes i have both) but then again i pay for what chorner mentioned. The ecosystem and attention to detail is priceless.
You could also argue that Ferrari is to expensive compared to a toyota but guess what.....
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:46 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by vampyren View Post
Clearly you are mistaken since Apple is selling ***** load of phones. Its a simple matter of priority. Most people i know can afford and like to pay extra for the convenience of having things simple. Also the phone is on their main priority list.
I can also think my iPhone5 cost a bit to much compared to my Galaxy S3 LTE (yes i have both) but then again i pay for what chorner mentioned. The ecosystem and attention to detail is priceless.
You could also argue that Ferrari is to expensive compared to a toyota but guess what.....
Explain to me how I'm mistaken. You quoted me and then went off on your own tangent/definition.

Are you saying that perceived value has nothing to do with whether or not is overpriced or not to an individual? Really?
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 02:04 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
Have you held an iPod Touch before yet? iPhone 4S = iPod Touch. Same screen, CPU, RAM, GPU. Added LTE chip and better camera. That's it. Yes for extra price, not for double+ price.
LOL, i work with mobile platforms so i seriously wonder if you know anything about making a phone? Adding a modem into the mix is a HUGE HUGE task in itself! I wont even go into detail but most people dont seem to understand the sheer amount of work that goes into making a phone, not to mention something as beautiful as a iphone5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQSyqoziHvU

Then you have all the software cost .......

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Explain to me how I'm mistaken. You quoted me and then went off on your own tangent/definition.

Are you saying that perceived value has nothing to do with whether or not is overpriced or not to an individual? Really?
Ok let me explain again in simple words If iPhone was really overpriced people would not buy it and since apple is extremely successful then it can not be overpriced. Most people must find something valuable in the iphone since they are willing to pay for it. I'm sure the millions of people who buy iPhone are not stupid.
If you think its expensive maybe a cheaper android model can be enough. For me i want my news, books, all the sync, photo, video etc handled simply through itunes and my macbook pro. Only iphone manages to do it in the way i want so the extra cost is worth it for me.

"You quoted me and then went off on your own tangent/definition."
No i did not. My definition is the same as millions of others and what you can not understand since you think everyone think like you. I dont say i'm right and you are wrong here only that people prefer different things and have different values.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:32 AM   #373
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Ok let me explain again in simple words
Why are you "arguing" ? You both share the same position. "Overpriced" is determined by individual's perceived value and thus not really applicable to an overall generalistic determination.

You're both saying the same thing, stop the back and forth.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:33 AM   #374
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Could it possibly be because you can simply copy an mp3 track to it and play it?
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 01:32 AM   #375
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Why are you "arguing" ? You both share the same position. "Overpriced" is determined by individual's perceived value and thus not really applicable to an overall generalistic determination.

You're both saying the same thing, stop the back and forth.
Both yes and no
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