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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:16 AM   #276
jrswizzle
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
What about all your purchases on iTunes. Not match - iTunes.

So iOS is a baked in cost for Apple so it's not free. But Android is just free. The ability to rationalize is fantastic.

Anyone who thinks that Apple is any less interested in your anonymous data than Google is deluding themselves. The fact that Apple isn't nearly as successful at it doesn't mean they haven't been trying.

And as I said before - Google isn't the company you should be worrying about. Go read up on the company Axciom.
That's not true - both Google and Apple make money in different ways, each of which is quite obvious. Apple charges premiums on their devices for two reasons, (1) to keep their products in the "high-end" class status and (2) to MAKE MONEY. For Apple, its all about making money off of the hardware - sure they make a tidy amount on the app store, and iTunes and such, but the percentage is miniscule compared to the amount they make off of iPhones, iPads and Macs.

Google on the other hand charges what it costs them to make their devices. So how does the company stay in business? Even though we all would love for a company to simply give products away and not profit, that's not the way the world or business works. They get their profits from somewhere (and they are doing pretty well for themselves I might add) - they get them from advertising and information they gather from their user base.

Anyone who can't see THIS is delusional.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:17 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by TXCherokee View Post
iTunes Match has worked flawlessly for me. I'd be interested to know what issues others are having.
useless on my iPhone, useless on my iPad, album covers disappear, randomly uploads instead of matches, matches wrong version (clean or instrumental!)

i only use it to upgrade my songs basically
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:26 AM   #278
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Google Music is great, I would gladly pay to have more than 20,000 songs. I have to pick and choose what all I want to upload to there. When it was first released it did take days to upload every song though
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:29 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post

Google on the other hand charges what it costs them to make their devices. So how does the company stay in business? Even though we all would love for a company to simply give products away and not profit, that's not the way the world or business works. They get their profits from somewhere (and they are doing pretty well for themselves I might add) - they get them from advertising and information they gather from their user base.

Anyone who can't see THIS is delusional.
Google's share of the Android hardware market is what? Compared to Samsung and others who are making a profit off their devices?

p.s. it seems that some want to condemn Google for being very successful at something Apple has (to date) failed at (advertising). Not from a lack of trying.

Again - different models. Google also makes money from subscriber services. It's not just advertising.

What really needs to stop is all garbage from people who keep insisting Apple cares more about their customers than Google and that to Google you're just a product vs Apple where you are a customer. Both companies see you as $ signs. Period. They have a different (and seemingly successful) way of plucking those green (or other colors in other countries) bills out of your wallet - but they are no different.

The other thing that really needs to stop is the whole Google sells your personal info, etc. That's garbage. Apparently very few read ToS and/or EULAs from both companies. It's just SO much easier to make stuff up or regurgitate what others say without researching it, right? Unfortunately - it just makes those people look incredibly ignorant.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:35 AM   #280
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Google Play is a mess.
1) It matches the wrong songs
2) Gives me the wrong album covers
3) Gives me blank album covers
4) I can't edit album covers, I try to change it and it does nothing
5) Splits up albums into two
6) Combines two unrelated albums into one

It's not ready for prime time.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:35 AM   #281
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Funny how most comments is this thread are about people wanting to ditch apple for Google and Amazon.

I'd say, in all the years I've been an apple user and a member of this forum, this is really the first time I actually believe you guys! I don't know what's happening with Apple these days but they seem to be losing the popular vote. Google is clearly not Microsoft and certainly not the competitor Apple was hoping for.

tough...
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:37 AM   #282
samcraig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satchow View Post
Google Play is a mess.
1) It matches the wrong songs
2) Gives me the wrong album covers
3) Gives me blank album covers
4) I can't edit album covers, I try to change it and it does nothing
5) Splits up albums into two
6) Combines two unrelated albums into one

It's not ready for prime time.
Your experience. So far - none of the above has happened with my collection.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:41 AM   #283
jrswizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Google's share of the Android hardware market is what? Compared to Samsung and others who are making a profit off their devices?

p.s. it seems that some want to condemn Google for being very successful at something Apple has (to date) failed at (advertising). Not from a lack of trying.

Again - different models. Google also makes money from subscriber services. It's not just advertising.

What really needs to stop is all garbage from people who keep insisting Apple cares more about their customers than Google and that to Google you're just a product vs Apple where you are a customer. Both companies see you as $ signs. Period. They have a different (and seemingly successful) way of plucking those green (or other colors in other countries) bills out of your wallet - but they are no different.

The other thing that really needs to stop is the whole Google sells your personal info, etc. That's garbage. Apparently very few read ToS and/or EULAs from both companies. It's just SO much easier to make stuff up or regurgitate what others say without researching it, right? Unfortunately - it just makes those people look incredibly ignorant.
Why would you say Apple has to-date failed at advertising? They spend much less on it than Samsung (especially this past year) and I would say their ads are much nicer and more product centered than Samsung's.... *EDIT* - I re-read your post and came to the conclusion you could also be speaking about in-app advertising and such....which I am personally glad Apple hasn't really pushed on....None of Apple's online services feature advertisements (iCloud.com, apple.com)

Also, weren't we just talking about how Google's services are all free? So where do they make money on subscriber services?

I've dealt with customer service from both companies. Both were fine. Though I much prefer going in person to an Apple store than talking over the phone with a Google employee. Though I don't fault Google for that - just my preference.

But ya know what also needs to stop? This "Apple is greedy and evil" while Google is "for the people and good" narrative. As you said, both see customers as $$$ (as any business does) and both are in the business of making money - otherwise they wouldn't survive. The differences lie in HOW they go about doing that.....which I think we agree on.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:48 AM   #284
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iAds - failure. Not from a lack of trying. Believe me - Apple would love to rake in even a small % of what Google does in this arena.

Are you really not familiar with the fact that Google charges business for branded corporate email? One example: http://www.google.com/enterprise/app...s/pricing.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
Why would you say Apple has to-date failed at advertising? They spend much less on it than Samsung (especially this past year) and I would say their ads are much nicer and more product centered than Samsung's.... *EDIT* - I re-read your post and came to the conclusion you could also be speaking about in-app advertising and such....which I am personally glad Apple hasn't really pushed on....None of Apple's online services feature advertisements (iCloud.com, apple.com)

Also, weren't we just talking about how Google's services are all free? So where do they make money on subscriber services?

I've dealt with customer service from both companies. Both were fine. Though I much prefer going in person to an Apple store than talking over the phone with a Google employee. Though I don't fault Google for that - just my preference.

But ya know what also needs to stop? This "Apple is greedy and evil" while Google is "for the people and good" narrative. As you said, both see customers as $$$ (as any business does) and both are in the business of making money - otherwise they wouldn't survive. The differences lie in HOW they go about doing that.....which I think we agree on.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:50 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by unobtainium View Post
Actually, no. I think Google's entire business model revolves around selling customer information to advertisers.
They simply don't do this. This must be the most commonly spread anti-Google FUD out there and it's 100% false.

They do not sell your information. They are selling advertising and any data the advertiser receives about respondents to those ads is anonymous, aggregated and not of a personal or identifying nature.

Dont want any personalised ads?

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...fdgfjilccfpfoe
https://www.google.com/settings/ads/...display_optout
http://www.aboutads.info/choices/

Check your ad profile: http://www.google.com/ads/preferences/

There is nothing personal or identifying in your ad profile, it's all very general and the advertisers aren't aware of why I was targeted or who I am.

Think of it like this, the advertiser tells Google which demographic they want to target and then Google provides them information on the demographic that actually responded. It's a feedback loop to more finely target the advertising and it's nowhere near as sinister or invasive as everyone loves to make out.

Last edited by SlCKB0Y; Dec 19, 2012 at 11:00 AM.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:58 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
iAds - failure. Not from a lack of trying. Believe me - Apple would love to rake in even a small % of what Google does in this arena.

Are you really not familiar with the fact that Google charges business for branded corporate email? One example: http://www.google.com/enterprise/app...s/pricing.html
But here's the thing - Apple may wish they could make the ad money Google does, but they don't because that isn't their business model. Their hardware is their moneymaker. Plain and simple.

No I was not familiar with Google's business services as I have not yet encountered a business who used them, nor am I in the market for business services.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:04 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Morshu9001 View Post
Bandwidth is set to become more expensive as time goes on while local storage becomes steadily, and quickly, cheaper.
Bandwidth is progressively getting *much* cheaper.

Last edited by SlCKB0Y; Dec 19, 2012 at 05:36 PM.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:05 AM   #288
samcraig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
But here's the thing - Apple may wish they could make the ad money Google does, but they don't because that isn't their business model. Their hardware is their moneymaker. Plain and simple.

No I was not familiar with Google's business services as I have not yet encountered a business who used them, nor am I in the market for business services.
No - they don't because their business model for Advertising pretty much makes it nearly impossible to use their iAd platform.

Again - I am sure Apple wanted to make a mint on Advertising. They just never figured out how (to date). And that's because they want to control too much in the process. So yes - it is their business model to control things so tightly. It's not their business model with a preference to making money on hardware vs what they might have with iAds. That's just how it's working out for them to date.

Not you - but there are some people here who (in my opinion) condemn Google for being successful when it comes to advertising.

If Apple had a runaway hit with iAds I wonder how these discussions would differ.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:07 AM   #289
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iTunes Match is as awful as Apple Maps, and they have the nerve to charge for it. Good job, Google. A product that works at a reasonable price (free).
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:08 AM   #290
samcraig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post

No I was not familiar with Google's business services as I have not yet encountered a business who used them, nor am I in the market for business services.
And my other point is that maybe you shouldn't say things like...

Google on the other hand charges what it costs them to make their devices. So how does the company stay in business? Even though we all would love for a company to simply give products away and not profit, that's not the way the world or business works. They get their profits from somewhere (and they are doing pretty well for themselves I might add) - they get them from advertising and information they gather from their user base.

Anyone who can't see THIS is delusional.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:09 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
Why would you say Apple has to-date failed at advertising?
I think that he is not talking about marketing but Apple advertising bussiness, iAds.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:11 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by jmcrutch View Post
Google can likely tell you more about you than you can tell yourself. Their algorithm can predict what you are searching for before you finish searching. I think this is fantastic computing. But it's also a little unnerving that they know every disease, birthday gift, movie, old girlfriend, and restaurant I've ever searched about.

And the answer is YES, I do care about it.
You can turn it all off easily:
http://support.google.com/accounts/b...n&answer=54048

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcrutch View Post
then they know very specifically that the search was performed by you. And they associate that search on their server with you forever.
... until you disable it/delete it as above.

Besides... "Google can"?!?! Google can't tell you anything. In this context it a search engine and any search history you are referring to will never be read by human eyes.

The way some people talk about Google you'd think they are talking about some sort of sentient being.

Google isn't self-aware ..... yet!

Last edited by SlCKB0Y; Dec 19, 2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:14 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
And my other point is that maybe you shouldn't say things like...

Google on the other hand charges what it costs them to make their devices. So how does the company stay in business? Even though we all would love for a company to simply give products away and not profit, that's not the way the world or business works. They get their profits from somewhere (and they are doing pretty well for themselves I might add) - they get them from advertising and information they gather from their user base.

Anyone who can't see THIS is delusional.
What percentage of their annual revenue comes from these business services versus their advertising and hardware and so forth?

I don't agree that Apple FIRST failed at iAds, then made money off of hardware as a "plan b".....They may have dabbled in iAds, but hardware has been the bread winner since their resurgence. If it ain't broke...ya know.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:16 AM   #294
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The burden of proof is on the accuser. Come on kid.
It's working like that for religion (like prove that god doesn't exist), I don't see any reason it won't work for this case
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:24 AM   #295
samcraig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
I think that he is not talking about marketing but Apple advertising bussiness, iAds.
Indeed.

Two interesting articles from earlier this year.

http://adage.com/article/digital/iad...sumers/151934/

And on how Apple targets their iAds (for the uninitiated)
http://adage.com/article/digital/iad...sumers/151934/

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
What percentage of their annual revenue comes from these business services versus their advertising and hardware and so forth?

I don't agree that Apple FIRST failed at iAds, then made money off of hardware as a "plan b".....They may have dabbled in iAds, but hardware has been the bread winner since their resurgence. If it ain't broke...ya know.
Can you just admit you just made crap up - that you didn't/don't know how Google makes all their money? I'd respect you more Sincerely.

I never said hardware was their plan B. I said they tried to create a new revenue stream - one they hopes would be incredibly successful (otherwise, why do it) - and they have failed so far. "Dabbled" ? Yeah - ok - you keep using words like that as if iAds was a hobby.

I don't have the stat you requested as to how much revenue Google makes from their business accounts. I'm sure you can research that on your own if you're interest. My only point was to illustrate that you were incorrect in your assertion.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:28 AM   #296
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Free? Wonder what the artists think about this?
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:29 AM   #297
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Free? Wonder what the artists think about this?
It's free for the user. Where did you read that artists weren't getting compensated?
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:30 AM   #298
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:38 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
I don't have the stat you requested as to how much revenue Google makes from their business accounts. I'm sure you can research that on your own if you're interest. My only point was to illustrate that you were incorrect in your assertion.
Advertising revenues made up 96% of Google's revenues in 2010 and 2011.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...260164d10k.htm
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:43 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by SlCKB0Y View Post
How many people actually know about this or do it?
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